Teban54
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From the article:
Yeah, I agree that 8 daily Boston-Albany trips and only 2 Boston-Springfield-New Haven trips seem weird.
MassDOT Rail: Springfield Hub (East-West, NNERI, Berkshires, CT-Valley-VT-Quebec)
- Thread starter Balerion
- Start date
Of course, if timed properly, Hartford Line could transplatform transfer onto those eight LSL lites
millerm277
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It's worth considering the broader scope of Amtrak service proposals receiving these grants, because that's not the only proposal/study:
- Green Mountain Corridor - Another VT service - NYC/ALB/Mechanicville/Bennington/Manchester (VT)/Rutland/Burlington - unclear on the frequency but it stated that it's in addition to Ethan Allen, not to shift/replace.
- Vermonter Corridor - additional partial frequency running to NYC/SPG/WRJ, taking 90min off the trip time between SPG and St. Albans, and actually getting to MTL with the existing service.
- Adirondack Corridor - 2nd round trip, reduced trip time.
- Empire Corridor - more frequencies, reduced trip time.
- Hartford Line Corridor - more frequencies, restoring + constructing some quantity of new infrastructure explicitly stated.
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Which is to say:
- MassDOT may only be planning on 2 more/extended trips to HFD/SPG with it's own planning to date, but I don't see any reason to think that Amtrak is limiting their planning to that. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but they seem to be thinking of more significant new infrastructure here.....which suggests some sort of plans to use it.
- Albany in this world wouldn't just have 8 more trips to Boston, but some number of additional Empire Service trips to the South + West, and at least 2 more trains to points north.
- Springfield would have at least one more train running up the line continuing north and again, it seems pretty clearly suggested that there'd be other increased service on the line from NHV/HFD.
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Given all that, if they all happened, I think you'd be in a world where there's much more potential for good, practical connections people might want to take at ALB + SPG than today.
For reference, here are the latest slides from the NEC Commission Connect 2037 report (pdf warning) which released in November: they're proposing heavy service increases in Springfield bound regionals, adding 8 daily trips between NYC and Springfield for hourly service and faster on the Hartford line. If all those trips connect reasonably neatly with a regular east-west Albany - Boston service, suddenly a whole new layer cake of service options opens up.
StreetsblogMASS
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MassDOT has a separate 2016 plan for the "inland route" from New Haven to Boston via Springfield. In the 2016 Northern New England Intercity Rail Initiative, MA, VT, and CT endorsed a plan to run 8 daily Amtrak round-trips on the inland route (plus one more Vermonter trip and a new BOS-Montreal route):
The $108 million CRISI grant that MassDOT won earlier this fall was pitched as a first step towards implementation of the NNEIRI plan:
Officials Announce $108 Million Federal Grant to Build East-West Rail - Streetsblog Massachusetts
The proposed track improvements could enable Amtrak trains to run at speeds up to 80 mph between Boston and Springfield.
mass.streetsblog.org
Nexis4jersey
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I feel like the Northern tier should share with the East-West & CT River line saving money and should run up to Burlington instead of terminating at North Adams. I think 110mph should be the upgraded speed limit between White River JCT & New Haven and East-West corridor.. There should be 2-3RTs between Montreal & Boston , 2-3 trips between Boston and Albany.
The EGE
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Slightly outside Massachusetts, but relevant to this project: construction on the new platform and station building at Brattleboro is going to start in March.
It will include the first high-level platform in Vermont. While normally I'm not excited about moving out of historic station buildings, I think this one will be an improvement. The current "station" is a cramped former baggage room in the basement of the Union Station building, which is otherwise converted to an art museum. The new station building will be larger (and actually designed for use as a full train station). It's directly across the tracks from the old station in downtown Brattleboro.
Ground to break for Brattleboro Amtrak station | Issue 747
Construction work on a new train station, which will include the first elevated passenger platform in the state, is now set to start in March, says Amtrak Lead Public Relations Specialist Jen Flanagan. Enfield Enterprises, LLC has been hired to execute the work, which is expected to take 18...
www.commonsnews.org
It will include the first high-level platform in Vermont. While normally I'm not excited about moving out of historic station buildings, I think this one will be an improvement. The current "station" is a cramped former baggage room in the basement of the Union Station building, which is otherwise converted to an art museum. The new station building will be larger (and actually designed for use as a full train station). It's directly across the tracks from the old station in downtown Brattleboro.
And since the MBTA has nothing to do with it, it is not costing $40 million.Slightly outside Massachusetts, but relevant to this project: construction on the new platform and station building at Brattleboro is going to start in March.
Ground to break for Brattleboro Amtrak station | Issue 747
Construction work on a new train station, which will include the first elevated passenger platform in the state, is now set to start in March, says Amtrak Lead Public Relations Specialist Jen Flanagan. Enfield Enterprises, LLC has been hired to execute the work, which is expected to take 18...www.commonsnews.org
It will include the first high-level platform in Vermont. While normally I'm not excited about moving out of historic station buildings, I think this one will be an improvement. The current "station" is a cramped former baggage room in the basement of the Union Station building, which is otherwise converted to an art museum. The new station building will be larger (and actually designed for use as a full train station). It's directly across the tracks from the old station in downtown Brattleboro.
View attachment 46731
Koopzilla24
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Read in an article (having trouble finding it again) that the CEO of AllEarth Rail doesn’t see a path forward with using their refitted RDCs for a Vermont commuter rail service and expects the cars to leave New England and look for a lessee for them elsewhere. My thought is this: MassDOT and RIDOT should take the opportunity to keep these railcars in New England and partner with the P&W to run PVD-WOR rail service via Woonsocket. Permission was already granted for regular passenger service to be run on the alignment and the P&W expressed interest in being contracted for operations of it. It’s a prime opportunity to demonstrate the viability of the route with so many cards already in place.
