Missing HSR Corridor Designations

To be honest, 3700 daily riders seems a little high to me. 3000-3200 seems closer to what the actual number should be.

Still, it's great news and I'm happy.

For that corridor it should be closer to 45,000 , about 190,000 use I-91 daily , so it shouldn't be that low....about 260,000 commute into Hartford , Springfield and New Haven daily...
 
Now I will tackle the Light Rail and some of Interchange Transit stations which fill in the rest of the station void...I added even more...

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.00049110c2f416653cba3&msa=0&ll=41.766703,-71.342468&spn=0.333404,0.837021


Coventry Light Rail , this line would use the old Rail Trail which would be a tough sell however the benefits would outweigh the negatives , this line would be double tracked to Warwick and Single tracked to Coventry. I would Expect this corridor to see 24,000 daily Riders
Coventry Town Hall - Coventry
Station Street - Coventry
West Warwick Ave - West Warwick
Legion Way - West Warwick
Providence Street - West Warwick
Hay Street - West Warwick
Toll Gate Road - Warwick
East Ave - Warwick
Wilbur Ave - Cranston
Dean Street - Cranston
Uxbridge Street - Cranston
Park Ave - Cranston
Gansett Ave - Cranston
Carolina Street - Cranston
(Turns onto Cranston Street , begins Street running)
Potters Ave - Providence
Messer Street - Providence
Bridgham Street - Providence
Cahir Street - Providence
(Turns onto dean Street)
(Then Turns on Broadway)
Empire Street - Providence
City Hall Park
(turns onto Exchange Street)

Providence Transit Center


Bristol Branch , this line would reuse a Rail trail , aswell as the East Side Transit Tunnel , I think Ridership would be enough for this line. It would Service Universitys , Tourist traps and dense areas...this line would be a combo of a Tram - train similar to NJT Riverline but Electric , the line would be double tracked from Providence to Warren , then single tracked till Bristol with sidings. I would expect 45,000 daily Riders to use this line.
Providence Transit Center
Kennedy Plaza
North Main Street
Thayer street
(Turns onto Hope Street)
Waterman Street
Power Street
Wickenden Street
(Crosses Round Cove via a Cable Stayed Bridge)
Bold Point Park - East Providence
Lincoln Ave - East Providence
Crestview Ave - East Providence
Washington Road - Barrington
County Road - Barrington
Market Street - Warren
Main Street - Warren
Mulburry Road - Warren
(Begins Street Running along Hope Street in Bristol)
Thames Street - Bristol
Bradford Street - Bristol
Church Street - Bristol
Burton Street - Bristol
(Turns onto Ferry Street in Bristol)
Rodger Williams University - Bristol


I-195 Xpress Rail , This corridor would be double tracked the whole way , servicing a population of 470,000 people and a under deserved region of New England...I would say 80,000 would use this line a day...
Providence Transit Center
Kennedy Plaza
North Main Street
Thayer street
(Turns onto Hope Street)
Waterman Street
Power Street
Wickenden Street
(Crosses Round Cove via a Cable Stayed Bridge)
Bold Point Park - East Providence
Lincoln Ave - East Providence
Crestview Ave - East Providence
Washington Road - Barrington
County Road - Barrington
Market Street - Warren
Metacom Ave - Warren
Swansea Shore
(Enters Tunnel near Power Station , continues under the Bay)
Fall River Waterfront (Underground)
Fall River Downtown (Underground)
Plymouth Ave (Underground)
(Continues Underground , emerges aboveground in the I-195 Median)
Route 24 Park & Ride
(Turns off I-195 heads towards US 6 , turns onto US 6 in Dartmouth , continues in the median)
Cross Road - University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth
Old Westport Road - Dartmouth
Slocum Road - Dartmouth
(Descends into a Tunnel in New Bedford)
Rockdale Ave - New Bedford (Underground)
Cottage Street - New Bedford (Underground)
New Bedford City Center (Underground)
New Bedford Waterfront (Underground)
(Continues Under the Bay)
Fair Haven
(Emerges from the Tunnel)
Sconticut Road - Fair Haven
Mattapoisett
(Heads Towards I-195 and rides in the Median)
(Breaks off near Wareham)
Wareham Transit Center


Streetcars , Streetcars would spur Urban Renewal , add more riders to the system and fill the the miss connections..


