MassDOT Rail: Springfield Hub (East-West, NNERI, Berkshires, CT-Valley-VT-Quebec)

[jklo]

Is there a reason the T is so married to the idea of diesel?

Don't want to deal with the wires I'm guessing.

BEMUs aren’t real and electrification will never happen.

You would think they would be OK with battery. Whether battery is realistic is another story.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Is there a reason the T is so married to the idea of diesel?

I think a big part of the T's issue is they are afraid of the transformation process. They cannot keep any existing systems running due to lack of maintenance and lack of skilled operators. Add in the complexity of a complete rolling-stock replacement cycle involving new (to the T) technology (with line by line staged roll-out) and catenary fitting of all the CR lines, and you are looking at the kind of project the T could totally botch.

 

[393b40]

Is there a reason the T is so married to the idea of diesel?

It's expensive and there's a lot of risk so the problem is likely getting leadership to buy into doing the work and having to take the blame if they do it voluntarily. If the legislature forces eventually they don't have that problem.

The T can't even get the new CharlieCard 2.0 infrastructure up and running we think they can do electrification?

 

[RandomWalk]

I swear the T only gave up on RTS buses because they weren’t made anymore, and they weren’t really accessible. The five-foot body modules, and the lack of bells and whistles, meant they could service them with basic tools and little skill.

 

[HenryAlan]

I think a big part of the T's issue is they are afraid of the transformation process. They cannot keep any existing systems running due to lack of maintenance and lack of skilled operators. Add in the complexity of a complete rolling-stock replacement cycle involving new (to the T) technology (with line by line staged roll-out) and catenary fitting of all the CR lines, and you are looking at the kind of project the T could totally botch.

So the MBTA doesn't know how to do it. That's fine. Why can't the state contract with somebody that does know how it's done, say a French or Japanese company that has done this a few dozen times? Let the contractor completely own the project, then hand it off to the T as a turn key operation.

 

[Tallguy]

So the MBTA doesn't know how to do it. That's fine. Why can't the state contract with somebody that does know how it's done, say a French or Japanese company that has done this a few dozen times? Let the contractor completely own the project, then hand it off to the T as a turn key operation.

There you go, talking sense!

 

[RandomWalk]

The T still has staff who have spent their entire careers working with the old stuff, and they can’t or won’t learn the new stuff. That holds for diesel trains, buses, or almost anything else large or small.

 

[JeffDowntown]

So the MBTA doesn't know how to do it. That's fine. Why can't the state contract with somebody that does know how it's done, say a French or Japanese company that has done this a few dozen times? Let the contractor completely own the project, then hand it off to the T as a turn key operation.

Hand it off to whom exactly? The diesel gearheads in the mechanics union?

 

[Tallguy]

Hand it off to whom exactly? The diesel gearheads in the mechanics union?

The MBTA is the operator of one of the largest EMU fleets in North America. It's called the Red, Orange and Blue Lines.

 

[JeffDowntown]

The MBTA is the operator of one of the largest EMU fleets in North America. It's called the Red, Orange and Blue Lines.

1) Subway cars are totally different than FRA compliant EMUs.
2) Exactly how well would you say the MBTA's operation of subway cars is going?

 

[Subdivisions]

FWIW, the PATH runs FRA compliant heavy rail subway cars (EMU's).

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

FWIW, the PATH runs FRA compliant heavy rail subway cars (EMU's).

They're FRA-waivered subway rolling stock, not mainline RR stock. No different from how NYCT has an FRA waiver for Staten Island Railway (which is historically an FRA railroad) to run the same exact R44 cars that run on the Subway.

 

[Tallguy]

1) Subway cars are totally different than FRA compliant EMUs.
2) Exactly how well would you say the MBTA's operation of subway cars is going?

While they meet different safety standards and are not operated exactly the same, the are most certainly not "totally different" and the components that require maintenance are similar if not exactly the same.
And using the logic of your second point, I guess we should just shut everything down and go home.

 

[JeffDowntown]

While they meet different safety standards and are not operated exactly the same, the are most certainly not "totally different" and the components that require maintenance are similar if not exactly the same.
And using the logic of your second point, I guess we should just shut everything down and go home.

I am not suggesting we should shut it all down and go home.

But to use a house analogy, we are not looking at a quick flipper where a little touchup paint will fix it all, we are looking at a gut renovation. A few of the basic bone can remain, but most of the rest needs to be rebuilt for the 21st century.

 

[Tallguy]

I a

I am not suggesting we should shut it all down and go home.

But to use a house analogy, we are not looking at a quick flipper where a little touchup paint will fix it all, we are looking at a gut renovation. A few of the basic bone can remain, but most of the rest needs to be rebuilt for the 21st century.

I agree that the T is a candidate for a gut rehab.

 

[Koopzilla24]

Is the Keolis operations factor being overlooked here? I thought they were in charge of staffing and Commuter Rail operations. They’re a French company that operates a wide variety of transit systems I’d imagine they have the people and knowledge to either train or hire to operate an electrified infrastructure. That and the fact that there’d be years of construction and rolling stock procurement that would give time to complete training, familiarization, and qualification of engineers and operators.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Is the Keolis operations factor being overlooked here? I thought they were in charge of staffing and Commuter Rail operations. They’re a French company that operates a wide variety of transit systems I’d imagine they have the people and knowledge to either train or hire to operate an electrified infrastructure. That and the fact that there’d be years of construction and rolling stock procurement that would give time to complete training, familiarization, and qualification of engineers and operators.

I don't really know if the Keolis contract allows them to do the kinds of staffing changes that would be needed. When they took over in 2014 they basically took in the entire employment of MBCR, along with all their union contracts.

 

[ctsketch]

BEMUs aren’t real and electrification will never happen.

is this is a joke? BEMUs are already used in other countries, japan leads the way

 

[king_vibe]

is this is a joke? BEMUs are already used in other countries, japan leads the way

Is there a single BEMU in use anywhere, by any operator in the United States or Canada? You had might as well be talking about the MBTA building zero point energy reactors.

 

[ctsketch]

Is there a single BEMU in use anywhere, by any operator in the United States or Canada? You had might as well be talking about the MBTA building zero point energy reactors.

United States and Canada is not the world. BEMUs exist and they are used in places in Europe and Asia operating then. Your analogy is a bad one. Not being in the U.S and Canada is not the same as not existing