MBTA Fare System (Charlie, AFC 2.0, Zone, Discounts)

Riverside said:
That being said, it still stands that less than a third — historically around about a quarter — is coming from farebox taps. That’s… just not a lot.
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While technically true, it is misleading to use this statistic as an argument against fare collection. People buy monthly passes because it exempts them from fare collection. If there were zero expectation of fare collection, fewer would buy passes. The "real" farebox revenue is (current revenue) - (what revenue would be if the T suspended fare collection).

I'm not saying the T needs to enforce fares all at costs. I'm saying *some* enforcement is hugely different than *none*. Maybe subway fare gates are completely sufficient and surface stop collection isn't worthwhile; I couldn't say.
 
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kdmc said:
While technically true, it is misleading to use this statistic as an argument against fare collection. People buy monthly passes because it exempts them from fare collection. If there were zero expectation of fare collection, fewer would buy passes. The "real" farebox revenue is (current revenue) - (what revenue would be if the T suspended fare collection).

I'm not saying the T needs to enforce fares all at costs. I'm saying *some* enforcement is hugely different than *none*. Maybe subway fare gates are completely sufficient and surface stop collection isn't worthwhile; I couldn't say.
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Which is why I'm not advocating for a cessation a fare collection. :) Rather, I'm suggesting a consolidation of fare collection primarily to location that already have faregates. Full write up here, diagram below.

1716819068403.png


Ultimately, my proposal boils down to this: centralize fare collection to locations where faregates already exist, and provide riders a way to pay for their whole day’s travel at once.

Proposed changes:

In practical terms, this would entail the following changes:
  1. Halt fare collection on the outer parts of the Rapid Transit system
  2. Halt fare collection on most bus routes at most stops
  3. Maintain fare collection in downtown and other employment centers, including certain bus hubs, referred herein as the “Destination Zone”
  4. Shift fares from, for example, $2.40 inbound and $2.40 outbound to a single payment of $4.80 on the outbound trip – keeping costs to consumer equal and preventing a revenue deficit
  5. Modify the Single Ride (at the revised fare) to cover a day’s round-trip with transfers
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Riverside said:
Which is why I'm not advocating for a cessation a fare collection. :) Rather, I'm suggesting a consolidation of fare collection primarily to location that already have faregates. Full write up here, diagram below.

View attachment 50871
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Right, I'd forgotten that this was your proposal @Riverside. I do think it is a smart idea, but I can't imagine the T ever implementing it after all they've sunk into the new AFC 😕
 
Riverside said:
Which is why I'm not advocating for a cessation a fare collection. :) Rather, I'm suggesting a consolidation of fare collection primarily to location that already have faregates. Full write up here, diagram below.

View attachment 50871
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What about trips within the downtown/fare collection zone area, would they now just cost twice as much? I can't imagine that all those riders from Everett and Chelsea who take the 108/111 into Sullivan/Haymarket and then hop on the Orange Line or take 116/117 into Maverick and then transfer to the Blue Line would be super thrilled about that.

I feel like it's also worth mentioning that a complicated fare system is why Charlie on the MTA got written, for what it's worth.
 
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TheRatmeister said:
What about trips within the downtown/fare collection zone area, would they now just cost twice as much? I can't imagine that all those riders from Everett and Chelsea who take the 108/111 into Sullivan/Haymarket and then hop on the Orange Line or 116/117 into Maverick would be super thrilled about that.
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1716830269445.png

Avoiding double fares for Destination Zone residents​

Certain commuters (e.g. in Cambridge) will travel between two stations where a fare would be collected upon entry (e.g. Central + South Station).

To avoid these riders being burdened by a double fare, the Single Ride (currently used on CharlieTickets and CharlieCards) would be modified to last 18 hours and six “taps”, very similar to today’s structure, where a Single Ride is good for multiple entries within a 2-hour period in order to accommodate transfers from buses. This would ensure that these commuters do not have to pay extra (as long as they keep their morning ticket for the afternoon).

