MBTA Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Alon said:
Those are the connections between different systems in Hong Kong. But the four core MTR lines meet in cross-platform transfers, with multiple shared stations for most pairs of lines to allow reverse-direction cross-platform transfers. The East and West Rail Lines have a cross-platform transfer at Hung Hom, too.

Another example of this discrepancy is Chatelet-Les Halles, Paris's central Metro and RER station. The Metro lines are all far away from one another and have horrendous transfers, to one another and to the RER. But the transfers from the RER A to the RER B are cross-platorm, and the wrong-direction transfers and the transfers with the RER D only involve a bit of walking between platforms. That 7-minute walk from the RER A to Metro Line 7 was not the most pleasant, and I know other people who went to that conference with me who stayed at the same hostel who biked to the university or rode a bus and walked a lot, to avoid that transfer.
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Great point Alon. You're totally right. The long walks in Hong Kong are between subway and commuter rail. The cross-platform transfers on the subway system are indeed super convenient. I wish the T had been designed so expertly as to allow for them.
 
It's tough with the major transit lines intersecting at perpendicular angles in close proximity. The only subway one that comes close is the dual Orange/Green lines inbound from North Station.

I'd like to know the story behind the Orange in Bound to State Eastbound transfer - I feel like It would be easier to walk to the airport whenever I'm headed that way.
 
BPLange7 said:
It's tough with the major transit lines intersecting at perpendicular angles in close proximity. The only subway one that comes close is the dual Orange/Green lines inbound from North Station.

I'd like to know the story behind the Orange in Bound to State Eastbound transfer - I feel like It would be easier to walk to the airport whenever I'm headed that way.
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Blue Line tunnel was built first in 1904, Orange Line tunnel was built later in 1908 and had to have off set platforms because of street width and restrictions from the location of building foundations
 
BPLange7 said:
It's tough with the major transit lines intersecting at perpendicular angles in close proximity. The only subway one that comes close is the dual Orange/Green lines inbound from North Station.

I'd like to know the story behind the Orange in Bound to State Eastbound transfer - I feel like It would be easier to walk to the airport whenever I'm headed that way.
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Note colors on this map do not correspond to the current colors:

old_mbta_map.jpg


The Orange Line part of the State we know today was created by combining the former State (northbound) and Milk (southbound). It is a long and awkward walk to the Blue Line (formerly Devonshire) from former Milk. I do it every morning/evening. The screeching in the rainbow tunnel is the absolute worst.
 
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cden4 said:
Great point Alon. You're totally right. The long walks in Hong Kong are between subway and commuter rail. The cross-platform transfers on the subway system are indeed super convenient. I wish the T had been designed so expertly as to allow for them.
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This only happens when the lines are designed together. The MTR designed the four core subway lines at once, so it could make provisions for cross-platform transfers. Ditto Chatelet-Les Halles: the RER A and B were designed at once, with provisions already made for the RER D, so they have a cross-platform transfers, while the transfers to and between the older Metro lines are horrendous. BERy designed the four subway lines separately, so the transfers between them are at right angles rather than cross-platform.

Of course, the planning has to be done competently. New York designed the IND as a single system, but the IND's cross-platform transfers are mostly wrong: at 53rd and 7th, the cross-platform transfers only enable routes that have one-seat rides already, while the most useful transfer, between the Upper West Side and Queens, requires walking upstairs in both directions. Mistakes like this are why I'm so adamant that the NSRL be done right, with a Hong Kong-style sequence of three cross-platform transfer stations.
 
datadyne007 said:
Note colors on this map do not correspond to the current colors:

The Orange Line part of the State we know today was created by combining the former State (northbound) and Milk (southbound). It is a long and awkward walk to the Blue Line (formerly Devonshire) from former Milk. I do it every morning. The screeching in the rainbow tunnel is the absolute worst.
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Data -- great Map and good background

Here's another way to connect Red to Blue and provide additional benefits to the community at a relatively low cost as it only involves moving people not vehicles

Pedestrian connection directly from the State Platform of the Blue Line to the Red Line at Summer St.

The route:
  • enter the tunnel @ State Blue Line platform
  • proceed down Devonshire
  • New T entrance @ Corner of Devonshire & Franklin
  • proceed down Otis to Summer
  • exit the tunnel @ Summer St Red Line platform

The tunnel is a Logan-style moving sidewalk with non-moving sidewalk alongside

The new Entrance has the unique feature of pedestrian access with one seat ride to the Entire System:
  • walk N to Blue Line & Orange Line
    • one seat ride to North Station and CR to North
  • walk S to Red Line
    • one seat ride to South Station and Commuter Rail to S & West
    • one seat ride to South Station and Silver Line to Seaport/Innovation
    • walk to Orange Line
    • walk to Green Line

At the Universal T Entrance beside the entrance gates there can be a number of T support services as well as vendors who could be useful if you need to pick-up something, etc.

