New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

The MLS also recently announced 3 expansions: NYC (2015), Orlando (2015), and Miami (2017). Soccer's popularly is really gaining pace. Miami's stadium is going to be designed by Arquitectonica!

Miami:
5330a858c07a80d642000003_arquitectonica-proposes-beckham-mls-stadium-for-port-of-miami_rendering_aerial_new_crop-5526-530x329.jpg
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

doesn't NYC already have a team?

They have the Red Bulls who are going to suffer given the market is getting another team.

The MLS needs to be smart about their expansion and realistically should cap the number of teams at 22-24. They don't want to spread the talent too thin.

I don't think Miami should have been an expansion given the city itself is not a good sports city and they've already had a team once. The MLS would be better served giving Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte, Minneapolis and St. Louis teams and calling it a day. Or at least not adding in any new teams for a decade or so.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

The MLS also recently announced 3 expansions: NYC (2015), Orlando (2015), and Miami (2017). Soccer's popularly is really gaining pace. Miami's stadium is going to be designed by Arquitectonica!

Miami:
5330a858c07a80d642000003_arquitectonica-proposes-beckham-mls-stadium-for-port-of-miami_rendering_aerial_new_crop-5526-530x329.jpg

No issues with NYC or Miami. Miami is the most latino city in the US if memory serves. NYC is obviously huge, and has very large group of many ethnicities, many recent immigrants from lands where soccer is large and in charge.

Orlando on the other hand. Should never have another major sports franchise in my opinion.

I also thought the NJ team was a shared team with NYC. Did this change, or is there enough interest for 2 teams there?
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

having a team in Miami and another nearby in Orlando seems pretty redundant.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

No issues with NYC or Miami. Miami is the most latino city in the US if memory serves. NYC is obviously huge, and has very large group of many ethnicities, many recent immigrants from lands where soccer is large and in charge.

Orlando on the other hand. Should never have another major sports franchise in my opinion.

I also thought the NJ team was a shared team with NYC. Did this change, or is there enough interest for 2 teams there?

Officially, the team changed from the NY/NJ Metrostars to the NY Red Bulls at some point to help with marketing.

We live in a world where MLS franchises in places like Kansas City and Salt Lake City are booming. It's not just about a bunch of Portlandia hipsters. MLS is a niche, but it's not quite as niche-y as you think.

Maimi, NY and LA are great spots for MLS teams. Foxborough is not.

The teams you listed are all located in cities where they have little competition (there's 2 other major league teams in KC, but only one plays during the summer and they're quite a ways from the Kansas side of the river. If you look at MLS, teams seem to work in 3 places:

A) Metropolises with lots of Latino residents
B) The Pacific Northwest and Canada
C) Medium-sized cities underserved by high quality MLB, NBA or NFL teams

Of the 19 MLS teams, the top 10, ordered by 2013 attendance, are:

Seattle (B), LA Galaxy (A), Portland (B and C), Montreal (B), Vancouver (B), Houston (A), KC (C), NY (A), SLC (C), Toronto (B). Those same 10 teams were the top ten in 2012 as well, albeit in a slightly different order, so it's pretty clear that that's the top half.

In the bottom half, you have Philly, Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, NE (not last!), DC, San Jose and Chivas LA. Chivas and San Jose have stadium issues holding them back. All the rest are the cities which don't fit any of the 3 categories. The Revs are about on par with their counterparts in Dallas and Chicago. Those are pretty good sports towns and both have soccer-specific stadiums.

Sensibly, MLS has realized that Latino-heavy areas are where the fans are and are expanding to Florida and New York instead of, say, Minneapolis or Charlotte. MLS in Boston is fighting the demographics of the city, the demographics of the area around their stadium, and the fact that they've gone almost entirely without success during the best decade-and-a-half any city has ever had in American sports.

A soccer specific stadium in Somerville won't really change that. The Krafts selling the team won't either, since all the rosters in MLS are basically controlled centrally. The best you can hope for is bumping that attendance number a little while creating a new, very valuable venue for concerts and such.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

doesn't NYC already have a team?

For some really odd reason, people in New York dont see Jersey across the river in the same way that Boston views cambridge. Instead, they see it like Worcester.

Its as much a NJ team as the Devils.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

A soccer specific stadium in Somerville won't really change that.

It brings the team much closer to the Latino residents (as well as the Brazilians), which should count for something.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

having a team in Miami and another nearby in Orlando seems pretty redundant.

Dude, Florida is a BIG state in both population and geography. Orlando and Miami are further apart than Boston and New York. Both are major population centers and tourist destinations of a state with almost 20 million people.

I grew up in between the 2 and wasn't in either's media market. The giants almost edged out the dolphins for football viewership.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

For some really odd reason, people in New York dont see Jersey across the river in the same way that Boston views cambridge. Instead, they see it like Worcester.