It is also worth noting that the majority of MBTA fare revenue (72%) comes from commuter rail fares, the RIDE and ferries, and from passengers using a monthly, weekly, or daily pass, with unlimited transfers. These riders would be entirely unaffected by this fare collection change. Most pay-as-you-go riders would pay the same amount per day as they do now; a small fraction of riders would use the new Single Ride described above, with minor adjustments to their day-to-day.
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tl;dr: you pay twice as much up front, and it lasts you for two trips (with multiple transfers within each trip) rather than one.

I'm belatedly realizing that there is some logic I didn't spell out with regard to bus transfer stations. The idea is that passengers alighting from inbound buses arriving at Sullivan, Harvard, Ruggles, etc, will be treated as already being within fare control, i.e. inbound transferring passengers would have no fare at that point. That said, I grant that this is easier said than done in some places; Harvard and Ruggles have relatively "sealable" busways, but others are not as easy. In the example below, we'll assume that the 64's berth at Central can't be brought behind fare control.

Conceptually:

Board 77 in ArlingtonAlight at Harvard and board RedAlight at Park StWork/School/etcBoard Red at Park StAlight at Harvard and board 77Alight in Arlington
no fareboxno fare, behind fare control$4.80 at faregateno fare, behind fare control
Board 64 in AllstonAlight at Central and board CentralAlight at Charles/MGHWork/School/etcBoard Red at Charles/MGHAlight at Central and board 64Alight in Allston
no farebox$4.80 at faregate retain Single-Ride ticketreuse Single-Ridereuse Single-Ride
 
Stlin said:
The T helpfully included a slide on this in its preliminary budget presentation! In short, only about 42% of the Ts revenue came from monthly passes of all sorts in 2023.
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That chart is brutal. Factoring in inflation and the wage hikes, it's like they need to double or more their revenue.

I do think people try to cheat the system on CR. And it's not surprising that CR pass revenue has shrunk given that hybrid people are better off paying single tickets, esp those who don't transfer to subway or bus.
 
Riverside said:
View attachment 50877

tl;dr: you pay twice as much up front, and it lasts you for two trips (with multiple transfers within each trip) rather than one.

I'm belatedly realizing that there is some logic I didn't spell out with regard to bus transfer stations. The idea is that passengers alighting from inbound buses arriving at Sullivan, Harvard, Ruggles, etc, will be treated as already being within fare control, i.e. inbound transferring passengers would have no fare at that point. That said, I grant that this is easier said than done in some places; Harvard and Ruggles have relatively "sealable" busways, but others are not as easy. In the example below, we'll assume that the 64's berth at Central can't be brought behind fare control.

Conceptually:

Board 77 in ArlingtonAlight at Harvard and board RedAlight at Park StWork/School/etcBoard Red at Park StAlight at Harvard and board 77Alight in Arlington
no fareboxno fare, behind fare control$4.80 at faregateno fare, behind fare control
Board 64 in AllstonAlight at Central and board CentralAlight at Charles/MGHWork/School/etcBoard Red at Charles/MGHAlight at Central and board 64Alight in Allston
no farebox$4.80 at faregateretain Single-Ride ticketreuse Single-Ridereuse Single-Ride
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It took me a minute to fully wrap my head around it but yeah that does work. I'd still be quite worried about complexity though, especially since some of the main users of single-ride tickets are tourists who are completely unfamiliar with the system. There is also the possibility that fare collection could seem quite arbitrary and unfair if you don't fully understand the system, which is not great politically.
 
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jklo said:
That chart is brutal. Factoring in inflation and the wage hikes, it's like they need to double or more their revenue.

I do think people try to cheat the system on CR. And it's not surprising that CR pass revenue has shrunk given that hybrid people are better off paying single tickets, esp those who don't transfer to subway or bus.
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The way I read the graph is that FY2024 year-to-date is $300MM, meaning that we should expect around $600MM total revenue for the year. That'd still be a decrease 2019 when factoring in inflation, but it'd represent a huge recovery compared to 2021-2023.