F-Line to Dudley
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Citation on the permission granted? Don't take the word of that notorious scam outfit Boston Surface RR on anything. P&W never explicitly granted them permission; it was in "negotiation" that never ended. And once P&W was bought out by Gennesee & Wyoming, Inc. the interest, such that it was, more or less stopped.
A big problem with trying to run commuter service there on-the-cheap is the lack of a signal system and Positive Train Control. You're capped by the FRA at something like 3-4 round-trips per day in dark territory, which is about equivalent to what the LIRR's forlorn Greenport Scoot runs. That's not going to be good enough for generating any demand on the route, and going higher triggers some big bucks for the signal installation.
RDC's also have a dwindling parts supply, with the All-Earth ones being idle for years now. Finger Lakes RR already threw in the towel on the Brunswick-Rockland, ME RDC shuttle idea using All-Earth rentals because the test runs uncovered mechanical issues with the cars. They plan to try again this year with conventional push-pull equipment.
I think PVD-WOR is going to have to be launched the hard way...with RIDOT proceeding with its long-stalled plans for intrastate Commuter Rail to Woonsocket using MBTA mercenary ops...and with the states collaborating on a study for Worcester like RIDOT's last State Rail Plan asked for. The Raimondo & McKee Administrations in RI have pretty much ground to a halt on further buildout of intrastate CR, and MassDOT hasn't batted an eye at that study request in close to 10 years...so the lack of momentum unfortunately is what it is.
Koopzilla24
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Trying to find a citation on the P&W/G&W statements but Google searches are only returning those fake ticketing cites claiming to tell Providence to Worcester train tickets for $11 so I could be wrong. I believe it was related to the construction of Pawtucket/Central Falls station some sort of preliminary agreement to not preclude future service to Woonsocket on their tracks as well as shifting around their freight operations timing to better accommodate trains stopping in Pawtucket.
The idea would be a pilot service with low startup costs to get the ball rolling. I’m personally a big proponent of trialing a new service to see how it goes and making adjustments to suit the pilot’s demand rather than years of studies and projections.
With RIDOTs adversity to doing anything that isn’t on existing service or widening a highway it’ll take some serious moves from private investment to get something done unfortunately. That or the city governments of Worcester, Woonsocket, and Providence taking charge but I don’t see that happening.
F-Line to Dudley
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That's exactly the problem I cited with the lack of signal system. I'm not even sure if the 8 daily movements the FRA allows is passenger slots or total train slots, in which case P&W's daily freight schedule is probably going to cut you down to a 2 RT's per day allowance. You basically can't extrapolate demand on the corridor from such a severely limited a commuter schedule. That's not a blocker you can end-run around with cheap equipment; BSRR already tried to end-run around it with its dishonest promises, and failed miserably. Something has to give, and it's going to cost you a lot of $$$ for a signal system with PTC to allow enough meaningful slots to "see how it goes".
This is probably a corridor you have to trial using a bus along Route 146 before the rail options shake out at all. Remember...MassDOT hasn't even returned RIDOT's phone calls about a preliminary study yet, so ridership projections are a total unknown everywhere except the Providence-Woonsocket segment that did get a full study workup.
That's great. Brattleboro is a cool town. Good to see this.Slightly outside Massachusetts, but relevant to this project: construction on the new platform and station building at Brattleboro is going to start in March.
Ground to break for Brattleboro Amtrak station | Issue 747
Construction work on a new train station, which will include the first elevated passenger platform in the state, is now set to start in March, says Amtrak Lead Public Relations Specialist Jen Flanagan. Enfield Enterprises, LLC has been hired to execute the work, which is expected to take 18...www.commonsnews.org
It will include the first high-level platform in Vermont. While normally I'm not excited about moving out of historic station buildings, I think this one will be an improvement. The current "station" is a cramped former baggage room in the basement of the Union Station building, which is otherwise converted to an art museum. The new station building will be larger (and actually designed for use as a full train station). It's directly across the tracks from the old station in downtown Brattleboro.
View attachment 46731
Koopzilla24
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Amtrak Introduces New Round Trip Bus Service for New Bedford and Worcester, Mass. Via Providence - Amtrak Media
Offering convenient thruway link for Amtrak customers to its national network PROVIDENCE – Amtrak announced today the launch of its latest connecting bus
media.amtrak.com
Kind of in progress at least
I’ve been glad to see this, but will be more glad to see it around in 18 months — seems like the kind of thing that gets piloted for a while but then discontinued.Amtrak Introduces New Round Trip Bus Service for New Bedford and Worcester, Mass. Via Providence - Amtrak Media
Offering convenient thruway link for Amtrak customers to its national network PROVIDENCE – Amtrak announced today the launch of its latest connecting bus
Kind of in progress at least
I don’t know much about Amtrak’s Thruway services though; how often do they add new routes/change routes?
themissinglink
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Mass. Rep. Neal meets with new MassDOT West-East rail director at Springfield’s Union Station
State and local officials joined Congressman Richard Neal in Springfield, Massachusetts, Monday to review and reaffirm their commitment to expanding rail service throughout the region.
www.wamc.org
kingofsheeba
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The next thirty-seven years will fly byMass. Rep. Neal meets with new MassDOT West-East rail director at Springfield’s Union Station
State and local officials joined Congressman Richard Neal in Springfield, Massachusetts, Monday to review and reaffirm their commitment to expanding rail service throughout the region.
Charlie_mta
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I'd like to see daily Boston to Greenfield trains instituted sooner. Greenfield is an economically depressed area, a lovely town but a lot of homeless people, and the trains would give it a much needed shot in the arm. Up until the 1970s, Greenfield had a lot of good paying jobs at mills and factories, but of course they are long gone.