MBTA Buses & Infrastructure

[sneijder]

Any updates on freeing the Silver Line Ramp for either a peak-only opening or permanent opening at all times? I'm riding SL1 next week at 5pm and would love to not have to take a rideshare instead..

 

[HelloBostonHi]

Any updates on freeing the Silver Line Ramp for either a peak-only opening or permanent opening at all times? I'm riding SL1 next week at 5pm and would love to not have to take a rideshare instead..

It's on the agenda for the February 10th FMCB meeting, I'd be surprised if we hear anything before then.

 

[HelloBostonHi]

Good time to submit a supporting comment for the changes to the Chelsea Street bridge regulations: https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...operation-regulation-chelsea-river-chelsea-ma

Comment period closes 1/28/20. USCGC reviews can take anywhere from 6 months to 5 years and MassDOT is hoping that the generally win for everyone nature of the proposal plus some public support can get it moved through and implemented this year. Worth 5 minutes to submit a comment, the website above has the comment form.

 

[KCasiglio]

MBTA pitches Quincy bus depot to skeptical residents

QUINCY — The MBTA pitched its plan to turn the former Lowe’s home improvement store on Burgin Parkway into a bus depot to a group of

www.patriotledger.com

This would stand to add ~10 minutes walking to my commute if I and my neighbors can't walk through this property to QA via Taber street. It's an objectively good location, but I hope they maintain some kind of pedestrian/bike access to the station.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Interesting that the T put a bunch of Boeing and Kinkisharyo LRVs on there as well

Scrap Light Rail Vehicles

This item is being sold by auction. Bidding starts Jan 14 and ends Jan 28. Item is located in Newton, MA.

www.auctionsinternational.com

*BUMP*

Bidding's closed. And now the wait begins for whose front lawn in the suburbs is going to be drawing neighbor complaints for sporting a Boeing signed "A Watertown" parked next to a rusted-out '79 Chevy pickup. All of the trolleys netted winning bids; the flat car got none and was de-listed. Winners still have to come pick up their prizes themselves, so we'll see if any of these get re-listed this spring due to no-shows.

Also, same junkyard bidder in Bridgewater that won the last two bus scrap contracts will be chowing down the 32 last remaining high-floor buses. Removal from Everett will take place over next 2 months. Which is good, because the T has just yanked the first batch of Neoplan retirements from Albany garage and will begin de-fueling and decommissioning them over remainder of the winter to start batching for the next 190-bus scrap bid due to be advertised in the next couple months.

 

[sm89]

*BUMP*

Bidding's closed. And now the wait begins for whose front lawn in the suburbs is going to be drawing neighbor complaints for sporting a Boeing signed "A Watertown" parked next to a rusted-out '79 Chevy pickup. All of the trolleys netted winning bids; the flat car got none and was de-listed. Winners still have to come pick up their prizes themselves, so we'll see if any of these get re-listed this spring due to no-shows.

Also, same junkyard bidder in Bridgewater that won the last two bus scrap contracts will be chowing down the 32 last remaining high-floor buses. Removal from Everett will take place over next 2 months. Which is good, because the T has just yanked the first batch of Neoplan retirements from Albany garage and will begin de-fueling and decommissioning them over remainder of the winter to start batching for the next 190-bus scrap bid due to be advertised in the next couple months.

About $1,000 for the green line trains, but $50,000 for the buses!

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

About $1,000 for the green line trains, but $50,000 for the buses!

Parts. There's more in a bus you can scour for your own garage than a custom-unicorn Boeing trolley. The RTS buses could also all still run at their time of retirement. Nothing was ever going to make those trains run again...especially the scrap Type 7's which were already organ-harvested for every reusable lugnut to feed the 3700-series rebuild program.

 

[HelloBostonHi]

Honestly surprised that some entrepreneurial type hasn't tried to secure some of these old vehicles, move them to a remote plot of land in the mountains, retrofit and rent them as custom Airbnbs for $100 a night...

 

[JeffDowntown]

Honestly surprised that some entrepreneurial type hasn't tried to secure some of these old vehicles, move them to a remote plot of land in the mountains, retrofit and rent them as custom Airbnbs for $100 a night...

I know of a campground in NH that has done something similar with old Airstream trailers.

I suspect the big difference is transportability. You can pull a trailer on the road. Moving an LRV is a bit more of a challenge (and cost).

 

[Arlington]

Everett & Somerville have (re-)applied to use Casino $ to PLAN to extend the Silver Line Gateway from Chelsea past the Casino to terminate at a rail transit stop (the choice of rail connection is part of what needs to be planned)

Streetsblog coverage
Planning grant itself

It sort of looks like this is the second time they've applied for it and partly that (as I read Streetsblog) part of the the process is just syncing things with the MassDOT/MBTA planning process :

Everett and Somerville also applied for – and won – a $425,000 Gaming Commission grant to plan a conceptual Silver Line extension project last year.

