New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

[HalcyonEra]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Interesting that there's some soccer media that's following the Revere casino vote. There's a theory that suggests should the Suffolk Downs casino become a reality, that a soccer stadium at Wonderland would eventually follow. Not sure I buy that theory, but it's out there.



Original Fox25 tweet was also retweeted by former Revs' forward Taylor Twellman, now an analyst for ESPN. Twellman has somehow become exceptionally well connected and has a tendency to be somewhat cryptic with his tweets while wanting his followers to piece the puzzle together.

Well, Krafty Bob appears to like to schmooze with Casino bosses so it makes sense that there have been some discussions.

 

[chr31ter]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

A little stadium discussion here:

Boston Magazine: The Krafts are the Worst Owners in the League

“We’ve made progress on a number of sites,” Bilello said, failing to give specifics. “Some of those we’re no longer looking at, but a number of them we still are engaged on and trying to work some issues through. What I can say is we’re extremely committed to getting the project done. We think it’s critical to not only the Revolution but for the sport of soccer in this region to take this next-level jump. We all believe in it, but we also believe it needs to be in this urban region of Boston.”

When I asked specifically about Somerville and Revere, Bilello pivoted, saying there are many sites that haven’t been named publicly in the mix, and that, if they were to announce something, the Revolution would wait until the city announced the project first. Perhaps sensing my frustration, he leveled with me: “It’s absolutely understandable the frustration that our fans have. We’re frustrated as well. Really, for most fans, they’ll continue to be frustrated and continue to have doubts until they see a project with a shovel in the ground. And frankly I think that’s very fair for them. And I wouldn’t be committing to it on behalf of the organization, and the Krafts wouldn’t be committing to it, if it wasn’t something we wanted to do, and we’re committed to doing it. And again, I know there are fans that won’t believe it until they see it, but there’s no value to us saying we want to do it if we’re not really trying to do it.”

There was also a tweet tonight from former coach Steve Nicol, who says he's seen the model of the stadium the Krafts have in mind. In response to a fan who asked about the lack of progress, he said, "Environmentalists don't care how much money you have."

Interesting.

 

[underground]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

"Environmentalists don't care how much money you have."

Sounds like some serious buck passing coming from Nicol seeing as there's not even the sketchiest of preliminary plans in place for Environmentalists to look at. Why doesn't he just blame "Unions" or some other bogey man? All in a days work for the Rev's management though; just keep the new stadium chatter high enough during season ticket renewal time to keep raking in some cheap bucks on a stadium they already own.

 

[Semass]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

The only time "environmentalists" would care is if they were planning another remote, automobile-centric stadium or if they are planning to build on a wetland, farm, or other space. Any environmentalist worth their birkenstocks would be delighted by an urban stadium with strong public transit access. +1 if it is on a brownfield. My guess is that they want to build a stadium on the parking lot that was proposed as Wynn's Lodge and is getting pushback based on traffic and access concerns.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Hard for me to see any environmental objections to an Assembly Square stadium site.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

To what nonpublic proposals might environmentalists be objecting to? What would the Krafts share with environmental advocacy groups that wouldn't leak to the public? This excuse smells fishy.

 

[fattony]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

I'll bet he's looking at brownfields and the environmentalists want multiple billions of dollars of cleanup or consider many parcels undevelopable because sticking a trowel in the ground will release 0.0001% more of some toxin than is already present in the waterways.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

My guess is that they want to build a stadium on the parking lot that was proposed as Wynn's Lodge and is getting pushback based on traffic and access concerns.

Why would they want to do that? They already have a stadium in Foxborough - that land is worth much more to them as a hotel or apartment/condo complex. Bob Kraft doesn't care about soccer really, the point of a soccer-specific stadium in Somerville is all the other events (concerts, college sports, etc.) that could use it between Revs games. I don't think he has any illusions about Boston becoming a soccer town like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.

I'll bet he's looking at brownfields and the environmentalists want multiple billions of dollars of cleanup or consider many parcels undevelopable because sticking a trowel in the ground will release 0.0001% more of some toxin than is already present in the waterways.

Much more likely.

 

[underground]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

I'll bet he's looking at brownfields and the environmentalists want multiple billions of dollars of cleanup or consider many parcels undevelopable because sticking a trowel in the ground will release 0.0001% more of some toxin than is already present in the waterways.

But again, who are these unnamed environmentalists who have seen these mystery plans that no one else has?

 

[bobthebuilder]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Why would they want to do that? They already have a stadium in Foxborough - that land is worth much more to them as a hotel or apartment/condo complex. Bob Kraft doesn't care about soccer really, the point of a soccer-specific stadium in Somerville is all the other events (concerts, college sports, etc.) that could use it between Revs games. I don't think he has any illusions about Boston becoming a soccer town like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.