Its as much a NJ team as the Devils.

Worcester is being generous. More like Springfield.

I think there is immense potential. Aside from the soccer-loving immigrant class, anyone with kids knows how huge youth soccer is. There is nary a town in the Commonwealth without a program and most have outings to the Revs that are well attended. Hell, even the Women's league receives great support from youth programs and frankly, it is a great environment for those who have daughters playing soccer.

The problem with Kraft owning the Revs is that he just owns it because he can. He is overly cautious with the investment and isn't going to do squat until there is a clear and substantial ROI available for him. The only way that is going to happen is if the MLS somehow lands a national TV deal.

In order to succeed, a start-up (which I would consider the MLS to be) needs visionaries willing to take risks, not someone who is complacent and waits around until success smacks them in the face.

Contrast him to John Henry, who after buying Liverpool, not only spends the money to put a quality team on the field but is redeveloping their legendary stadium, Anfield, which is like 130 years old by working the process through the community which has resulted in a very smooth and unified path. Granted the English league is the best in the world, but the differences in the approach are striking. Henry gets it, Kraft does not.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Worcester is being generous. More like Springfield.

I think there is immense potential. Aside from the soccer-loving immigrant class, anyone with kids knows how huge youth soccer is. There is nary a town in the Commonwealth without a program and most have outings to the Revs that are well attended. Hell, even the Women's league receives great support from youth programs and frankly, it is a great environment for those who have daughters playing soccer.

The problem with Kraft owning the Revs is that he just owns it because he can. He is overly cautious with the investment and isn't going to do squat until there is a clear and substantial ROI available for him. The only way that is going to happen is if the MLS somehow lands a national TV deal.

In order to succeed, a start-up (which I would consider the MLS to be) needs visionaries willing to take risks, not someone who is complacent and waits around until success smacks them in the face.

Contrast him to John Henry, who after buying Liverpool, not only spends the money to put a quality team on the field but is redeveloping their legendary stadium, Anfield, which is like 130 years old by working the process through the community which has resulted in a very smooth and unified path. Granted the English league is the best in the world, but the differences in the approach are striking. Henry gets it, Kraft does not.

Comparing owning the Revs to owning Liverpool is like comparing owning the Red Sox to owning the Perth Heat of the Australian Baseball League. I mean, I'd do it just for the novelty, but it's not the same thing at all.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Comparing owning the Revs to owning Liverpool is like comparing owning the Red Sox to owning the Perth Heat of the Australian Baseball League. I mean, I'd do it just for the novelty, but it's not the same thing at all.

You are missing the point entirely. I meant it on more of a macro level. JH knows what he is doing and actually cares about the end product, BK does not. Kraft will not make a move until he can make, not a gain, but a substantial gain.

Kraft made his money in the paper business, one that he bought from his father in law. Henry made his money in hedge funds. While Kraft is certainly a brilliant businessman, the risk analysis world that he knows and operates in is far different than Henry's. I'm sure that Kraft built his fortune through shrewd business dealings with meticulous planning, but it is also suffice to say that it was likely a quite conservative and low risk path.

Kraft took a calculated risk when he bought the Pats, but he was a fan at heart. He really had a vested interest and was willing to take chances. His ownership of the Revs is purely an investment, and one that he will not risk anything more than he has to. NE will lose the franchise before he builds a stadium. That probably isn't a good thing in the long run as our society becomes more diversified, but the one thing he will not do, is invest in something that may not be viable. However, to become viable, sometimes you have to make yourself viable.
 
Last edited:
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

doesn't NYC already have a team?

The Red Bulls are doing okay for themselves at this point, but they are very much a niche in the NYC pro sports scene. Playing in NJ means that they are out of sight, out of mind, even though they have a gorgeous stadium. Numerous missteps in that franchise's history haven't helped.

The league isn't doing as well in the major media markets of the Northeast. Expansion to NYC is happening in part to help rectify that. Also, NYC is massive and can support two teams. It's not like the Red Bulls get many fans from the Outer Boroughs as it is. It's a long and arduous journey from Queens to Harrison, NJ by any form of transportation.

The MLS needs to be smart about their expansion and realistically should cap the number of teams at 22-24. They don't want to spread the talent too thin.

I agree that expanding past 24 teams while simultaneously attempting to significantly improve the league's quality will be difficult. But with the kind of expansion fees that are now rolling in and the pursuit of ever-larger national TV deals, I wonder if it will be difficult to turn down additional franchises. I'd definitely support slowing down after 24, but I'm starting to doubt that will happen.

I don't think Miami should have been an expansion given the city itself is not a good sports city and they've already had a team once. The MLS would be better served giving Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte, Minneapolis and St. Louis teams and calling it a day. Or at least not adding in any new teams for a decade or so.

