MBTA Bus & BRT

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
6,286
Reaction score
1,176
I know its just a rendering, but that could sure use some greenery... even planters could make it not seem so desolate
There's a weirdly 60's/brutalist vibe in the art styling, even though the scene depicted is anything but. Like if you took out the color highlights and looked at it in grayscale it wouldn't be out of place in an old set of slides from somebody's "Tomorrowland" presentation of 50 years ago...only with all the adult men switched to wearing backpacks instead of carrying briefcases.

If that's a choice of Photoshop filters it's...trippily askew in some way I can't quite put my finger on.
 

guitarguynboston

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
107
Reaction score
105
I don't get why it makes more sense to them to have parking on the street there where it's not really needed and push the bike lane in like that. It's just nuts. 🤬
 

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
723
Reaction score
517
I don't get why it makes more sense to them to have parking on the street there where it's not really needed and push the bike lane in like that. It's just nuts. 🤬
On the side of the convention center it's not parking it's pick up drop off which regardless of how much I like transit and bikes it's vital for the convention center, taxis and Uber/Lyft are always going to be big there.
 

chmeeee

Active Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
298
Reaction score
30
I don't get why it makes more sense to them to have parking on the street there where it's not really needed and push the bike lane in like that. It's just nuts. 🤬
You can't have a major destination like that with zero curbside access for cars/TNCs/cabs/shuttles to pull over and drop off. It's just not practical.
 

guitarguynboston

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
107
Reaction score
105
That makes more sense than parking. It's been awhile since I've been down there and figured drop off was on another side of the building.

But still shouldn't the drop off be where they are putting the bike lane in. I drive thru/in makes more sense so that arrivals don't have to walk across a bike lane. The whole thing just seems like a really bad design

On the side of the convention center it's not parking it's pick up drop off which regardless of how much I like transit and bikes it's vital for the convention center, taxis and Uber/Lyft are always going to be big there.
 

George_Apley

Not a Brahmin
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4,599
Reaction score
979
That makes more sense than parking. It's been awhile since I've been down there and figured drop off was on another side of the building.

But still shouldn't the drop off be where they are putting the bike lane in. I drive thru/in makes more sense so that arrivals don't have to walk across a bike lane. The whole thing just seems like a really bad design
Bikeways don't need to be impermeable to pedestrians, but should have clearly marked crossings. If they switched the design and put the car drop-off "inside" the bikeway, then there would be two motor-vehicle crossings of the bikeway, which seems much worse than some pedestrian crosswalks marked on the bikeway.
 

jass

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
4,730
Reaction score
178
You can't have a major destination like that with zero curbside access for cars/TNCs/cabs/shuttles to pull over and drop off. It's just not practical.
Sure, but it doesnt have to be front and center.

They could be directed to the side street

 

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
723
Reaction score
517
Sure, but it doesnt have to be front and center.

They could be directed to the side street

But directing them to the side street also sends them across the bike lane twice, and at peak hours at the end of events that can mean lots of vehicles queuing up and blocking the bike lane. Having the bike lane away from those conflicts is better. This is a 15% design rendering so as the design goes on they will hopefully creatively use landscaping, fencing, curbs and markings to delineate the bike lane and the pedestrians, for example farther down Summer St where they have fencing and a crossing at the bus stop: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.350...4!1snNiS3CuTQIxVEaQz-0IrjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
 

Arlington

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
4,397
Reaction score
524
As a cyclist, I really don't get the problem with a curve in the bikeway around the drop-off zone.
Me neither. ...and as a guy who has biked* to the BCEC, this whole stretch is already the "terminal zone" where:
BCEC-bound cyclists are either already looking for a dock/lockup
or
Through cyclists should be slowing down to protect the random-walk tourists (if they're on headed onward to Black Falcon-ish places)

*from North Station, by folding bike & from several points via Hubway/Bluebikes
 

vanshnookenraggen

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
6,510
Reaction score
323
What I like very very much about the full plan:

Is that it seems to be actually implementing the the A-Street-to-Black-Falcon parts of this plan from upthread:
I'm pretty sure that the way I discovered archBoston (back when it was still Skyscraper something or other) was by finding a proposal ablarc had posted about a BRT route that mirrored this almost identically. That was maybe 17 years ago?
 