Much more likely.

Gillett stadium is WAAAAY too big for soccer. Even if the Rev's managed to draw crowds on the larger side of the MLS, that stadium would still feel incredibly empty, which makes for a less enjoyable fan experience. So constructing a new stadium of appropriate size is definitely needed. As far as the location is concerned, I feel like there is a much greater population that would be interested in attending games in the Metro Boston area than if they stayed in foxboro, especially if there is direct transit access. I don't know about others, but there is no way I'm driving down to foxboro for a soccer game. Even with patriot place, it's just not worth it. But if there were a stadium off the orange line (I'm still holding on to Assembly Sq. as the location), I would be far more likely to hop on the T, go to a game, slug back a beer or 8 and take the T home.

I went to a Philly union game with a buddy of mine and their fan group had a pregame tailgate. It was a ton of fun, and would be great to go to as a cheap event to go to.

 

[Semass]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Gillett stadium is WAAAAY too big for soccer. Even if the Rev's managed to draw crowds on the larger side of the MLS, that stadium would still feel incredibly empty, which makes for a less enjoyable fan experience. So constructing a new stadium of appropriate size is definitely needed. As far as the location is concerned, I feel like there is a much greater population that would be interested in attending games in the Metro Boston area than if they stayed in foxboro, especially if there is direct transit access. I don't know about others, but there is no way I'm driving down to foxboro for a soccer game. Even with patriot place, it's just not worth it. But if there were a stadium off the orange line (I'm still holding on to Assembly Sq. as the location), I would be far more likely to hop on the T, go to a game, slug back a beer or 8 and take the T home.

I went to a Philly union game with a buddy of mine and their fan group had a pregame tailgate. It was a ton of fun, and would be great to go to as a cheap event to go to.

You're right on that Gillette is way to big for the Revs. Every time they turns on the lights there it burns profits. Opening the doors and staffing up on a Revs game day is too expensive to make it worthwhile. On the other hand if you built a smaller, relatively cheap stadium on the Wynn Lodge site, the operating costs would be much lower. That is only part of the reasoning though. If he builds in Somerville or Revere, he doesn't own all of the restaurants, hotels, and attractions. Presumably, patrons would go to Patriot Place before the games for dining and shopping. Moving the Revs to the city reduces some of that traffic and reduces the justification for the probably sky-high rents. In addition, you have another +/- 20,000 seat venue that they can use for outdoor concerts that can't sell out the big stadium. Direct competition for Comcast Center.

As for the ghostly "environmentalists" I expect that they are in some very quiet informal discussions with consultants, regulators, and nonprofits to look at feasibility.

 

[Balerion]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Why would they want to do that? They already have a stadium in Foxborough - that land is worth much more to them as a hotel or apartment/condo complex. Bob Kraft doesn't care about soccer really, the point of a soccer-specific stadium in Somerville is all the other events (concerts, college sports, etc.) that could use it between Revs games. I don't think he has any illusions about Boston becoming a soccer town like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.

I don't think any soccer fans in Boston have that illusion either -- at least not with a crap-tastic owner like Bob Kraft at the helm of the Revolution.

 

[choo]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Why? A stadium in somerville would be surrounded in greater numbers and density with college kids, immigrants and young families than all those places. If it draws the crowd the atmosphere will develop. I agree that Kraft has a high opportunity cost leaving Gillette but this isn't one of them.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

You're right on that Gillette is way to big for the Revs. Every time they turns on the lights there it burns profits. Opening the doors and staffing up on a Revs game day is too expensive to make it worthwhile. On the other hand if you built a smaller, relatively cheap stadium on the Wynn Lodge site, the operating costs would be much lower. That is only part of the reasoning though. If he builds in Somerville or Revere, he doesn't own all of the restaurants, hotels, and attractions. Presumably, patrons would go to Patriot Place before the games for dining and shopping. Moving the Revs to the city reduces some of that traffic and reduces the justification for the probably sky-high rents. In addition, you have another +/- 20,000 seat venue that they can use for outdoor concerts that can't sell out the big stadium. Direct competition for Comcast Center.

All true, but again, Kraft really doesn't care about soccer. He owns the team, but under MLS management rules he doesn't entirely run it. He may make some money off it, but any of his own cash he spends to build a SSS out in Foxboro, if counted against the team's finances, would probably ruin his profits for a while. In any case, some small fraction of 10-15K fans per game buying his food outside the stadium (across a six-lane highway far from their cars) isn't nearly as good for the bottom line as 5K additional fans per game paying for tickets, regardless of who owns nearby restaurants.