EDIT: Nevermind, as @Stlin pointed out, I forgot how financial years worked. The chart is indeed brutal.
 
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kdmc said:
The way I read the graph is that FY2024 year-to-date is $300MM, meaning that we should expect around $600MM total revenue for the year. That'd still be a decrease 2019 when factoring in inflation, but it'd represent a huge recovery compared to 2021-2023.
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But isn't ridership not that different between last year and this year? It doesn't look like there's a 1.5x or 2x ridership increase from when I browse the transitmatters or first party T data visualizations. Where's all this revenue coming from?
 
Riverside said:
Do you have a link for this handy?
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Presentation here; I know it says see appendix on the slide, but this slide is *from* the appendix.
kdmc said:
The way I read the graph is that FY2024 year-to-date is $300MM, meaning that we should expect around $600MM total revenue for the year. That'd still be a decrease 2019 when factoring in inflation, but it'd represent a huge recovery compared to 2021-2023.
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Keep in mind the state fiscal year runs July 1-June 30; FY24 ends in less than 5 weeks - I'd expect to see fare revenues in line with FY23 if not lower because of all the shutdowns.
 
kdmc said:
EDIT: Nevermind, as @Stlin pointed out, I forgot how financial years worked. The chart is indeed brutal.
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I think y'all're completely forgetting that 2024 is the year of shutdown after shutdown to fix the rail system. Of course the fare revenue is gonna be depressed when every other week for half the FY is free shuttle buses to replace a large segment of rail for 9+ days. FY24 had 3 Red, 6 Green, 2 Orange, and 2 Blue and counting unless I'm missing any from 2023. And thats not even including weekend closures here and there for things like the Squire and Dorchester Ave bridges, misc weekend closures, and early 8:45 cutoffs for night work.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
Green Line operator informed my girlfriend that the new fare readers will be going live very soon. I expected "This Summer" coming from the T to be September but if it's coming in the early stages of summer I'll be relatively impressed.
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I guess two months early off of 5 years (being generous) late seems like a win....
 
Also no support for monthly passes yet. LAME!


What to Know Before You Ride​

Contactless payment will only be available on bus and subway at first, though we plan to expand to other modes. It’s best for riders who don’t already have a CharlieCard or who want to pay as they go.

You should keep using your typical payment method if you:

  • Pay for transit using cash
  • Use a weekly or monthly pass
  • Ride the Commuter Rail or ferry
  • Receive a pass from your employer or school
 
Justbuildit said:
Also no support for monthly passes yet. LAME!


What to Know Before You Ride​

Contactless payment will only be available on bus and subway at first, though we plan to expand to other modes. It’s best for riders who don’t already have a CharlieCard or who want to pay as they go.

You should keep using your typical payment method if you:

  • Pay for transit using cash
  • Use a weekly or monthly pass
  • Ride the Commuter Rail or ferry
  • Receive a pass from your employer or school
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So monthly passes still have to tap at the front?
 
Yep, that's my interpretation of it. It's fine if you're subway only, as it's one contactless reader either way, but bus and above ground green line riders who have been (dare I say) diligently buying monthly passes end up needing to board the front door. Let me just buy the pass on my phone!
 
Justbuildit said:
Yep, that's my interpretation of it. It's fine if you're subway only, as it's one contactless reader either way, but bus and above ground green line riders who have been (dare I say) diligently buying monthly passes end up needing to board the front door. Let me just buy the pass on my phone!
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I’m pretty sure next year there will be new CharlieCards that will work with the readers.
 
Justbuildit said:
Yep, that's my interpretation of it. It's fine if you're subway only, as it's one contactless reader either way, but bus and above ground green line riders who have been (dare I say) diligently buying monthly passes end up needing to board the front door. Let me just buy the pass on my phone!
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I feel that my tattered old stack of Charlies with random $3 - $17 balances that I hand to out of town guests is not being appropriately honored by T decision makers here
 
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