Miami is very low on the list of quality sports towns, but we'll see. Beckham's project down there is getting a huge amount of press and has generated quite a bit of enthusiasm.

having a team in Miami and another nearby in Orlando seems pretty redundant.

I don't know about that. Miami and Orlando have distinctly different identities and don't have much overlap in sports fandom. The truth of the matter is that there aren't many metros in the South that are big enough to be viable MLS markets, but three of them are in Florida. There are worse things than having a built-in local rival.

Orlando is on the small side for expansion right now given some holes that have yet to be filled (Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, and San Diego are all at least 1m larger -- to say nothing of the most underrepresented MSA in pro sports -- by far -- the Inland Empire). Orlando was helped a bit by the support for their USL Pro (third division) team, which is the best-supported club in the US minor leagues.

The teams you listed are all located in cities where they have little competition (there's 2 other major league teams in KC, but only one plays during the summer and they're quite a ways from the Kansas side of the river. If you look at MLS, teams seem to work in 3 places:

A) Metropolises with lots of Latino residents
B) The Pacific Northwest and Canada
C) Medium-sized cities underserved by high quality MLB, NBA or NFL teams

Of the 19 MLS teams, the top 10, ordered by 2013 attendance, are:

Seattle (B), LA Galaxy (A), Portland (B and C), Montreal (B), Vancouver (B), Houston (A), KC (C), NY (A), SLC (C), Toronto (B). Those same 10 teams were the top ten in 2012 as well, albeit in a slightly different order, so it's pretty clear that that's the top half.

In the bottom half, you have Philly, Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, NE (not last!), DC, San Jose and Chivas LA. Chivas and San Jose have stadium issues holding them back. All the rest are the cities which don't fit any of the 3 categories. The Revs are about on par with their counterparts in Dallas and Chicago. Those are pretty good sports towns and both have soccer-specific stadiums.

According to the 2010 census, Chicago has 1.9m Hispanics. DFW has 1.7m. Not sure why they don't count.

What Colorado, Columbus (until just recently sold), Dallas, NE, DC, San Jose, and Chivas USA (also just recently sold) have in common, actually, are owners who have other sports holdings they care about more.

Colorado -- Kroenke (Arsenal, St. Louis Rams, Colorado Avalanche, Denver Nuggets)
Columbus & Dallas -- Hunt family (KC Chiefs)
DC -- Erick Thohir (Inter Milan)
NE -- Kraft (NE Patriots)
San Jose - Lew Wolff (Oakland A's)
Chivas USA -- Vergara (C.D. Guadalajara)

To me, this is revealing.

Sensibly, MLS has realized that Latino-heavy areas are where the fans are and are expanding to Florida and New York instead of, say, Minneapolis or Charlotte. MLS in Boston is fighting the demographics of the city, the demographics of the area around their stadium, and the fact that they've gone almost entirely without success during the best decade-and-a-half any city has ever had in American sports.

MLS expanded to Florida and New York because they are trying to (a)expand the national footprint to the South, where they had no presence prior to Orlando/Miami and (b)win over the NY market, which has been a challenge with the NYRB franchise for various reasons.

I'm not sure that Miami's Cubans and NY's Dominicans and Puerto Ricans really matter, since none of those three groups are particularly interested in soccer.

Also, you have to understand how expansion works. MLS HQ doesn't just call up the city of Miami and tell them that they think putting a franchise there is a fine idea. There has to be an interested and deep-pocketed ownership group and a clear plan for a stadium. These markets had owners who stepped up to the plate. (NYC is an exception to the stadium rule, but MLS had their reasons for making it.)

A soccer specific stadium in Somerville won't really change that. The Krafts selling the team won't either, since all the rosters in MLS are basically controlled centrally. The best you can hope for is bumping that attendance number a little while creating a new, very valuable venue for concerts and such.

Contracts are held centrally, but rosters are definitely not "controlled centrally". In constructing a roster, individual teams are constrained by the salary cap and by the quota on foreign players, but otherwise have free rein to construct their roster as they see fit.

The Revs have a reputation for being cheap and for being an organization that players don't really want to play for, which is an accusation that was thrown around in that Boston Magazine article. Certainly, the Revs have left the impression that they didn't do all they could do to address roster needs over the years. They never adequately replaced stars like Clint Dempsey or Taylor Twellman, nor did they bother to fill empty roster slots during playoff runs that ultimately fell short. This season is the same old story on that front.

It's a poorly run franchise. It will never be optimized in Foxborough, but it could still be so much better than it is. There are a lot of soccer fans in Boston. Very few of them follow MLS or the Revs. And who can blame them?
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

It brings the team much closer to the Latino residents (as well as the Brazilians), which should count for something.

