More use for Cambridge's rail line

yes, and the MBTA uses it to move commuter-rail equipment between the north and south sides. You can't convert it to light rail while these uses still exist.
 
I'm not sure it should be converted to light rail, either. I just don't think it's a good idea to have a constant stream of rail traffic crossing Mass Ave. at a busy location in the heart of the city. I'm assuming whatever MBTA movement and freight trains that cross happen rarely, and probably at very off-peak hours, whereas commuter rail would necessarily operate more frequently at rush hour.

I mean, there's a movement toward grade separation even in the countryside. It's ridiculous to have a frequently used street crossing here.
 
Theres a produce run to Chelsea Produce Market every morning which comes back every day. Both ways via the Grand Junction. The MBTA has just one "ballast train" which moves over this every time it's needed on the south side. And depending on how much they need, this could happen every day. There's just one railwasher train, too, which will be moved around throughout the fall season between sides this way. Any major problems with locomotives or equipment (happening all the time, especially this winter) will result in that piece of equipment being towed to BET via the junction. And various other moves and MOW equipment.

And all of this: At 10 MPH! Max! If this goes through, there will be extensive upgrades made, so how exactly is a 30 (who knows, maybe we could get it to 40) MPH train once an hour (if EVERY Worcester train was routed this way, which it won't, maybe 5-10 a day) disrupt traffic MORE than these 10 MPH moves?
 
/\ /\ /\ This, and also, on disrupting traffic, I say GOOD!

DISRUPT THE TRAFFIC! Trains moving on rails are "traffic" just as much as cars moving on roads. Why are cars the holy idol we all must bow down and worship? I say disrupt traffic and encourage people to think about other ways of getting around!! I can't believe the commies in the Ppl's Republik haven't come up with this argument already.
 
Blocking the rail crossings with slow-moving or stopped trains prevents all other way of getting around as well: walking, bicycling, rollerskating, and many buses (especially the crowded and frequent #1 on Mass. Ave., but also at least six other bus lines)
 
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Personally, I think converting this corridor to LRT makes the most sense.
 
Ron, if your reasoning is mostly around the need for the N-S link in the CR system, then I don't see why two uses - LRT and CR - can't be time separated, with CR running on those tracks only after regular service hours. The FRA has allowed this kind of time separation between heavy and light rail on the same tracks in other instances.
 
I'm not sure that the commuter rail equipment moves can always be scheduled for between 1 and 5 am (especially if a breakdown or other emergency is forcing the move), and there's also the freight traffic to consider. If it's produce, you don't really want to make it wait a day.
 
GW2500 said:
Is comuter rail crossing a street that much different (in terms of disruption) than a cross street getting a green light (and Mass Ave a red)?
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Yes. It's less disruptive than a cross street getting a green signal. It happens at a much lower frequency, even on the busiest rail lines. Auto traffic will back up, but it will dissipate quickly after the gates go up.
 
First off, the reason light rail makes no sense is because this isn't a plan to put commuter rail into this part of Cambridge. The point is to allow an increase on the Worcester line. Unfortunately, SS is chock-a-block and can't take any more increases. I think you'll have a hard time convincing people to take the Green Line to Framingham or Worcester.

Second, why the assumption that this train is going to block traffic? So far, no concept has shown a station in Cambridge. The thinking, however, is that that area is a popular node in the region with MIT and the offices at Kendall Square. It might make sense to have one, but I'm sure that if it doesn't make sense and if it's going to block traffic for a few minutes upwards of 6-10 times a day, they won't do it.

Frankly, any talk about stations in Cambridge is a red herring. While I would favour such an idea if it were feasible, let's instead focus on the good that would come out of expanded service on one of the most heavily travelled routes in the Commuter Rail system.
 
The tunnel in Hingham is 800 ft long, 40 ft deep and 25 ft wide. It cost $40 million. The lt governor is pushing project and I think he wants a stop in the Kendal Sq area too.
 
czsz said:
'm assuming whatever MBTA movement and freight trains that cross happen rarely, and probably at very off-peak hours, whereas commuter rail would necessarily operate more frequently at rush hour.
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Wrong and wrong. The freight passes by daily, and the return trip is during evening rush hour. The MBTA usually does use it at night.