Warwick Streetcar - 15,000
East - West Connector - 12,000
Cranston Streetcar - 17,000
South Streetcar - 9,200
East Providence Connection - 18,400
Fox Point Streetcar - 4,700
Mount Pleasant Streetcar - 3,400
North Providence Streetcar - 6,100
Pawtucket Streetcar - 21,000
Darlington Streetcar -2,100
 
For that corridor it should be closer to 45,000 , about 190,000 use I-91 daily , so it shouldn't be that low....about 260,000 commute into Hartford , Springfield and New Haven daily...

I don't think anyone truly knows because it's a long-term growth corridor. What it really hinges on is all the office parks getting their private shuttle buses out to the stations. While it does hit the central business districts of the 3 major cities en route it is more of a decentralized reverse-commute type line. Metro North is doing a robust business with that...it's basically their future growth strategy since all the commuters that are ever going to hit GCC are pretty much already riding there. So there is good in-state precedent. I-91 does have its glut of office parks, and the insurance HQ's in the state are really salivating over this. But success is going to mean pounding away at those last-mile public-private partnerships as they ramp up.

Chances of success I think are outstanding. Any way you slice it it's faster than godawful and unexpandable I-91, but even moreso if it's 90 MPH+ (CDOT's Shore Line East diesel fleet, which is going to be assigned here after the M8 EMU's take over SLE, is rated that fast). And I think it is truly going to be a revelation for easy flying out of Bradley. But I hope nobody gets indignant when the ridership is light on the startup service. This is long-term, constant-effort, constant connectivity push type stuff. But at least everyone's got eyes on prize for it.



BTW...for high costs, keep in mind that the goals are twofold: commuter rail, and developing an NEC primary branch that in 30 years will be brought up to Keystone Line spec infrastructurally. While it is Class 4, cab signaled track now the state of good repair on it is overall pretty abysmal. The grade crossing protection is old and speed-restricted, there are structurally deficient bridges also speed-restricted, there are old switches also speed-restricted, places on it are flood-prone because the culverts suck, they not only have to double-track but throw in several freight turnouts because it has the highest-frequency freight schedule in the state used by 3 different carriers, they have to add several interlockings because it's not set up for very frequent headways, and going from Class 4 to Class 6 speed is not altogether trivial when it involves re-graded curves and replacing a whole slew of slower interlockings. And to do >80 MPH through grade crossings they have to replace the crossing protection with maximally expensive timed gates and/or quad gates like on the NEC Shoreline (Wallingford and Meriden clusters will still be speed restricted...but they can be faster-speed restricted and the restrictions can be outright lifted on many others).

Think of how many billions in backlog the NEC and Empire Corridors have just on bridges and other bedrock infrastructure. And then consider that part of that $800M is startup costs for commuter rail (ops, ticketing, staff), and constructing a small full-service maintenance facility at Springfield layover...stuff we wouldn't have to consider with any new MBCR extension. Then 4 new stations, 2 relocated stations that are full-rebuild, every remaining station (in generally lousy condition) getting first-time ADA upgrades, new fiber network infrastructure to run the ticket machines and stop announcements, and lots of building and parking lot repairs/expansion to the generally cruddy condition of the current stops. And it's always the stations and ops where cost bloat comes from and has to be liberally padded.

I wouldn't call $800M efficient by any means, but it's pretty much par work as South Coast Rail for $1.2B less while still having startup and intercity-speed premium items that project lacks. And they do NOT have abutting NIMBY problems with hostage-taking over sound fences and whatnot...there's little if any of that type of abatement. The good news is that once you get all this out of the way and get such old infrastructure up to a Class 6 speed threshold, electrification and Class 7 speed is a smaller step up. The NEC had its wires and HSR upgrades to Boston installed at-cost 12 years ago...but only after a similar 15-year slog getting the baseline infrastructure up to top diesel speed. There won't be any new stations to construct or modify when that time comes here. Save for downtown-impacts mitigation in downtown Wallingford and Meriden the grade crossings are mostly abutter-free or industrial abutter and can be done at-cost for the infrastructure. It'll be expensive--three-quarters $B--but it won't be 25% NIMBY contingency expensive. All of it (literally) is concrete infrastructure. And par for the cost of doing similar to the Keystone and Empire Corridors.


