New Red and Orange Line Cars

F-Line to Dudley

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I thought the new cars had a net addition of seats, just more can be flipped up/etc for wheelchairs and accessibility ?
Minor reduction. Current fleet has 58 seats per car; new fleet has 44 seats in the 'A' car of a married pair, 50 seats in the 'B' car. All of it accountable to the door mods/re-spacing and additional wheelchair allowances. The flippable seats are counted in the tally. On the other hand, they can comfortably accommodate many more standees than the previous series so net capacity ends up functionally higher. I'm not sure how the T's official crowding metric factors distance-to-doors when determining the threshold where dwells start to be harmed, but these could arguably adjust that formula up slightly because alighting from a crowded train is so much easier vs. the 01200's interior layout.


It's basically the same post-ADA enhancement the Red Line went through between the 015/016/01700 series and the 01800's. 63/64/62 seats per car in the oldest series, 50 seats in the '94 Bombardiers. The new RL cars are 43 'A' car/50 'B' car owing to another -3.5 seats' worth of further accessibility enhancements around widened doors, but since the Bombardiers already made the more dramatic design shift to more doors 26 years ago the change this time around is very negligible.
 

Jahvon09

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Supposedly, they are supposed to have an extra standing capacity of about 15 extra passengers that:) are not there on the old cars.
 

GeneseeJunction

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Seems like 1400s are getting some more revenue time. I managed to catch 1404 to home on Thursday night (1/16), to work Friday (1/17), and home again Friday night. Looked like consist 1404.

Observations
  • Heat didn't work in my car, had to bundle up (nothing coming from side board radiators)
  • Seated next to end of card service door - notable draft when in motion
  • At one stop, took three tries to get the doors to properly close (pretty empty platform)
  • Automated announcements don't know what side door open @ Forest Hills, says "Left or Right" (helpful for the blind)
Green St - Jan 17th
consist_1404_green_street_17_jan_2020.jpg


Forest Hills "Left or Right" announcement - Jan 16th
forest_hills_left_or_right_16_jan_2020.jpg
 

FK4

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Finally made it onto a new OL car. The space is great, lighting and color scheme soooo much better than the soul sucking death-fluorescence and fake wood of the old cars. Game changer.

Unfortunately, seats are way less comfortable.

Worst, the door alarm noise - I was already tortured by it after the first stop. It’s AWFUL and relentless.
 

Jahvon09

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Seems like 1400s are getting some more revenue time. I managed to catch 1404 to home on Thursday night (1/16), to work Friday (1/17), and home again Friday night. Looked like consist 1404.

Observations
  • Heat didn't work in my car, had to bundle up (nothing coming from side board radiators)
  • Seated next to end of card service door - notable draft when in motion
  • At one stop, took three tries to get the doors to properly close (pretty empty platform)
  • Automated announcements don't know what side door open @ Forest Hills, says "Left or Right" (helpful for the blind)
Green St - Jan 17th
View attachment 2808

Forest Hills "Left or Right" announcement - Jan 16th
View attachment 2809
Each new car is supposed to 2 HVAC units. one at each end. One unit is supposed to kick in when the other one fails.
 

HelloBostonHi

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So I noticed something interesting on next week's FMCB agenda.

A. Call to Order by the Chair
B. Public Comment Period
C. Meeting Minutes
  • Approval of November 18, 2019
  • Approval of January 13, 2020
D. FMCB Public Schedule
  • Review of upcoming agenda items
E. Report from the General Manager
F. Safety Initiative: Commuter Rail Sleep Apnea Program
G. Green Line Extension Update
H. East Cambridge Viaduct Design Services Contract Amendment
  • Discussion and Possible Action
I. Five-Year Pro Forma
J. Rail Transformation Plan Update
K. Bus Transformation Plan Update
L. ATM/Vending Initiative
  • Discussion and Possible Action
M. Fairmount Line PIlot
  • Discussion and Possible Action
N. Bus Facility Modernization
  • Discussion and Possible Action
O. Red Line/Orange Line Car Change Order
  • Discussion and Possible Action
P. General Engineering Contracts
  • Discussion and Possible Action
O. Red Line/Orange Line Car Change Order
  • Discussion and Possible Action
Any guesses on what this might refer to? Sounds like trouble to me. Especially tucked away at the end of a very lengthy agenda.
 