Having a 20,000 seat venue just isn't worth it when he already has a 65,000 seat venue across the street. A 20,000 seat venue in Somerville, on the other hand, grows his entertainment portfolio considerably.

I don't think any soccer fans in Boston have that illusion either -- at least not with a crap-tastic owner like Bob Kraft at the helm of the Revolution.

The reason the Revs have no support is not because they don't have a SSS. It's because they play what is, in this country, a niche sport far from the urbanized areas where most soccer fans (read: hipsters and recent immigrants) live. If they move toward their potential fans, it stands to reason that they could grow the fan base a little, but no other owner would be doing any better than Kraft at selling soccer in this market.

 

[underground]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Soccer isn't a niche sport anymore. 2011 attendance was better or comparable to the NBA and NHL. Professionally, it's a high growth sport, and the fact that the Revs are stuck where they are is a testament to the Krafts, not soccer/MLS in general.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-mls-surpasses-nba-and-nhl-in-attendance-2011-11

 

[mass88]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Apart from perhaps Portland, no US or Canadian city has an MLS club that is at the top of popularity in that city.

It would be nice to see a 20-27,000 seat stadium built inside of 128. As already mentioned, it could be used for concerts and other sporting events. It's too bad there wasn't a college team in need of a new stadium for football. You could have a joint partnership for the stadium. I know the new one they built down in Houston hosts college football there.

 

[mass88]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Soccer isn't a niche sport anymore. 2011 attendance was better or comparable to the NBA and NHL. Professionally, it's a high growth sport, and the fact that the Revs are stuck where they are is a testament to the Krafts, not soccer/MLS in general.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-mls-surpasses-nba-and-nhl-in-attendance-2011-11

The European leagues are still more popular than the domestic leagues in the US.

You also have to look at the cost of attending a game. The average ticket price for an MLS game is a lot less than the average ticket price for an NHL, or NBA game.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Soccer isn't a niche sport anymore. 2011 attendance was better or comparable to the NBA and NHL.

Misleading headlines much?

Higher average game attendance. True. Everything else is much much less.

Of course they clarify all that, but to even imply that this proves soccer is not a niche market is beyond silly. The MLS has played it much smarter in regards to number of teams and expansion than either the NBA or NHL (particularly the many ill conceived NHL moves as they should have 20 teams max not 30.)

As a hockey fan I begrudgingly, but readily accept that the NHL runs a distant 4th in major sports in the US. But, soccer is an even more distant 5th. I'd say sixth if driving in circles and making left turns constituted a sport.

That said. Of all "major" sports, this one more than any needs to be in urban centers. Places with the highest percentage of recent immigrants, who are much more likely to want to go watch the world's favorite sport.

Put it in Somerville or Malden or whatever. But, whereever it goes, don't overdo it. Cheaper is better, to help keep ticket prices down. It's not a glamour sport, and doesn't need a whole bunch of luxury suites, and clubs, etc. No frills (or limited frills). Bleachers are fine if you ask me, but cheaper seats.

 

[underground]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

We're really massaging the meaning of the word "niche" here, which itself is a vague unquantifiable notion. The important part is that pro-soccer makes up a a sizable and growing market, and it's not being met by the Revs in their current state.

 

[Balerion]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Why? A stadium in somerville would be surrounded in greater numbers and density with college kids, immigrants and young families than all those places. If it draws the crowd the atmosphere will develop. I agree that Kraft has a high opportunity cost leaving Gillette but this isn't one of them.

A stadium in Somerville would be immense, but

(A) Kraft is never going to build it unless Somerville gives him a total sweetheart deal. I don't see that happening.

(B) Even if he did, he wouldn't make the most of it because the franchise is run cheaply and poorly.

The reason the Revs have no support is not because they don't have a SSS. It's because they play what is, in this country, a niche sport far from the urbanized areas where most soccer fans (read: hipsters and recent immigrants) live. If they move toward their potential fans, it stands to reason that they could grow the fan base a little, but no other owner would be doing any better than Kraft at selling soccer in this market.

The Foxborough/Gillette location is a serious drag, but there's far more pieces to the puzzle than just a new stadium. Even playing in Foxborough, the Revolution were among the league leaders in attendance in the 1990s. The rest of the league has learned lessons and passed them by while this franchise has been stuck in neutral for more than a decade. I think this team could be doing significantly better if Kraft bothered to try.

We live in a world where MLS franchises in places like Kansas City and Salt Lake City are booming. It's not just about a bunch of Portlandia hipsters. MLS is a niche, but it's not quite as niche-y as you think.