Here's an EIS-related project doc showing some of the baseline infrastructure upgrades they're doing: http://www.nhhsrail.com/pdfs/ea/nhhs_fonsi.pdf. p.2 has the laundry list of bridge and grade crossing rebuilds...south-of-Windsor only. They haven't even tackled the huge speed-restricted Conn. River Bridge in Windsor Locks, the structurally deficient (but not yet critical) Hartford station viaduct, and the impacts of getting those long spans re-rated to the 286,000 lb. freight car spec badly needed by all those carriers. One of the other project docs which I can't locate has the complete list of bridges and culverts on the whole line. In total 50 of them are getting some sort of repair, and about 1/4 of them major repair. That's not chopped liver. This line was/is falling the hell apart end-to-end.
 
Chances of success I think are outstanding. Any way you slice it it's faster than godawful and unexpandable I-91, but even moreso if it's 90 MPH+ (CDOT's Shore Line East diesel fleet, which is going to be assigned here after the M8 EMU's take over SLE, is rated that fast).

Whoa, back up a second.

This is happening? Seriously? When?
 
Whoa, back up a second.

This is happening? Seriously? When?

That was the grant award. They got the project-wide impacts approval for the final EIS on all trackage south of Windsor station, so the feds released a large previously-promised funding dump. The only hurdles left for the final EIS to be 100% approved are Windsor-Springfield (which doesn't have any pre-committed funding...except for Springfield station) and localized impact approvals at job site-specific locations. But since those are handled individually they can start work now on minimal ground-impact stuff like the full double-tracking installation, PTC, and interlockings in 2013 (probably too late for construction this Fall, but the surveyors have been out on the line all summer). Then the heavy bridge/culvert work and grade crossing rehab. Then stations. Gradual speed and increases bit by bit on the Regionals and Vermonter over the course of the next 3 years until 10 minutes come off the schedule. Eventually they will hit 110 MPH on the straightest, least-restricted segments, 90 elsewhere, and 60-80 on the most-constrained segments that are currently only 25-40, with the upgraded crossing protection allowing full speeds on the isolated crossings just like the NEC and something a shitload better than the current 25 MPH through downtown Wallingford and Meriden.


Shore Line East goes all-EMU in 2014 when the M8 order is completely delivered, so the SLE push-pull diesels will get pulled offline and rehabbed along with several extra diesels they have in long-term storage. 2016 startup with that ex-SLE fleet on a limited schedule, 90 MPH commuter rail speeds. The new infill stations and 2 relocated stations (Windsor Locks and, I think, Meriden) go last and open one-by-one, then they get their maint facility in Springfield to support a full-blast schedule.


Yes, this is happening. The money's now in place to start digging, and the Amtrak-impacts stuff is ready to roll. I think CDOT in 2016 is still a little optimistic because ops and ticketing for a startup service aren't trivial to launch, and the schedule is always prone to slipping on new stations. But they don't have to purchase any rolling stock to serve the existing stops so with the track work a-go their deadlines are more administrative than anything else.
 
If Shore Line East goes all EMU, is it possible that it could extend to Stonington/Westerly?
 
If Shore Line East goes all EMU, is it possible that it could extend to Stonington/Westerly?

The second RIDOT gets to Westerly, CDOT plans to do exactly that. Will add Mystic and Westerly to the New London schedule, share the Westerly layover yard with RIDOT, and have some sort of fare system compatibility for transfers at Westerly.
 
The second RIDOT gets to Westerly, CDOT plans to do exactly that. Will add Mystic and Westerly to the New London schedule, share the Westerly layover yard with RIDOT, and have some sort of fare system compatibility for transfers at Westerly.
Why the holdup with waiting for RIDOT? I can't imagine there'd be that much demand for transfers with how limited SLE's New London service is.
 
Why the holdup with waiting for RIDOT? I can't imagine there'd be that much demand for transfers with how limited SLE's New London service is.

