Millennium Tower (Filene's) | 426 Washington Street | Downtown

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Re: Filene's

BostonUrbEx said:
It's not a personal issue, though. It's about the well-being of the city as a whole. We're not talking about the developer getting under the covers with they mayor's daughter, we're talking about the developer giving a big FU to the whole city.
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I'm not disputing that fact. I'm talking about why Kensington is not receiving the same treatment. As I recalled from an article posted earlier, permits are to be pulled from a developer if they fail to construct anything three years after it is approved.
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
He didn't specifically just piss off Menino, he pissed off anyone who actually cares about this city. (Or, really, any city this dickbag operates in)
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Yeah, but can you really blame Vornado 100% for being pissed? This city basically held out a hoop and a treat and said "come on, boy!" all through the development process. It was demeaning and unprofessional and took 2 years longer than it should because everyone at the city had to have their big moment to "contribute". And Vornado was trying to give the city a HUGE tax cow! I wouldn't have been as kind as Vornado Guy.
 
Re: Filene's

KentXie said:
The conditions under which permits will be revoked when construction fails to start does not differentiate between an empty lot or a a huge crater. This is double standard no matter how you look at it.
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There is another difference, which is pointed out in the statement from the city. The Filene's hole is causing economic damage. This may not be the case with Kensington.

[edit]
To elaborate, if you have two projects that qualify for permit pulling, one is likely to have a higher priority level for the city's resources (attorneys, etc.) required to take this step. Which one should get the higher priority?
[/edit]
 
Re: Filene's

Arch101 said:
Yeah, but can you really blame Vornado 100% for being pissed? This city basically held out a hoop and a treat and said "come on, boy!" all through the development process. It was demeaning and unprofessional and took 2 years longer than it should because everyone at the city had to have their big moment to "contribute". And Vornado was trying to give the city a HUGE tax cow! I wouldn't have been as kind as Vornado Guy.
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Could you go into into more detail? I was under the impression that the city bent over backwards to get this off the ground as quickly as possible? What hoops (aside from the wholly justified historical review process) were the folks from Vornado put through?
 
Re: Filene's

HenryAlan said:
There is another difference, which is pointed out in the statement from the city. The Filene's hole is causing economic damage. This may not be the case with Kensington.

[edit]
To elaborate, if you have two projects that qualify for permit pulling, one is likely to have a higher priority level for the city's resources (attorneys, etc.) required to take this step. Which one should get the higher priority?
[/edit]
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I'm not denying that but Kensington's permits came in 2005. The threat should have happened in 2008 yet everyone in the government level acted like Kensington never exist. This isn't a question on which project caused more damage. It's the mayor harping about following regulation to the letter for certain projects and not for others. Kensington, if they learned anything from this, will keep their promise to start construction next Spring.
 
Re: Filene's

I'm fine w/ this decision. The one thing I'm wondering is will this help speed up the process of eventually getting construction started, or is this more of a FU kind of thing to Vornado?
 
Re: Filene's

GW2500 said:
I'm fine w/ this decision. The one thing I'm wondering is will this help speed up the process of eventually getting construction started, or is this more of a FU kind of thing to Vornado?
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The more and more Menino pulls the rug out from these major developers the more and more they will backlash against the city. I could see Vornado really screwing with the city now. You might not see Downtown recover for 15 or 20 years just because they hate the mayor. :(

I'm not saying what Vornado did was right but the BRA should have known if this company actually had enough financing to build at least the outside of the structure. If anything this is 100% the BRA fault. What agency would ever approve a project that lets a developer demo the sight then say sorry I actually never had anytype of financing to complete at least 70% of the project.

If I was Vornado I would sue the BRA for misleading them on the process. All Vornado has to do is compare how BRA has treated other projects that never got their permits pulled. Why should Vornado get their permit pulled but not other developers that never built on their sights?
 
Re: Filene's

While I agree with the sentiment displayed here, I think most of us here have a better idea of how development happens in this city than most. Therefore, I don't think it should come as a huge surprise that the developer who curries favor with the mayor gets a pass, so to speak, while the one (from out of town) who didn't butter up the mayor enough in order to allow the crater they created (arguably the most visible in any large city) to go 'unnoticed' by City Hall gets the book thrown at him.

I'm not saying it's right, but we have a pretty good idea of the machinations of City Hall. So how many of us are TRULY surprised that Kensington Beach is let off the hook after an even longer period of time while the Filene's Hole gets the book thrown at it?
 
Re: Filene's

erikyow said:
While I agree with the sentiment displayed here, I think most of us here have a better idea of how development happens in this city than most. Therefore, I don't think it should come as a huge surprise that the developer who curries favor with the mayor gets a pass, so to speak, while the one (from out of town) who didn't butter up the mayor enough in order to allow the crater they created (arguably the most visible in any large city) to go 'unnoticed' by City Hall gets the book thrown at him.

I'm not saying it's right, but we have a pretty good idea of the machinations of City Hall. So how many of us are TRULY surprised that Kensington Beach is let off the hook after an even longer period of time while the Filene's Hole gets the book thrown at it?
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I don't think anyone is really surprised. We're just asking for more UNBIASED consistency.
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
How did the BRA mislead Vornado on this project?
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It could go either way. But Vornado could say the entire city planning and process of our entire development was rushed without careful review of the entire economics of the plan. The BRA rushed this project through the process so now we have a hole in the ground and the developer and investors claiming it's not our fault the economy blew out. Maybe the BRA should have a better understanding of economics and financiing. The city is about to lose 10.5 million dollar loan on the W-Hotel because of lack of due diligence.