And again, someone explain to me how a 6 car train moving at 30mph is disruptive? It takes less time to pass than any cross street would get green for.

And there will be, at best, 4 trains a day doing this move. Remember, the goal isnt to move the worcester line, its to supplement it.
 
jass said:
Wrong and wrong. The freight passes by daily, and the return trip is during evening rush hour. The MBTA usually does use it at night.


And again, someone explain to me how a 6 car train moving at 30mph is disruptive? It takes less time to pass than any cross street would get green for.

And there will be, at best, 4 trains a day doing this move. Remember, the goal isnt to move the worcester line, its to supplement it.
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Exactly, that's it exactly.

This country of drivers (said pejoratively) is so accustomed to giant traffic jams from other motor vehicles, but.... the minute a train, bicyclist, pedestrian or any other non-vehicular obstruction gets in their way for a mminute they scream like third grade brats.
 
Drivers would just get used to the stop. Look how backed up the traffic gets around Leverett Circle when the Craigie Bridge has to open up in the spring, summer and fall so pleasure craft can enter the Charles. It is just something that you expect to happen.
 
MIT has long range plans to help fund an underpass for Mass Ave under the railroad. It would be a relatively short and easy underpass to construct. I think the State should chip in some funding immediately to get it built.

In the interim, a grade crossing would be justified, Overdependancy on automobiles for commuting makes passenger rail travel a clear priority.

I grew up in Cambridge in the 50's and 60's and know how provincial Cambridge has always been about change. They were the first NIMBY's.
 
bbfen said:
Exactly, that's it exactly.

This country of drivers (said pejoratively) is so accustomed to giant traffic jams from other motor vehicles, but.... the minute a train, bicyclist, pedestrian or any other non-vehicular obstruction gets in their way for a mminute they scream like third grade brats.
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Some people are idiots. Just the other day, I was driving my car, and there was a red light ahead, so I had taken my foot off the accelerator, and was cruising to a slow stop. The guy behind me would have none of this, he decided to accelerate, pass me, and then re-enter my lane in front of me so he could beat me to the red light.

Anyway, I understand objection to 120 car freight trains moving at 5mph...but that wouldnt happen here.

Although being stuck waiting for something like this pass through cambridge 6 times a day would be amusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ue6IpsfNPs

Or this lovely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LsuNWjRaAo&feature=related
 
Ron Newman said:
yes, and the MBTA uses it to move commuter-rail equipment between the north and south sides. You can't convert it to light rail while these uses still exist.
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There are ways to make sharing work, but it requires tightening the freight schedule and having equipment moves only after hours.

To be honest, it would actually be a really good place for an El right above the Grand Junction tracks.
 
HenryAlan said:
To be honest, it would actually be a really good place for an El right above the Grand Junction tracks.
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That isn't possible because of all the buildings constructed over the track air rights. A cut and cover tunnel for freight and commuter rail, with a surface level light rail and MUP corridor along the route would work beautifully. The only way the state could afford that is if Harvard, CSX, MIT, and some of the big corporations which would benefit from this chipped in for a percentage of the project.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
I've walked this line before. The road crossings are going to be a big problem, not just from ignorant drivers but just basic traffic. For the time being it would probably make sense to just throw in gates but if the line does begin to back traffic up then the state is looking at some costly grade separations. That, and since MIT built over the ROW there will be a number of crossings that will always be an at-grade crossing.

Still, this might be good, especially for game nights at the Garden. But what about all the people who work in the Back Bay and Financial District?

And if anyone is wondering, I'm almost certain that the Grand Junction Line never served passengers. From what I've seen it was all freight, bypassing downtown Boston for the docks in East Boston.
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Not to mention if the proposals to get rid of Storrow Drive come true can you imagine the amount of traffic that may flood through Cambridge?

I don't see that "Urban Ring" helping much. All of the areas it serves are places that are prone to near total gridlock
 
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