1) They have to wait for the tail end of the M8 order before SLE goes electric. 2 more years to go on those deliveries. 2) They have to retrofit the remaining single-platform intermediate stations with 2 platforms and upgrade the last low-level platform intermediate stops with highs (M8's are high-only boarding) before they can operate fuller service. 3) They need to build a layover yard in New London before extending all service there. 4) The Conn. River Bridge in Old Saybrook is in final design for replacement by a higher span. The higher span, with fewer bridge openings, is needed before all service can extend from Old Saybrook to New London. 5) Amtrak has to renovate Westerly as a 3-track station with high platforms before any CR service can use it. Westerly is planned after they finish similar upgrades to Kingston first. 6) Amtrak has to raise the platforms at Mystic before M8's can stop there, and New London's awkward mix of a very short high platform with mostly lows has to be 100% raised--at considerable expense because of curves, a historic station building, and the nearby grade crossings--before SLE can operate past-NL service without fouling Amtrak or freights.


It's a lot of short-term busywork that'll take a solid 4 years. Maybe 5 or 6 for the pricey New London retrofit. By that point RIDOT should have its start date pegged on the calendar and it'll be better to just coordinate starts instead of beating them to the punch. CDOT wants it, but they've got to get the existing service up to spec and fully congestion-mitigated for Amtrak first.
 
The second RIDOT gets to Westerly, CDOT plans to do exactly that. Will add Mystic and Westerly to the New London schedule, share the Westerly layover yard with RIDOT, and have some sort of fare system compatibility for transfers at Westerly.

I'm convinced that this is going to be what finally kills Mystic as an Amtrak stop.

Amtrak hasn't exactly made a big secret of how much they hate stopping there, with the great majority of Regionals going through without stopping and the station itself staffed entirely by volunteers. The second they can foist that station off on any other operator, I'd bet anything that they will.

I would like to know why Westerly is being deferred until after Kingston is completed, however. Is there some pressing reason why track work / platform raising can't happen at both locations concurrently?
 
I would like to know why Westerly is being deferred until after Kingston is completed, however. Is there some pressing reason why track work / platform raising can't happen at both locations concurrently?

1) It's a busier station that's non-ADA.

2) Some MBCR Wickford trains have to deadhead to Kingston for turnbacks to avoid fouling the mainline during Amtrak schedule slots. There's track work bundled in with this to cut that awkwardness out and allow for additional Wickford runs.

3) $$$. One small appropriation at a time. Westerly's grant app is up next.
 
I don't think anyone truly knows because it's a long-term growth corridor. What it really hinges on is all the office parks getting their private shuttle buses out to the stations. While it does hit the central business districts of the 3 major cities en route it is more of a decentralized reverse-commute type line. Metro North is doing a robust business with that...it's basically their future growth strategy since all the commuters that are ever going to hit GCC are pretty much already riding there. So there is good in-state precedent. I-91 does have its glut of office parks, and the insurance HQ's in the state are really salivating over this. But success is going to mean pounding away at those last-mile public-private partnerships as they ramp up.

Chances of success I think are outstanding. Any way you slice it it's faster than godawful and unexpandable I-91, but even moreso if it's 90 MPH+ (CDOT's Shore Line East diesel fleet, which is going to be assigned here after the M8 EMU's take over SLE, is rated that fast). And I think it is truly going to be a revelation for easy flying out of Bradley. But I hope nobody gets indignant when the ridership is light on the startup service. This is long-term, constant-effort, constant connectivity push type stuff. But at least everyone's got eyes on prize for it.



BTW...for high costs, keep in mind that the goals are twofold: commuter rail, and developing an NEC primary branch that in 30 years will be brought up to Keystone Line spec infrastructurally. While it is Class 4, cab signaled track now the state of good repair on it is overall pretty abysmal. The grade crossing protection is old and speed-restricted, there are structurally deficient bridges also speed-restricted, there are old switches also speed-restricted, places on it are flood-prone because the culverts suck, they not only have to double-track but throw in several freight turnouts because it has the highest-frequency freight schedule in the state used by 3 different carriers, they have to add several interlockings because it's not set up for very frequent headways, and going from Class 4 to Class 6 speed is not altogether trivial when it involves re-graded curves and replacing a whole slew of slower interlockings. And to do >80 MPH through grade crossings they have to replace the crossing protection with maximally expensive timed gates and/or quad gates like on the NEC Shoreline (Wallingford and Meriden clusters will still be speed restricted...but they can be faster-speed restricted and the restrictions can be outright lifted on many others).