Added benefit -- more out of the lousy weather walking to more of the financial district

Anyway -- this might obviate many of the issues which we've been ruminating over about a Red-Blue connection involving extending transit lines
 
Edit:
Large, black & white version on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottomatic77/3283593168/sizes/o/

The map is from 1954 btw, as Wood Island was still Day Square & the Blue Line extension was complete.
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Here's the full map, but this version appears to be recolored for the MBTA 1965 color assignments:

Note in this map, Bowdoin was incorrectly given green because whoever made it confused Scollay Under (Blue) with Scollay Upper (Green).

MTAMapColor.jpg
 
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I hope this project will get done sooner or later. When can people expect this project to actually begin its construction, after receiving the necessary revenues to fund it? Also.... Will Bowdoin connect to Charles MGH or will the Blue Line have to stop at Charles MGH stop?
 
I might be misremembering, but I believe it's completely unfunded at the moment, right down to money for keeping the studies up to date.
 
It was taken off the table when the state settled its lawsuit about post-Big Dig transit expansion. The state argued it only had the resources for the Green Line Ext. I have a feeling that, unless this new governor decides tomorrow that he wants the R-B to be his transit legacy, this is going to sit gathering dust for some time to come.

You have to understand that most transportation projects in the US only come about after politicians hear the deafening cries of their constituents who are fed up with congestion... or someone dies. The subway itself was proposed a generation before it was built because by the 1890s trolley traffic downtown was so bad people joked it was faster to run along the tops of trolleys.

With that in mind I feel like it will be another 10 years of crushing crowds at Park St before something is done. The MBTA knows it has a problem but it also knows that a solution depends on politicians wanting to fix it.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
It was taken off the table when the state settled its lawsuit about post-Big Dig transit expansion. The state argued it only had the resources for the Green Line Ext. I have a feeling that, unless this new governor decides tomorrow that he wants the R-B to be his transit legacy, this is going to sit gathering dust for some time to come.

You have to understand that most transportation projects in the US only come about after politicians hear the deafening cries of their constituents who are fed up with congestion... or someone dies. The subway itself was proposed a generation before it was built because by the 1890s trolley traffic downtown was so bad people joked it was faster to run along the tops of trolleys.

With that in mind I feel like it will be another 10 years of crushing crowds at Park St before something is done. The MBTA knows it has a problem but it also knows that a solution depends on politicians wanting to fix it.
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I don't think the Governor will have this connection as a main priority nor as his legacy. Either way, the best we can hope for is a bunch of people petitioning the State House to fund this expansion.
 
The only way anyone will consider looking at this again is if a politician walks up with a big fat check and says "Go".
 
The only way anyone will consider this is if Seth Moulten walks up with a big check for this and Lynn. I put the over/under at 32%.
 
underground said:
The only way anyone will consider this is if Seth Moulten walks up with a big check for this and Lynn. I put the over/under at 32%.
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Uground -- its been taken out of all long term plans -- Barring something akin to Close Encounters -- only the top-level planning work will see any light for the next couple of decades minimum
 
Silly little article on silly little boston.com, but at least they are keeping the Red Line-Blue Line Connector in the boston.com readers' consciousness.

Will the MBTA ever connect the Blue and Red lines?

The re-opening of Government Center station will officially reconnect the MBTA’s Green and Blue lines, meaning all five of the system’s major transit lines touch one another at some location. With one exception.

A connection between the Red and Blue lines has been an idea under consideration in some form since at least the early 1970s. Yet no current plan exists to build the fabled “Red-Blue Connector.”

“If you had an alien coming from somewhere and studying our transportation system and looking at the MBTA, I think the first thing they’d notice is how come these two lines aren’t connected,” said Rafael Mares, a vice president at the Conservation Law Foundation.

...
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Lol at "all five of the system's major transit lines." Also, lol at "an alien coming from somewhere." Boston.com's target audience has an IQ of 75, lives in Lakeville (not that there's anything wrong with that), and has ridden the T three times this decade. The comments section consistently shows this to be the case.
 
Its only a few blocks from the State Orange stop to Downtown Crossing, a pedestrian mall underneath Washington St would be fabulous, like Montreal.
 
mtnorshore said:
Its only a few blocks from the State Orange stop to Downtown Crossing, a pedestrian mall underneath Washington St would be fabulous, like Montreal.
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I don't think the width is available below street level. They had to stagger the stations because of the narrow width between the building foundations. The underground utilities further constrict the available space.
 
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