Millennium Tower (Filene's) | 426 Washington Street | Downtown

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Re: Filene's

Question: does anyone know if leaving the original Filenes building exposed for an extended period of time might damage it?

It looks pretty well gutted so I doubt there is much more mother nature can do to it, but hopefully this won't put that building at risk.
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
I feel really bad for Mr Hynes possibly losing so much money. It must be difficult.

My sympathy is somewhat tempered by the fact that he left a giant fucking hole in the middle of my city.
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A few pages ago I showed you the stopped Waterview tower in Chicago.

Better than a hole?

Well, Chicago has a hole too. Literally.

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Im not sure how many units have been sold, but I know the penthouse has been accounted for.


For those who dont recognize holes, this is the project on hold
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"Payments sought for work on Spire

?Tribune staff, wire reports
November 4, 2008

The list of companies seeking payment for work performed on the Chicago Spire project continues to grow.

Late last month, Thornton Tomasetti, a New York-based firm with an office in Chicago, filed a mechanics lien against the project for $1.3 million for structural engineering design services it provided. The firm said it last worked on the Shelbourne Development Group Inc. project on July 1.

Last month, architect Santiago Calatrava filed a lien through his Lente Festina Ltd. seeking more than $11.3 million in payment from developer Shelbourne.

Separately, Chicago-based architectural design firm Perkins & Will Inc. filed a lien against Shelbourne for almost $4.85 million."




So no, I dont blame Hynes. Hes far from being alone on this problem.
 
Re: Filene's

^^The only difference is that the Chicago hole is next to a highway. Ours is in the middle of the city.

Our hole also removed one of the world's most famous retail establishments.

I understand that Mr Hynes didn't cause this credit crisis, but still don't understand why he can't use available capital (his own) to complete this project.

If someone has better understanding and wants to explain it to us, please do.
 
Re: Filene's

what a fucking disaster. i feel for other business in dtx more than hynes' multi-million dollar losses, and anybody here complaining for aesthetic reasons.
 
Re: Filene's

I'm not sure anyone here is complaining solely about the aesthetics. The bitching about the hole in the ground is representative of all the problems that it brings (if that makes any sense).
 
Re: Filene's

Hynes was in this project to make money, plain and simple, as most developers are. He's not doing charity development work. He took a risk with whatever he's invested so far, and it isn't working out, so its on him. But he can also walk away from that investment if he wants to or delay it until the market comes back so he doesn't waste anymore money. Unless the city or another developer wants to buy him out. As much as people want developments such as this to move forward, we are in a very bad economic environment and I think its only gonna get worse before it gets better, so I don't blame him at all for stopping work and cutting off the cash drain.

The banks want more equity in the deal, which hurts returns to the equity holders. Unless Hynes is willing to sell his equity at a loss, then someone else would be hard pressed to come in and make it work. They'd have to underwrite it with more aggressive assumptions and more risk than what Hynes is currently doing.
 
Re: Filene's

I can accept that Hynes is it in for the profit.

But will you agree that he not just gambling with just his own money, but also with the fabric of the city, something larger than his own plot of property and that maybe (maybe) he has something of an obligation not to destroy it?
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
I can accept that Hynes is it in for the profit.

But will you agree that he not just gambling with just his own money, but also with the fabric of the city, something larger than his own plot of property and that maybe (maybe) he has something of an obligation not to destroy it?
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Okay, so we have a hole in the middle of the city...so what? Fill it in, have Hynes pay for it, and create a small park. That is worst case scenario. Hynes loses his equity, the city gets a new park. Granted, is that ideal? No. But in this economic environment, that isn't a bad alternative. Isn't having more open space better than having overdevelopment? I'd say so.
 
Re: Filene's

Ron Newman said:
I don't care why he's walking away from this project, only that he's doing so, and therefore breaking his agreement with Filene's Basement and with the city. His action is shameful. If he has to finance this by selling all of his other real estate, that's what he needs to do.
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Ron, do you honestly expect that Hynes would sell all of his other real estate to to finance this dog of a project? If the economics of the deal were so great, then getting financing (either new equity or loans) would be easy.

If you made one bad real estate deal, would you sell all of your other holdings just because the town/city/municipality was upset with the fact you couldn't make the deal work? I know I wouldn't. I'd cut my losses and regroup, which is exactly what Hynes seems to be doing.
 
