Mandarin Oriental | 776 Boylston St | Back Bay

atlantaden said:
So, only the hotel has been sold? The condo's remain as Mandarin? Boston almost was one of a few world cities with two Mandarin's.
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Usually condos at hotels are carefully named to avoid being called condos at ... (regardless of how they are popularly referred). Their deeds usually guarantee luxury hotel service, but not a particular hotel brand. The Mandarin lawyers surely anticipated this issue and carefully drafted the documents to assure that they don't have condos named after a hotel it no longer runs.
 
navigator4 said:
Usually condos at hotels are carefully named to avoid being called condos at ... (regardless of how they are popularly referred). Their deeds usually guarantee luxury hotel service, but not a particular hotel brand. The Mandarin lawyers surely anticipated this issue and carefully drafted the documents to assure that they don't have condos named after a hotel it no longer runs.
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The Boston real estate community and press certainly refer to the condos as the Mandarin Oriental Condos

http://www.firstbostonrealty.com/mandarin-boston-condos.shtml

I hope that the Mandarin is anticipating lawsuits. A hotel brand downgrade, even if "allowed" in the condo docs, is going to cause material depreciation of the condo values.

Mandarin Oriental is in the top 10 luxury hotel brands worldwide, as rated by Forbes in September 2015. CNN and Travel and Leisure also put Mandarin Oriental in the top 10. Neither of the Hilton brands are in the top 10 of any of those rating lists.
 
Is there any info on vacancy rates at the Mandarin? Maybe that's why they're selling this location? Maybe this downgrade could be a good thing for Boston's crunched hotel market overall. More affordable rooms could help alleviate some of the high demand for moderate priced rooms, for people that might have been formerly priced out of the Mandarin.
 
datadyne007 said:
Is there any info on vacancy rates at the Mandarin? Maybe that's why they're selling this location? Maybe this downgrade could be a good thing for Boston's crunched hotel market overall. More affordable rooms could help alleviate some of the high demand for moderate priced rooms, for people that might have been formerly priced out of the Mandarin.
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A friend who works there says that the Mandarin is pretty consistently near fully booked. And it is usually regulars who come many times per year. I don't think the high end hotel market is hurting in Boston. Four Seasons would not be building the tower if it was.

We really have a total hotel room capacity issue at all price points.

UPDATE: I just did a quick, non-scientific check for the next two nights on Booking.com, pretty much the hotel mega site. 50% of the hotels in Downtown Boston are sold out tonight and tomorrow night, including the Mandarin. Another 25% of the hotels have only 1-3 rooms left. And this is mid-December! Not exactly the prime travel month for Boston. For example you can still get into the Four Seasons or the Ritz for $700 per night.
 
datadyne007 said:
Is there any info on vacancy rates at the Mandarin? Maybe that's why they're selling this location? Maybe this downgrade could be a good thing for Boston's crunched hotel market overall. More affordable rooms could help alleviate some of the high demand for moderate priced rooms, for people that might have been formerly priced out of the Mandarin.
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If you read some of the articles it's the Irish government selling off the asset of a failed bank. There is no indication the hotel isn't making money.
 
datadyne007 said:
Is there any info on vacancy rates at the Mandarin? Maybe that's why they're selling this location? Maybe this downgrade could be a good thing for Boston's crunched hotel market overall. More affordable rooms could help alleviate some of the high demand for moderate priced rooms, for people that might have been formerly priced out of the Mandarin.
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A world-class city, as Boston likes to think of itself, should easily be able to support at least one ultra-lux hotel.
 
Isn't the Four Seasons brand considered ultra-luxury... I'm pretty sure that means Boston is doing fine in that market considering they are opening a second one.

The Ritz Carlton brand is also well regarded and doing well this doesn't have anything to do with Boston being unable to support it based on what others have already said.
 
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I have stayed at both Conrads (US and Asia) as well as a Waldorf property in Europe. Conrads are as nice and have service at the same level as the Four Seasons. Waldorf Properties are incredibly luxurious. I am not sure what people are complaining about.
 
^Agree. Waldorf is far more prestigious brand than Mandarin.