HenryAlan

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
2,369
Reaction score
355
public meeting for Washington St BRT next week:
"Following the success of the Northbound Bus Lane on Washington Street, the Boston Transportation Department would like to hear your thoughts on enhancements to the Northbound Bus Lane and a Southbound Bus Lane. "
I attended this meeting. Not a whole lot to report, but here are a few key points:
  • Inbound lane will be extended on the north end across Ukraine, all the way to the Forest Hills busway
  • Corinth st. will be reconfigured with a bus/bike lane taking the travel lane on the Bank of America side, which will then feed in to the Washington St. lane
  • Corinth and Poplar will have bus stops moved and re-configured with curb bump outs. Corinth stop will be in front of B of A/Cohaset St., rather than at corner of Washington; Poplar stop will be at the junction with South St., near Wallpaper City
  • Stop consolidation between Firth/South and Tolgate Way, dropping from 3 to 2, with better access to crosswalks, signalization, etc.
  • Outbound lane will initially run as far as Murray Hill Road, but not all the way to Square, due to concerns about street space to be allocated to outdoor dining. This may change at a later date
  • City would likely establish resident only permit zone on abutting side streets
Of people who spoke or commented on the chat box, only one person was strongly against the changes. He was a large property owner who was concerned about the businesses and residents in his buildings not being able to park (maybe provide some parking as a land lord?). He said he intended to organize opposition among affected merchants. I didn't get the impression that the city cared, but that this was just letting people know what was going to happen. Otherwise, lots of strong support.

As somebody who travels this corridor most days, either by bike or bus, I'm giddy about this prospect.
 

HenryAlan

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
2,369
Reaction score
355
As a cyclist, I really don't get the problem with a curve in the bikeway around the drop-off zone.
Same. This configuration looks much safer and easier to navigate than any that involves uber/lyft/taxis crossing back and forth in front of the bikes.
 

jass

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
4,730
Reaction score
178
But directing them to the side street also sends them across the bike lane twice, and at peak hours at the end of events that can mean lots of vehicles queuing up and blocking the bike lane. Having the bike lane away from those conflicts is better. This is a 15% design rendering so as the design goes on they will hopefully creatively use landscaping, fencing, curbs and markings to delineate the bike lane and the pedestrians, for example farther down Summer St where they have fencing and a crossing at the bus stop: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.350...4!1snNiS3CuTQIxVEaQz-0IrjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I hadnt seen the final version, that looks great. Yes, the fending is key
 

Balerion

Active Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
146
Reaction score
6
I attended this meeting. Not a whole lot to report, but here are a few key points:
  • Inbound lane will be extended on the north end across Ukraine, all the way to the Forest Hills busway
  • Corinth st. will be reconfigured with a bus/bike lane taking the travel lane on the Bank of America side, which will then feed in to the Washington St. lane
  • Corinth and Poplar will have bus stops moved and re-configured with curb bump outs. Corinth stop will be in front of B of A/Cohaset St., rather than at corner of Washington; Poplar stop will be at the junction with South St., near Wallpaper City
  • Stop consolidation between Firth/South and Tolgate Way, dropping from 3 to 2, with better access to crosswalks, signalization, etc.
  • Outbound lane will initially run as far as Murray Hill Road, but not all the way to Square, due to concerns about street space to be allocated to outdoor dining. This may change at a later date
  • City would likely establish resident only permit zone on abutting side streets
Of people who spoke or commented on the chat box, only one person was strongly against the changes. He was a large property owner who was concerned about the businesses and residents in his buildings not being able to park (maybe provide some parking as a land lord?). He said he intended to organize opposition among affected merchants. I didn't get the impression that the city cared, but that this was just letting people know what was going to happen. Otherwise, lots of strong support.

As somebody who travels this corridor most days, either by bike or bus, I'm giddy about this prospect.
Thanks for the update. I'm also quite excited by this. The total number of passenger-hours saved per day in the PM rush is going to be enormous.

A couple of minor questions:

1) There are four stops between Firth/South and Tollgate Way. Getting that down to two seems unrealistic. Consolidating the Mosgrove (OB)/Whipple (IB) stop with the Granfield Ave stop seems like the best way to eliminate a stop.

2) What's the deal with the name "Tollgate Way", anyway? There's no such street today and I haven't found one a historical map I checked either.
 

millerm277

Active Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
245
Reaction score
48
As a cyclist, I really don't get the problem with a curve in the bikeway around the drop-off zone.
During major events, the BCEC crowd/security queueing spills out to cover pretty much the whole of the concrete in front of the building, to the point that it's difficult to get past on foot at peak entry times on that side of the street, and even with all that queue space sometimes pedestrian lines to back up all the way onto the bridge over the Pike.

Now, is the XX days a year when that's happening a reason to change the design of the bike lane, or do you just accept it's going to be blocked occasionally? I don't know.
 

Downburst

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
1,380
Reaction score
45

chmeeee

Active Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
298
Reaction score
30
During major events, the BCEC crowd/security queueing spills out to cover pretty much the whole of the concrete in front of the building, to the point that it's difficult to get past on foot at peak entry times on that side of the street, and even with all that queue space sometimes pedestrian lines to back up all the way onto the bridge over the Pike.

Now, is the XX days a year when that's happening a reason to change the design of the bike lane, or do you just accept it's going to be blocked occasionally? I don't know.
I would say you don't design around the busiest days, because those are not possible to design around. Leave enough room at the pickup area for a typical event day. For the however many events a year that pack that space 100% for an hour or two, just assume all bets are off.
 

Top