Re: Filene's

Fill it in, have Hynes pay for it, and create a small park.
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It's not that simple. Right now you have two old walls at Franklin and Hawley without a building to hold them up, and you have another building without any wall on its north side, totally exposed to the elements.

Ron, do you honestly expect that Hynes would sell all of his other real estate to to finance this dog of a project?
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If he doesn't do this, isn't he breaching his agreements with both the city and Filene's Basement, which expects to re-occupy the building's lower levels next year?
 
Re: Filene's

Hynes needs to sell or build? The name of the game is Capitalism which this country has forgotten. He has put the heart of the City on their knees.

Whatever happen to companies who can't get the job done that they take a loss and move on. I guess that doesn't happen anymore. Good old fashion Capitalism has turned into Communism under this government.

I will bet all my money that the CITY bails out this project.
The taxpayers will save this project.
Tax incentives across the board for Vornado & Hynes. The city might even throw in Free Foundation.
 
Re: Filene's

smw2340 said:
Okay, so we have a hole in the middle of the city...so what? Fill it in, have Hynes pay for it, and create a small park. That is worst case scenario. Hynes loses his equity, the city gets a new park. Granted, is that ideal? No. But in this economic environment, that isn't a bad alternative. Isn't having more open space better than having overdevelopment? I'd say so.
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^ Nonsense.
 
Re: Filene's

I agree. Filling in the hole now only means another developer will eventually have to dig it out again.

Maybe it can become a temporary skating rink?
 
Re: Filene's

Ron Newman said:
It's not that simple. Right now you have two old walls at Franklin and Hawley without a building to hold them up, and you have another building without any wall on its north side, totally exposed to the elements.
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Well it is a lot easier than building the building, which doesn't look promising right now


Ron Newman said:
If he doesn't do this, isn't he breaching his agreements with both the city and Filene's Basement, which expects to re-occupy the building's lower levels next year?
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I don't know. I'm sure if he is they can sue the LLC that was created to develop the project.
 
Re: Filene's

Say you hire a contractor to build an addition on to your house. He shows you the designs and they look good. You agree to the work. The contractor comes in the next week and rips off a side of you house in preparation for the addition. The next day the contractor comes over and tells you he is not making enough money and has decided to become an accountant, so he won't be finishing the job.

Do you say "Oh well, that was a risk I took" and live with a giant hole in your house or do you hire a new contractor?

BTW What is stopping the city from declaring this as blight and taking it by ED and selling it to a new developer at price that would make it economically viable to build?
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
Say you hire a contractor to build an addition on to your house. He shows you the designs and they look good. You agree to the work. The contractor comes in the next week and rips off a side of you house in preparation for the addition. The next day the contractor comes over and tells you he is not making enough money and has decided to become an accountant, so he won't be finishing the job.

Do you say "Oh well, that was a risk I took" and live with a giant hole in your house or do you hire a new contractor?

BTW What is stopping the city from declaring this as blight and taking it by ED and selling it to a new developer at price that would make it economically viable to build?
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I don't think that is an accurate comparison. The contractor does not put their money at risk as Hynes has done. If the contractor spent all the money then walked away, what would you care? Like you said, just hire another contractor and have him get started. But, most likely you've been paying the contractor to do the work and reimburse him for any material expense, which the City and BRA have not been doing.
 
Re: Filene's

You are right in two ways: 1. I should have included that the contractor spent money on materials for the job before walking away.
2. It is a poor comparison because the city doesn't have the option of hiring a new contractor to finish the job. We are stuck with the hole. Unless the City goes with the ED idea.
 
Re: Filene's

TheRifleman said:
Good old fashion Capitalism has turned into Communism under this government.
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Which government?

I will bet all my money that the CITY bails out this project.
The taxpayers will save this project.
Tax incentives across the board for Vornado & Hynes. The city might even throw in Free Foundation.
Click to expand...
As you say, business just can't hack it alone anymore. We're all living with the aftermath of the fallacy that unregulated business does it best. Based on the evidence, don't we need to extend "Good old fashion Capitalism" a little less credit for knowing what it's doing?
 
Re: Filene's

Hey guys, we are blaming the wrong people here. We should be blaming Macy for buying Filene's and starting all of this. If it wasn't for them, Filene's will still be here and we would have a gigantic hole in the downtown fabric.









And for those that might have missed it, I am being sarcastic.
 
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