Think of how many billions in backlog the NEC and Empire Corridors have just on bridges and other bedrock infrastructure. And then consider that part of that $800M is startup costs for commuter rail (ops, ticketing, staff), and constructing a small full-service maintenance facility at Springfield layover...stuff we wouldn't have to consider with any new MBCR extension. Then 4 new stations, 2 relocated stations that are full-rebuild, every remaining station (in generally lousy condition) getting first-time ADA upgrades, new fiber network infrastructure to run the ticket machines and stop announcements, and lots of building and parking lot repairs/expansion to the generally cruddy condition of the current stops. And it's always the stations and ops where cost bloat comes from and has to be liberally padded.

I wouldn't call $800M efficient by any means, but it's pretty much par work as South Coast Rail for $1.2B less while still having startup and intercity-speed premium items that project lacks. And they do NOT have abutting NIMBY problems with hostage-taking over sound fences and whatnot...there's little if any of that type of abatement. The good news is that once you get all this out of the way and get such old infrastructure up to a Class 6 speed threshold, electrification and Class 7 speed is a smaller step up. The NEC had its wires and HSR upgrades to Boston installed at-cost 12 years ago...but only after a similar 15-year slog getting the baseline infrastructure up to top diesel speed. There won't be any new stations to construct or modify when that time comes here. Save for downtown-impacts mitigation in downtown Wallingford and Meriden the grade crossings are mostly abutter-free or industrial abutter and can be done at-cost for the infrastructure. It'll be expensive--three-quarters $B--but it won't be 25% NIMBY contingency expensive. All of it (literally) is concrete infrastructure. And par for the cost of doing similar to the Keystone and Empire Corridors.


Here's an EIS-related project doc showing some of the baseline infrastructure upgrades they're doing: http://www.nhhsrail.com/pdfs/ea/nhhs_fonsi.pdf. p.2 has the laundry list of bridge and grade crossing rebuilds...south-of-Windsor only. They haven't even tackled the huge speed-restricted Conn. River Bridge in Windsor Locks, the structurally deficient (but not yet critical) Hartford station viaduct, and the impacts of getting those long spans re-rated to the 286,000 lb. freight car spec badly needed by all those carriers. One of the other project docs which I can't locate has the complete list of bridges and culverts on the whole line. In total 50 of them are getting some sort of repair, and about 1/4 of them major repair. That's not chopped liver. This line was/is falling the hell apart end-to-end.

At first yes Ridership may be low like 10,000 , but that's not uncommon then over a period of 5 years as people and businesses get used to the line I would expect Ridership to climb to 45,000 maybe 50,000 same goes for the South Coast line....You can't write it off... I think it needs to be Electrified which was the original plan , that would be sense for a cost of 800 million +.


The Empire Corridor only needs 30 miles of tracks replaced , The Hudson station needs high level platforms , Albany needs another track and platform , doube tracking to Schenectady and a New Station which become the Northern Terminus of most of the Empire Service , A few bridges need replacing and Electrification... Which is only expected to cost 1.6 billion , then a New Commuter Rail service between Albany and Schenectady is proposed.
 
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At first yes Ridership may be low like 10,000 , but that's not uncommon then over a period of 5 years as people and businesses get used to the line I would expect Ridership to climb to 45,000 maybe 50,000 same goes for the South Coast line....You can't write it off... I think it needs to be Electrified which was the original plan , that would be sense for a cost of 800 million +.

The entire T commuter rail system has, what, 150k daily riders? And you think SCR is going to get 50k? Whatever you're smoking, I want some.
 
The entire T commuter rail system has, what, 150k daily riders? And you think SCR is going to get 50k? Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

Most T stations don't have TOD around them like down here , so ridership is 150k....it seems that there really pushing TOD for the SCR Project at all stations so I expect ridership to be higher then the projects by the station double at first. Then climbing to 45-70k....thrown in lines to Buzzards Bay and Cape Cod add another 5,000....and over to Providence and down to Newport add another 25,000. Its not that hard to see , I don't know why its such a hard reality to grasp.... TOD has caused Metro North and NJT Ridership to double at certain stations as high as 10,000....and the mega projects haven't begun yet... If The T pushes a strong TOD policy on the commuter rail like in Brockton or along the Fairmount line or in Salem or Lawrence or Worcester....and the towns in between...
 