JeffDowntown

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So I noticed something interesting on next week's FMCB agenda.



O. Red Line/Orange Line Car Change Order
  • Discussion and Possible Action
Any guesses on what this might refer to? Sounds like trouble to me. Especially tucked away at the end of a very lengthy agenda.
Could it just be whatever the fix is to the unusual noise issue discovered in the OL cars. If the fix is proving out, you need to approve a change order to have that done to all the new cars.
 

Equilibria

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So I noticed something interesting on next week's FMCB agenda.



O. Red Line/Orange Line Car Change Order
  • Discussion and Possible Action
Any guesses on what this might refer to? Sounds like trouble to me. Especially tucked away at the end of a very lengthy agenda.

Tack-on passenger amenities. Nothing to do with the reason the cars were out of service.

The agency now wants to upgrade the digital displays coming on the 404 new cars, increasing the size of the screens to 24 inches and doubling the number of displays in the cars. Each New Red Line car will have eight screens, Orange Line cars six screens.

They will convey passenger information such as maps of the line that show the train’s current location and information about bus and other rail connections at various stops.

Other changes include handrails that suspend from the ceiling along the center of Red Line cars, which are larger than the new Orange Line cars. The cars will also receive de-icing equipment.
 

JeffDowntown

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So I noticed something interesting on next week's FMCB agenda.



O. Red Line/Orange Line Car Change Order
  • Discussion and Possible Action
Any guesses on what this might refer to? Sounds like trouble to me. Especially tucked away at the end of a very lengthy agenda.
Boston Globe reporting on the change requests:
"The MBTA is still tinkering with those new Red and Orange Line cars.
The agency now wants to upgrade the digital displays coming on the 404 new cars, increasing the size of the screens to 24 inches and doubling the number of displays in the cars. Each New Red Line car will have eight screens, Orange Line cars six screens.
They will convey passenger information such as maps of the line that show the train’s current location and information about bus and other rail connections at various stops.
“We think these are really helpful in terms of communicating with customers,” said MBTA general manager Steve Poftak. “People like them and we felt it was an important customer amenity, so we are going to have them on all 404 cars.”
Other changes include handrails that suspend from the ceiling along the center of Red Line cars, which are larger than the new Orange Line cars. The cars will also receive de-icing equipment...."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2020/01/23/mbta-adding-more-features-new-red-orange-line-trains/Yj4Eke1miwu05VWmWKoO5O/story.html
 

Java King

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All the improvements are absolutely needed! However, does anyone feel that the aesthetics of these new red/orange train cars are kind of "clunky" and very utilitarian with little design for beauty as well as service? I just did a quick Google search of Asian and European subway car design, and the images are sleek and modern. In our own backyard, the images that came up for Montreal seemed functional as well as stylish. Example Munich had some really nice ones too. Example I'm wondering if we are so desperate for ANY improvement, that we overlook the amazing opportunity to have them look good too! People have been fawning all over these new cars, but I just wished they looked more 2020 than 1990.
 

HelloBostonHi

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I'd argue ours are designed for maximum interior space given the tunnel dimensions we have. Ours are also cars, not trainsets, and that makes a massive difference in terms of design. The two examples you pulled are of trainsets, cars permanently bound into a set, so the front and rear cars can be fundamentally different than the rest of the cars. The MBTA chose to go with married pairs again which allows the sets to be modified and swapped out as needed, at the expense of open gangways and unique front designs.
 

HelloBostonHi

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Maybe they should do something about the placement/design of the assistance button while they are making changes?

The type 8 green line trains have them located in easy to press locations and it doesn't seem to be a problem, it's hard to make an accessible button inaccessible, things like receessing it or hiding it under a cover could make it harder to use for people with physical disabilities or blind people.
 

bakgwailo

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Other changes include handrails that suspend from the ceiling along the center of Red Line cars, which are larger than the new Orange Line cars.
Awesome. Didn't someone mention these earlier in the thread? Seems like a great add (that should have been a no brainer from the start).

The cars will also receive de-icing equipment.
I guess that is... good? Give our climate, shouldn't that have been rather standard?

I am still holding out hope now that the powers that be will switch the static maps over the doors to something modern (LED or LCD).
 

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