MBTA Winter 2015: Failure and Recovery

[datadyne007]

The limited trains that are running don't need the maintenance.

And it is not like the maintenance crews are running the trains.

Getting more trains into service and running late night service are not mutually exclusive.

As Riverside stated, it was brutally cold last night. Why expose the trains to such conditions?

 

[atlantaden]

My brother, who, for years, took the Red Line into town from Braintree, said that during snowy winters the T would run the trains empty on the Red Line all night to keep the tracks free of ice and snow.

 

[alexander]

This seems reasonable, but I imagine there must be better ways to keep the tracks free of snow and ice. How do other snowier cities handle this?

My brother, who, for years, took the Red Line into town from Braintree, said that during snowy winters the T would run the trains empty on the Red Line all night to keep the tracks free of ice and snow.

 

[Matthew]

That is how it is done. I think that things got out of hand with broken down trains and the like so that they had to stop running the trains, and then the snow piled up beyond easy recovery.

 

[datadyne007]

That is how it is done. I think that things got out of hand with broken down trains and the like so that they had to stop running the trains, and then the snow piled up beyond easy recovery.

They couldn't run snow trains on Red and Orange because they lost the 3rd rail due to icing.

 

[George_Apley]

I hope that the new committee investigating the T leads to positive change, but I'm not optimistic seeing as Baker has repeatedly said that the idea of raising new revenue is a non-starter. It seems absurd to research a problem looking for solutions but rejecting possible solutions before beginning the research.

In the words of Jahvon09,

He's saying what he has to say. He hasn't said that it's a non-starter either. He's been shouting down the "revenue now" crowd saying that all options need to be examined before looking for more money. Granted that's a frustrated position for him to have considered that the system DOES need more money now, but we shouldn't expect anything less from him given his campaign promises. He doesn't sound inflexible, just cautious and typically fiscal conservative.

If he doesn't change his tune after the committee releases its findings (or if the committee hacks their findings) then I'll start criticizing. He's playing his role in this. Keep in mind the Leaders in the legislature haven't been supportive of new revenues either.

 

[George_Apley]

This seems reasonable, but I imagine there must be better ways to keep the tracks free of snow and ice. How do other snowier cities handle this?

That is how it is done. I think that things got out of hand with broken down trains and the like so that they had to stop running the trains, and then the snow piled up beyond easy recovery.

Yup, that's exactly what was happening on the Red and Orange lines. 3rd Rail iced over, trains died, snow and ice drifts and covers the tracks making them impassable.

There aren't better ways to clear the tracks of snow and ice than using non-revenue "snow trains". They have plow attachments and maintenance vehicles, but simply keeping the ROW clear via moving trains is the best way to keep it passable.

 

[winstonoboogie]

They couldn't run snow trains on Red and Orange because they lost the 3rd rail due to icing.

In the case of the Braintree line, when that train stalled between Quincy Center and Quincy Adams, the power was eventually cut so it could be evacuated (after people had been on the train for 2+ hours). They lost the line then, as the third rail became covered even more than it already was. The Ashmont line and the southern end of the Orange Line were reopened using plow trains (both conventional trains with plow-equipped trucks and the plow-equipped crane cars being pushed by a six-car consist). They tried to reopen Braintree with a plow train with the crane car, but they encountered a broken third rail near Wollaston and had to cut power again. Then it was time to bring out the prisoners with shovels and the contractors with excavating equipment.

 

[George_Apley]

He signed a no new taxes pledge as a candidate. I appreciate your reserved optimism but don't share it.

You're right that legislators have been resistant to new revenue as well which is endlessly frustrating.

He's a republican... AFAIK he did not "sign a pledge" this time around. That was in 2010. He's just said he won't raise new revenues. He's a pragmatic enough guy that he'll break that promise if need be, but he's going to push back against it, and make a show of it. It's politics.

 

[denatlanta]

In the case of the Braintree line, when that train stalled between Quincy Center and Quincy Adams, the power was eventually cut so it could be evacuated (after people had been on the train for 2+ hours). They lost the line then, as the third rail became covered even more than it already was. The Ashmont line and the southern end of the Orange Line were reopened using plow trains (both conventional trains with plow-equipped trucks and the plow-equipped crane cars being pushed by a six-car consist). They tried to reopen Braintree with a plow train with the crane car, but they encountered a broken third rail near Wollaston and had to cut power again. Then it was time to bring out the prisoners with shovels and the contractors with excavating equipment.

So, it was just a series of bad luck/equipment failures that completely screwed the Braintree line. Curious, when they cut power on the 3rd rail, does it effectively shut down the whole line or is the line governed by a series of 'circuits' where power can be cut on one part of the line but the rest of the line can still function?

 

[Finch]

So, it was just a series of bad luck/equipment failures that completely screwed the Braintree line. Curious, when they cut power on the 3rd rail, does it effectively shut down the whole line or is the line governed by a series of 'circuits' where power can be cut on one part of the line but the rest of the line can still function?

They do have a series of 3rd rail circuits, so they were able to isolate the Braintree line, or portions of it, while allowing the rest of the Red Line to run. I'm not familiar with the particular locations of the high voltage circuits.