2) Some MBCR Wickford trains have to deadhead to Kingston for turnbacks to avoid fouling the mainline during Amtrak schedule slots. There's track work bundled in with this to cut that awkwardness out and allow for additional Wickford runs.

Oh. Oh, I see.

...

Why was Wickford Junction built, again? More importantly, why aren't any of those turnbacks at Kingston revenue service moves?

Most T stations don't have TOD around them like down here , so ridership is 150k....it seems that there really pushing TOD for the SCR Project at all stations so I expect ridership to be higher then the projects by the station double at first. Then climbing to 45-70k....thrown in lines to Buzzards Bay and Cape Cod add another 5,000....and over to Providence and down to Newport add another 25,000. Its not that hard to see , I don't know why its such a hard reality to grasp.... TOD has caused Metro North and NJT Ridership to double at certain stations as high as 10,000....and the mega projects haven't begun yet... If The T pushes a strong TOD policy on the commuter rail like in Brockton or along the Fairmount line or in Salem or Lawrence or Worcester....and the towns in between...

TOD is not going to do what you think it is going to do, even assuming that TOD gets built (I'd bet against it.) The idea of the T pushing a strong TDO policy is laughable as well.

People do not change easily. That's the reality. Numbers like the ones you're throwing out here require people to be inspired to change, en masse, and quickly. And it just won't happen.

I'm going to make an educated guess you're a resident of New Jersey? To illustrate my point, pick a train line that runs parallel to an interstate or other highway. Any train line you want. I want you to get on that train and just look out the window at the great many numbers of cars stuck in traffic.

That's 80% of America. Those are the people who would all need to abandon their cars within the first year of service, if not on day 1.

And they're just not going to, I'm sorry to say. Your train will probably not be full - in fact, I'd bet on a reasonable number of seats being open. Certainly, enough to accomodate anyone sitting in that traffic who wanted to make the switch.

Before you can throw out numbers like what you're giving here, you have to come up with the reason why those drivers aren't switching and correct that.

I promise you it's not as cut and dried as 'more TOD!'
 
Why was Wickford Junction built, again? More importantly, why aren't any of those turnbacks at Kingston revenue service moves?

The crossovers are about 2/3 mile north of the station, so they don't actually reach the Kingston platform to reverse direction. It's also only for a small minority of trains that border schedule gaps where the next Wickford inbound doesn't immediately follow the outbound. To deadhead back to Providence for the next run the equipment has to get off that 3rd track turnout, and the only way to do that is haul out near Kingston. When it's a back-to-back on the Wickford schedule they just reverse directions right on the Wickford platform. Temporary inconvenience until they do more crossover work outside of Wickford and can flush the Wickford schedule a little fuller. They'll stop doing that by next summer.


T doesn't want to go to Kingston because that stretches the Providence schedule like taffy and they just don't have the slots or equipment to swing it. Maybe if they isolate the new locos + coaches to the NEC to bump running speeds to 90 MPH, and Amtrak does the 3rd track to Canton Jct. to de-congest the inner portion. But don't forget...they're adding Pawtucket as a full-schedule stop soon (final design underway). There's a ceiling for number of runs X stops past Providence before it starts constraining the number of future infill slots they can add terminating at Providence. When South County service starts Cranston also gets dropped in as an infill between Providence and T.F. Green, so realistically the T has to draw a line in the sand before Kingston. Probably even drop Wickford entirely when the full-blast South County schedule is running, hand it fully over to RIDOT, and terminate all Boston directs at the airport.
 
T doesn't want to go to Kingston because that stretches the Providence schedule like taffy and they just don't have the slots or equipment to swing it. Maybe if they isolate the new locos + coaches to the NEC to bump running speeds to 90 MPH, and Amtrak does the 3rd track to Canton Jct. to de-congest the inner portion. But don't forget...they're adding Pawtucket as a full-schedule stop soon (final design underway). There's a ceiling for number of runs X stops past Providence before it starts constraining the number of future infill slots they can add terminating at Providence. When South County service starts Cranston also gets dropped in as an infill between Providence and T.F. Green, so realistically the T has to draw a line in the sand before Kingston. Probably even drop Wickford entirely when the full-blast South County schedule is running, hand it fully over to RIDOT, and terminate all Boston directs at the airport.