Believe me I think Vornado is scum, but overall the BRA should have never let them demo the project without making sure that at least 70% of the structure had the proper financing.
 
Re: Filene's

KentXie said:
I don't think anyone is really surprised. We're just asking for more UNBIASED consistency.
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With City Hall and the BRA?! Good luck with that! :)

Yes, for anyone paying attention, this is one of the more blatant shows of favoritism put on by City Hall and the BRA. The fact that most in the city who give a damn are more disgusted by Filene's than by Kensington (and, to an extent, I can see that - Filene's is both more unsightly and in a prominent location) means that City Hall will get a pass on this one and will logically be supported by many. Of course, for those of us keeping score, this ultimately is a strike against fairness and transparency for development in Boston.
 
Re: Filene's

The BRA is the most tainted organization in the city.

Palmeri is a little weasel
Shen is a complete moron and does whatever he is told

And the rest of the staff is politcal favors. Probably less than half of the staff have an undergrad degrees.

The organization needs to be dismantled and the assets need to go back into the private sectors hands.

The BRA is profitable but it's to tainted because of all the political connections throughout the city.

Sell off the assets and start paying down the city's debt.
 
Re: Filene's

briv said:
Why the selective treatment for this project? The demolition of Filenes took place in Spring of 2008. The demolition of half a block up the street at the Kensington site took place in spring of 2005, yet the BRA nor the mayor have ever publicly criticized that project or threatened to revoke its permits.

Not saying Vornado doesn't deserve this, but there seems to clearly be a double standard here.
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I agree. I don't think anyone believes Vornado behaved in a favorable manner, but the Mayor and BRA are really screwing things up here. Between this project, Chiofaro's, and a few others, I can't imagine this is good PR for the city and future development here. Companies that are on the outside looking in must think the people running this place are insane. Many inside already do.
 
Re: Filene's

TheRifleman said:
It could go either way. But Vornado could say the entire city planning and process of our entire development was rushed without careful review of the entire economics of the plan. The BRA rushed this project through the process so now we have a hole in the ground and the developer and investors claiming it's not our fault the economy blew out. Maybe the BRA should have a better understanding of economics and financiing. The city is about to lose 10.5 million dollar loan on the W-Hotel because of lack of due diligence.

Believe me I think Vornado is scum, but overall the BRA should have never let them demo the project without making sure that at least 70% of the structure had the proper financing.
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It's not really the city's job to do the economic forecasting for these projects. IT's to make sure that they comply with safety and build regulations as well as help develop the vision that the city has articulated for itself, whatever that may be. I am def. not a fan of the BRA and this whole process, both Filene's and across the city, but i find it ironic given your less government credo, that you want the BRA to be responsible for telling these developers whether they will make their stated return. What the BRA should require and didn't was that nothing was started until there was known money to complete it.
 
Re: Filene's

What are the BRA guidlines on financing a project of this magintude?
50%, 60% 70%? I would think that any city agency would want the outside of a structure built at all costs. Even if developer goes belly up it would still guarantee the city would have proper foundation and outside structure for the building. Then maybe another developer could finish the inside of the project.

I really don't know how they determine proper financing for a project like this but for godsakes Hynes didn't even put a foundation in.
This is common sense.

On Hynes past comments on how he got lucky on Lincoln St since he built on Spec. Which is plain bullshit. Why doesnt he wing this project?
 
Re: Filene's

KentXie said:
I'm not denying that but Kensington's permits came in 2005. The threat should have happened in 2008 yet everyone in the government level acted like Kensington never exist. This isn't a question on which project caused more damage. It's the mayor harping about following regulation to the letter for certain projects and not for others. Kensington, if they learned anything from this, will keep their promise to start construction next Spring.
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The problem with your premise is that you are comparing a rather generic apartment building in a Chinatown alley near the city's only strip clubs with a development in one of the most prominent visible and central locations in the city. It is completely unrealistic to think that the lack of progress with Kennsington would garner a fraction of the attention that the Filenes development has.
 
Re: Filene's

choo said:
It's not really the city's job to do the economic forecasting for these projects. IT's to make sure that they comply with safety and build regulations as well as help develop the vision that the city has articulated for itself, whatever that may be. I am def. not a fan of the BRA and this whole process, both Filene's and across the city, but i find it ironic given your less government credo, that you want the BRA to be responsible for telling these developers whether they will make their stated return. What the BRA should require and didn't was that nothing was started until there was known money to complete it.
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Choo my point is.

If the BRA lets a developer demo an area they need to know if at least 50% of the project can be built with proper financing?

They are responsible if they are doing the planning and processing for the city.

Vornado never had the financing.
 
Re: Filene's

I think at this point the most pressing question is going to be: how long until one of those walls falls over and kills someone?
 
Re: Filene's

GW2500 said:
I'm fine w/ this decision. The one thing I'm wondering is will this help speed up the process of eventually getting construction started, or is this more of a FU kind of thing to Vornado?
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I'm wondering this, too. So lacking permits, the plot is worth less than it would be. That is definitely a screw you to Vornado, but does it change the speed with which he can sell it? The price will now be discounted, of course, but would there have been a better chance of finding a buyer with permits already secured? If it takes longer to find a buyer, if the permitting process drags on... all of this will lead to more delay.
 
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