 

[kevtron2000]

He's a republican... AFAIK he did not "sign a pledge" this time around. That was in 2010. He's just said he won't raise new revenues. He's a pragmatic enough guy that he'll break that promise if need be, but he's going to push back against it, and make a show of it. It's politics.

A good politican knows how to break promises at times, but also deliver on key issues.

My other fear is that whatever revenue is raised will be raised regressively (e.g. funding tied to an increase in the sales tax). I'll continue to be cautiously pessimistic and hope that your reserved optimism is warranted.

A major tax that actually encourages public transit usage is the gas tax and tolling. Of course, no politican is going to vote in favor of a gas tax because it is political sucicde.

 

[George_Apley]

A good politican knows how to break promises at times, but also deliver on key issues.

And I think that Charlie Baker is someone who can navigate those rough waters fairly well.

A major tax that actually encourages public transit usage is the gas tax and tolling. Of course, no politican is going to vote in favor of a gas tax because it is political sucicde.

The question is when do the American people decide to take the hit and fund infrastructure improvements? Or do we just keep deferring rebuilding because we won't pay for it and allow things to crumble around us? We are our own worst enemies.

 

[DominusNovus]

The question is when do the American people decide to take the hit and fund infrastructure improvements? Or do we just keep deferring rebuilding because we won't pay for it and allow things to crumble around us? We are our own worst enemies.

Well, I think many people are just frustrated when they don't see mich happening with their tax dollars in infrastructure. How much of the busget goes to infrastructure?

For MA it appears to be 600 mil out of 1,300 mil, not even 5%. I think that should be a higher percentage.

 

[Mongo]

In the case of the Braintree line, when that train stalled between Quincy Center and Quincy Adams, the power was eventually cut so it could be evacuated (after people had been on the train for 2+ hours). They lost the line then, as the third rail became covered even more than it already was. The Ashmont line and the southern end of the Orange Line were reopened using plow trains (both conventional trains with plow-equipped trucks and the plow-equipped crane cars being pushed by a six-car consist). They tried to reopen Braintree with a plow train with the crane car, but they encountered a broken third rail near Wollaston and had to cut power again. Then it was time to bring out the prisoners with shovels and the contractors with excavating equipment.

Why wasn't the T upfront and center with this information. All we seemed to get was "Shit's Broke, will take a few days to fix." Their PR really needs some work because if this was explained clearly it would have probably helped calm some people down.

 

[fattony]

Well, I think many people are just frustrated when they don't see mich happening with their tax dollars in infrastructure. How much of the busget goes to infrastructure?

For MA it appears to be 600 mil out of 1,300 mil, not even 5%. I think that should be a higher percentage.

There is an extra or missing zero in those numbers somewhere.

 

[datadyne007]

Why wasn't the T upfront and center with this information. All we seemed to get was "Shit's Broke, will take a few days to fix." Their PR really needs some work because if this was explained clearly it would have probably helped calm some people down.

Joe Pesaturo actually did a media blitz explaining the situation after the first two storms, but once Beverly Scott resigned, the media's attention was lost to sound bytes of the governor making angry statements and finding a strawman in the T's finances. The Globe actually did the best investigative journalism and infographics about why the T failed.

 

[Arlington]

One more picture you need to see. How far beyond normal February has been (and article at FiveThirtyEight). Note, I think that that's the "Blizzard of 78" there in the late 70s with "its month" at 36 inches. And you see 2005 was busy, and in general there is an undeniable climate change toward snowier months. Pretty much "the hockey stick" in the sudden appearance of months in the 35" to 40" range. And then our current 58.5"

 

[stefal]

I like the idea of adopting a "snow map" for Boston during snow storms; it would ease up travel congestion within the city during and after storms. Using the current underground system during snow storms is a cheap and quick fix that would ease up some of the congestion we have seen the past few weeks.
To go a step further, the map could be enlarged if/as the T expands its underground system or "caps" some of its current above ground lines. Additionally, if lines are capped/tunneled (say, for example, part of the red line,) more focus and workers can be used to clear other lines that exist above ground, and thus leading to a quicker and more efficient clearing after the snow storm. I realize that this would cost a lot of money (which we all know the T does not currently have) and the T would have to operate a top-notch system during these snow storms to avoid delays, but its just an idea.

 

[pixelsand8]

One more picture you need to see. How far beyond normal February has been (and article at FiveThirtyEight). Note, I think that that's the "Blizzard of 78" there in the late 70s with "its month" at 36 inches. And you see 2005 was busy, and in general there is an undeniable climate change toward snowier months. Pretty much "the hockey stick" in the sudden appearance of months in the 35" to 40" range. And then our current 58.5"

What's great about that graphic is that the biggest snowfall came in the first storm on what, Jan 27th? So basically this month, and that was some 27 inches. So that line should be about a third taller. Also interesting to note, almost all the snow from 2013 came from a single storm. I don't really know what to make of this graph though, there's clearly a trend to more frequent snowy years with higher accumulations (albeit nowhere near as dramatic as this year), but we still have a good number of years with little to no snow (like 2012). Also interesting to note that 78-94 is probably one of the most mild periods on the chart - 16 years under 25 inches. It looks like we missed a sacrifice or something in '94.