Right, I'm insinuating that instead of building Wickford Junction, they should have poured that money and manpower into the work being done on Kingston now, so that we'd have three tracks, high level platforms and (possibly) a garage at Kingston right now, we'd be working on Westerly right now, and all current Wickford trains would be going to Kingston instead.

Realistically, they're dropping Wickford. They have to. I'm nowhere near convinced that they'll be running all their existing Providence trains to the Airport - they won't be dropping it entirely, but I can't see them running more than 50% of their trains there.

Where do we stand on 4-tracking Warwick-Providence and electrifying the Airport platform? If and when Amtrak picks up the Airport as a stop, are they going to use the existing platform at all?
 
Right, I'm insinuating that instead of building Wickford Junction, they should have poured that money and manpower into the work being done on Kingston now, so that we'd have three tracks, high level platforms and (possibly) a garage at Kingston right now, we'd be working on Westerly right now, and all current Wickford trains would be going to Kingston instead.

Realistically, they're dropping Wickford. They have to. I'm nowhere near convinced that they'll be running all their existing Providence trains to the Airport - they won't be dropping it entirely, but I can't see them running more than 50% of their trains there.

Where do we stand on 4-tracking Warwick-Providence and electrifying the Airport platform? If and when Amtrak picks up the Airport as a stop, are they going to use the existing platform at all?

Kingston is Amtrak-owned, so it was their appropriation that's doing the renovations. As it will at Westerly. Wickford and Green are both RIDOT-built and owned. That's why. Wouldn't have been worth RIDOT's while to scoop up and renovate Kingston if it nullified the future Amtrak appropriation and their money could be better used to check an infill stop off the wishlist. The need for such a ginormous parking lot is open for criticism, but they played their cards correctly opting for Wickford.


Green is built for add-on platforms. They only needed one unelectrified side platform for starter service, but the tracks are spaced for another side platform with 4th track when CR goes full-service, full electrification, an island platform provision for the center tracks payable by Amtrak when they opt to add the airport to the Regionals schedule, and a gauntlet track around the current platform for wide P&W freights to pass through to Port of Davisville. Building is pre-prepped for access to each future platform. Wickford also gets a second side platform with 4th track added before any continuing instate CR service initiates to Kingston, and Amtrak would express unimpeded on the 2 center tracks.

Cranston, East Greenwich, and West Davisville would be set up exactly the same as Wickford w/4 total tracks, 2 side platforms, and 2 center express tracks.
 
Oh. Oh, I see.

...

Why was Wickford Junction built, again? More importantly, why aren't any of those turnbacks at Kingston revenue service moves?



TOD is not going to do what you think it is going to do, even assuming that TOD gets built (I'd bet against it.) The idea of the T pushing a strong TDO policy is laughable as well.

People do not change easily. That's the reality. Numbers like the ones you're throwing out here require people to be inspired to change, en masse, and quickly. And it just won't happen.

I'm going to make an educated guess you're a resident of New Jersey? To illustrate my point, pick a train line that runs parallel to an interstate or other highway. Any train line you want. I want you to get on that train and just look out the window at the great many numbers of cars stuck in traffic.

That's 80% of America. Those are the people who would all need to abandon their cars within the first year of service, if not on day 1.

And they're just not going to, I'm sorry to say. Your train will probably not be full - in fact, I'd bet on a reasonable number of seats being open. Certainly, enough to accomodate anyone sitting in that traffic who wanted to make the switch.

Before you can throw out numbers like what you're giving here, you have to come up with the reason why those drivers aren't switching and correct that.

I promise you it's not as cut and dried as 'more TOD!'

It is down here , and in Philly and the DC region...why would the Boston region be any different? Most Railways down here except the New Haven line run about 4-8 miles from an Interstate...so the Interstate towns are auto centric to the max while the Railway towns are the opposite... NJT and the state have had a TOD Policy in affect since 1992...and over 170 towns have joined in...and reaped the benefits. The DC Region took NJT ideas and lead and applied it to Alexandria and DC itself , then the MTA started taking interest in TOD for the MNRR and beeline system in 2006...then Septa in 2008 took Interest and now the MBTA has expressed Interest in 2010...why wouldn't it cause ridership to explode up there when it has down here?
 

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