According to Everett transportation planner Jay Monty, those funds have not yet been spent. City officials have been waiting for MassDOT and the MBTA to kick off a complementary study that would be responsible for planning service levels, maintenance facilities, fleet needs and other operational issues associated with the project. The cities’ grant funding from the Gaming Commission would then be used to draft detailed plans for redesigned local streets along the route.

Picture of this "Yellow Line" BRT alongside other stuff like GLX Phase 2 (to Mystic Valley), OL Branching, and new CR stop @ Sullivan as identified by the Lower Mystic Regional Working Group:

Caption from Streetsblog: "Transit improvements analyzed in the Lower Mystic Regional Working Group’s 2019 transportation study. The Silver Line extensions highlighted in yellow emerged as the study’s top recommendations for implementation. Courtesy of the Lower Mystic Regional Working Group."

 

[Arlington]

All of this looks good to me, though I wonder about how branching would impact Orange Line headways. Malden is currently accustomed to 6 minutes. OLT promises 4.5 minute headways, but with a split at Assembly, each branch would only get 9 minutes, a 50% reduction for Malden.

F-Line shares your concerns. In the Fantasy Maps (and Crazy Pitches) he has made it clear that branching is generally unattractive for the Orange.

So I didn't want the "Lower Mystic Task Force" ability to draw lines on an aerial view to start a HRT branching discussion here.

Actually, they do make some very reasonable BRT suggestions, both:
Radial:
- Out Everett Broadway to Glendale Sq)
- In Charlestown Rutherford to North Station
Urban Ring:
- Chelsea-Sullivan
- Sullivan-Kendall

 

[KCasiglio]

I hate that routing to Kendall, but most of the BRT here seems like no brainer. Extending from chelsea to Sullivan and North Station, as well as deepening the commitment to bus along broadway in Everett.

I know they want to get to Kendall because Kendall but this feels like a clunky, forced way to do it. I think following the 86 routing to Harvard makes more sense and nicely compliments GLX through union.

(Also off topic for the thread but very much pro-Sullivan as a RUR stop)

 

[Arlington]

Are you cool if I move this to the OLT thread?

 

[JeffDowntown]

I have to think implementing true Spanish Solution pedestrian flow at Park on the Red Line platforms would go a long way to easing dwell time penalties there. Or are Americans simply too clueless to be directionally herded as pedestrians?

Can't help you with DTX or SS.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

I have to think implementing true Spanish Solution pedestrian flow at Park on the Red Line platforms would go a long way to easing dwell time penalties there. Or are Americans simply too clueless to be directionally herded as pedestrians?

Can't help you with DTX or SS.

Everything helps, sure. But the point is you can't hand-wave at what's basically the laboratory example of world perfection for achievable headways in supremely well load-distributed system and claim that can be done anywhere but for wearing "big boy pants" (whatever that's supposed to mean). You could dig up Line 14, airlift it verbatim to Boston with all its personnel and even all its Parisian commuters replacing their dumber Boston counterparts...and in total verbatim state its headways would be a minimum 100% worse (3 minutes not 1:30). Because instead of intersecting HRT transfers at majority of its stations it's now crammed the near-entirety of that distribution into 2 consecutive hyper-concentrated stops. How are you going to close those doors faster?...by stationing soldiers with bayonets to pants-shitting fear people to board faster? Your airlifted replacement Parisian commuters aren't going to fare much better than the Bostonians in that kind of loading situation.

This is why modeling world examples to other cities so popular in the transpo blogosphere needs to...you know...actually model its application by plugging the variables before there's any lesson to learn. Stuff like transfer distribution is muy importante to factor before getting into a dick-measuring contest with somebody else's conditions totally unlike our own. Stuff like this is WAY more consequential than the "competency" question.

To bring it closer to topic, this Everett working group is ascribing similar blindness to their Orange branching proposal. When so much of the bus coverage in/around Everett is sourced out of Wellington and Malden the headway reduction from a branching takes away from a share of their transit frequencies. Two steps forward, one step back. Now why do it that way when there are other options that do the same (like a branch off the Urban Ring mainline) without the frequency reduction because they have more source frequencies to cobble together from multiple sources. Blind faith that OLT is somehow a bigger set of "big boy pants" than it actually is and they can magic their way into more headways through the State-DTX limiter so they can pretend Malden isn't taking a hit?

It's not going to happen that way. The mainline-limiting variables are what they are. It's curious that this working group would ignore that when so much of their other package of improvements is bus-related. They're undermining their own network frequencies forming the backbone of this plan if they kick a leg out from under transfer matchups immediately to their west in Malden. That shouldn't escape notice. It takes a certain amount of magical thinking to let that escape notice.

 

[jass]

How are you going to close those doors faster?...by stationing soldiers with bayonets to pants-shitting fear people to board faster? Your airlifted replacement Parisian commuters aren't going to fare much better than the Bostonians in that kind of loading situation.