And to echo earlier comments, the sale relates to the bankruptcy liquidation of the successor-in-interest to Anglo-Irish Bank, which is essentially the government of the Republic of Ireland. Anglo-Irish held a controlling interest in the hotel, 2008 came along and we all know the rest of the story. In other words, the hotel is not being sold because it isn't doing well. It's doing great, look at the bid price from Hilton. It's being sold because the current owner is a formerly-bankrupt sovereign nation that isn't in the business of owning hotels in foreign countries.
 
^^Did any of you read the article?!

The condos are privately owned by their residents and not associated with the sale of the Mandarin Hotel. The hotel operation would change over--not the management of the condominium.
 
dshoost88 said:
^^Did any of you read the article?!

The condos are privately owned by their residents and not associated with the sale of the Mandarin Hotel. The hotel operation would change over--not the management of the condominium.
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I believe the (non-as of now)issue is that the residences are/were marketed as Residences at Mandarin Oriental. If the hotel is re branded, the condo's probably won't keep that marketing and might take a negative hit in value moving to a perceived lesser brand.
 
palindrome said:
I believe the (non-as of now)issue is that the residences are/were marketed as Residences at Mandarin Oriental. If the hotel is re branded, the condo's probably won't keep that marketing and might take a negative hit in value moving to a perceived lesser brand.
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Correct, those residences were not sold as the Condos at the Condor. The high values paid for these residences were driven by the Mandarin Oriental brand. Owners are likely to be pissed.

Think of it as buying and paying for a BMW, but on delivery you get a car with a Chevy nameplate, and you have to resell it as a Chevy. Same car, but totally different value in the market.
 
But aren't we really talking more of a RR vs Bentley comparison here? Both are very, very high end brands but one is just a step above the other.
 
statler said:
But aren't we really talking more of a RR vs Bentley comparison here? Both are very, very high end brands but one is just a step above the other.
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Precisely. This is an extreme case of #FirstWorldProblems.
 
JeffDowntown said:
The Boston real estate community and press certainly refer to the condos as the Mandarin Oriental Condos

http://www.firstbostonrealty.com/mandarin-boston-condos.shtml

I hope that the Mandarin is anticipating lawsuits. A hotel brand downgrade, even if "allowed" in the condo docs, is going to cause material depreciation of the condo values.

Mandarin Oriental is in the top 10 luxury hotel brands worldwide, as rated by Forbes in September 2015. CNN and Travel and Leisure also put Mandarin Oriental in the top 10. Neither of the Hilton brands are in the top 10 of any of those rating lists.
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As a lawyer, I can tell you it does not matter what realtors or the media says. Only thing that matters is what the condo documents say-they are the final written agreement between the buyer and seller and every court in Massachusetts will hold both parties to that agreement. And, without seeing them, I can say with 99% certainly they protect the developer and operator from all liability if the hotel changes brands.
 
Czervik.Construction said:
I have stayed at both Conrads (US and Asia) as well as a Waldorf property in Europe. Conrads are as nice and have service at the same level as the Four Seasons. Waldorf Properties are incredibly luxurious. I am not sure what people are complaining about.
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I would split the brands into two "luxury" classes:

Cream of Crop, 5-Star:
Mandarin Oriental, FS, Ritz-Carlton, Rosewood, St. Regis, Park Hyatt, Peninsula, Aman Resorts

4-Star Plus:
Waldorf, Conrad, Fairmont, InterContential, Shangri-La, Taj Hotels/Resorts, Langham
 
Oakley said:
I would split the brands into two "luxury" classes:

Cream of Crop, 5-Star:
Mandarin Oriental, FS, Ritz-Carlton, Rosewood, St. Regis, Park Hyatt, Peninsula, Aman Resorts

4-Star Plus:
Waldorf, Conrad, Fairmont, InterContential, Shangri-La, Taj Hotels/Resorts, Langham
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This is pretty much what the luxury brand surveys say over the past year. Occasionally the Taj brand makes it into the top tier.

Were the Mandarin Oriental to become a Four Seasons or a Peninsula, no one would care.
 
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