Have to count the Brazilians. They're the basis for my pie in the sky idea of putting the soccer stadium in My city's fairgrounds.....
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

It's a poorly run franchise. It will never be optimized in Foxborough, but it could still be so much better than it is. There are a lot of soccer fans in Boston. Very few of them follow MLS or the Revs. And who can blame them?

There are a ton of soccer fans in Boston and most of them support a European club. I know Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton, Newcastle and Manchster United all have supporters groups that meet up at various bars. Heck, you see far more foreign jerseys being worn around town than you do Revolution shirts.


If David Beckham were not pushing for a team in Miami, that city would not be on the radar of the MLS. It's going to be interesting to see how sustainable to buzz is down there given the city's nature.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Miami could fill their stadium just on tourists from Europe and Central/South America.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Miami could fill their stadium just on tourists from Europe and Central/South America.

I feel like second rate soccer isn't on the top of any tourist's list of things to do in Miami.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

After the MLS posted the Miami announcement and render on Facebook there was tons of hate being thrown at them (tbf probably from Portland or Seattle fans) saying they should build a 2,000 seat stadium instead because that's all they can fill.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

For some really odd reason, people in New York dont see Jersey across the river in the same way that Boston views cambridge. Instead, they see it like Worcester.

Its as much a NJ team as the Devils.

More like Springfield. The Hudson might as well be the Atlantic as far as NYers are concerned. A bunch of my friends from high school prefer to live in the hinterlands of Queens and Brooklyn and ride the subway an hour into Manhattan every day instead of taking the PATH in from Hoboken or JC.

(edit: I see HalcyonEra beat me to the punch, I missed this whole page...)


Anyway, I think getting the Revs into Metro Boston would help the attendance and prestige of the team just through proximity to the other teams and Boston's sports culture. Revs banners, getting some colors for the Pru, a neighborhood of soccer bars, etc are all things that I could see naturally spawn around this hypothetical stadium, providing it was not built as a parking lot wasteland. In addition, a lot of white kids grew up playing soccer. So while they may not watch it on TV or drive to Foxboro for a game, going to see a quick (cheap) match on a weekend is certainly within the realm of possibility. The Hispanic and European immigrant populations would of course also be far more likely to go if the stadium was accessible via transit instead of a decently long drive down 95.


Moving away from new construction, there are a few places I believe could be used with a few slight modifications. White Stadium in Franklin Park jumps to mind right away. It seats 10,000 and is within easy walking distance of both Stony Brook and Green Street stations. It needs lights, media and concessions upgrades (I believe they already fixed the fire damage), but would be tons cheaper than a new facility and a great test to see if there is a market in the city. I don't know how Bob Kraft feels about philanthropy, but dumping money into a public stadium would look really good for him. The bad part is that it's not in exactly the "best" neighborhood, and on the ass-opposite end of the city from the target audience, although the Orange Line is a straight shot.

Over in Eastie you've got Sartori Stadium in Jeffries Point. Its smack in the middle of the target audience and has excellent access via Airport Station and a lot more room for parking, but would need considerable renovations. It appears to have astroturf and would need an expansion of seating so I doubt it would work out, but the location is perfect.

Lastly (and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet) is Wonderland. It would need a complete rebuilding, but has the transportation infrastructure in place (both parking and transit). Parts of the building may be able to be reused, although a complete reconstruction of the site with parking at the rear and the stadium at the front would be better. I'm usually not a fan of pedestrian-bridges, but one across North Shore road directly into the stadium would be easy to do. The remainder of the site could be redeveloped getting Kraft a bit more money in the process.
 
Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Kraft took a calculated risk when he bought the Pats, but he was a fan at heart. He really had a vested interest and was willing to take chances. His ownership of the Revs is purely an investment, and one that he will not risk anything more than he has to. NE will lose the franchise before he builds a stadium. That probably isn't a good thing in the long run as our society becomes more diversified, but the one thing he will not do, is invest in something that may not be viable. However, to become viable, sometimes you have to make yourself viable.

Kraft to a ridiculous risk when he bought the New England Patriots in 1993 for the most money EVER paid for an NFL franchise - - - we're not talking the Dallas Cowboys or the NY Giants or the Pittsburgh Steelers, etc of that time - - we're talking what was hands down the worst franchise with the worst stadium in the worst location.

He was certifiably nuts to do it. And somehow, he made it all happen.

Comparing John Henry with the altready legendary Liverpool FC is downright ridiculous. The Patriots until Kraft bought thenm (even with a weird SB trip in 1985) were a crap business since their inception.

The Revs will build a stadium in Somerville. It will be a big hit. the situation with playing out in the hinterlands of Foxboro (not even good for NFL, but NFL fans on Sundays will come out) stinks for a soccer fandom who may be more urban and rely more on public transportation.
 

Back
Top