In Mexico City, which you ignored, closing doors close. If you stand in the way, you get squeezed like an orange. People learn fast that ding ding ding means youre either inside or outside, but not both. The door is stronger than you.

And since the next train is just 90 seconds away, it's not a big deal. American love to hold doors open because it could be a 12 minute wait if you dont get inside.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

In Mexico City, which you ignored, closing doors close. If you stand in the way, you get squeezed like an orange. People learn fast that ding ding ding means youre either inside or outside, but not both. The door is stronger than you.

And since the next train is just 90 seconds away, it's not a big deal. American love to hold doors open because it could be a 12 minute wait if you dont get inside.

A practice such as that which is absolutely 1000% illegal under ADA laws does not a Boston-relevant example make, so nothing was "ignored". Door sensors do have exact accessibility specs they have to follow on their cycling which outright prohibits such draconian measures as "squishing people like an orange" from ever being allowed.

This is why globe-trotting for cherry-picked comparisons doesn't work unless you're willing to apply a filter to the situation being modeled. Things like "the Americans With Disabilities Act is law of the land" can't be kludged around, nor would they ever be in a civilized society. Stuff foreigners do that's permissible under much more lax accessibility regs aren't 'features' we need to rush to knock over granny-in-a-walker to import here...they most definitely categorize as 'bugs' to avoid at all cost. Take it up with the Supreme Court if superior accessibility standards are getting in the way of door dwells; no transit planner in the country has the authority to do anything about that.

 

[jass]

A practice such as that which is absolutely 1000% illegal under ADA laws does not a Boston-relevant example make.

Im pretty familiar with ADA law, since its a significant portion of my work, and I dont recall a section mandating that the doors recycle.

I can also give you a laundry list of places where the MBTA has ignored ADA law for 30 years.

This is true even in situations where the cost of following ADA law is zero. IE, when the automated stop anouncements are broken, the driver of the bus/train must make them. Ive yet to find a bus driver that does.

 

[jass]

Apparently RER A (Paris), which branches on both sides, and has extremely heavy traffic in the center, runs every 120 seconds, with a goal to reach 108 seconds. Each train carries significantly more people than the orange line. Each new train is set to carry 1725 people.

So clearly, impossible to branch the orange line.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Im pretty familiar with ADA law, since its a significant portion of my work, and I dont recall a section mandating that the doors recycle.

I can also give you a laundry list of places where the MBTA has ignored ADA law for 30 years.

This is true even in situations where the cost of following ADA law is zero. IE, when the automated stop anouncements are broken, the driver of the bus/train must make them. Ive yet to find a bus driver that does.

It's in the accessibility specs guides helpfully hosted on the T website; look it up yourself.

Non-compliance with ADA is non-compliance is non-compliance. That there are examples of non-compliance in our backyard does not mean the barn door is legally open to nullification and anything goes. That is no counterpoint. You claim to be familiar with ADA law, so this should not be news to you in the slightest. It is illegal...illegal illegal illegal...to program vehicle doors to close with excessive force on a person moving slowly through the vehicle entrance. Conditioned behavior of patrons on the platform has nothing to do with that, nor do people holding the door with due or undue courtesy. You can not speed a door queue by enforcing a physical-strength penalty on patrons, and it does not matter AT ALL if that works 'totes awesome in Mexico City. It's illegal.

Filter out the examples that are blatantly illegal or physically impermissible here before posting. Those examples have zero relevance to showing a way this system could do things better.

Apparently RER A (Paris), which branches on both sides, and has extremely heavy traffic in the center, runs every 120 seconds, with a goal to reach 108 seconds. Each train carries significantly more people than the orange line. Each new train is set to carry 1725 people.

So clearly, impossible to branch the orange line.

And here we go again with the context-free strawmen. RER A is a 4-branch system that splits/combines on either end in what's considered "Zone 3" of 5 concentric zones and unites through the CBD in an 8-station interlined mainline segment. Quite obviously not an Orange Line analogue in the slightest. The interlined segment has SIX consecutive transfer stations with transfers to TEN different Metro lines, multiple RER lines, SCNF high-speed rail, and multiple suburban lines. The only two stops that don't have other-line transfers...are the branch-transfer stations at the splits. As alien a setup to Orange's State-DTX gravitational singularity, Haymarket-NS, and Back Bay as humanly possible. Again...you could airlift the whole fucking RER A across the Atlantic--better-mannered Parisian passengers at all--to Boston and it would would have TWICE-or-worse the headways right from the get-go because the transfer density is complete opposite-universe more concentrated and exerts an order-of-magnitude more punitive dwell limit on headways. The biggest-boy transpo pants on Planet Earth will not cover over the fact that it only does what it does because it has that extremely many transfers taming dwells over the 100% entirety of its mainline...and nothing in Boston does or ever will.

This is not hard to filter. World comparisons aren't relevant when they can't be physically and legally implemented here at the most basic of levels. Pick way better strawmen than this if you insist on continuing to beat this horse over and over.