New Red and Orange Line Cars

Lrfox

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The question is what the priority is for the PR folks. I agree that they should be open with good, useful information if the Globe or B&T call them for comment, but I don't think the agency is well-served by engaging in a tit-for-tat argument on social media.

"You've been hearing a lot about these cars being out of service lately, here are the facts..." doesn't play very well with a public whipped up into a "crisis" frenzy. Better to focus on testing the fix. FWIW, the new train was queued up to leave the yard again just now, so they're working on it.
It's likely not entirely up to the agency either. T improvements, including the new OL fleet, are among the Gov's highest priorities. As such, his office will have quite a bit of influence over the messaging that comes out about this. Any response to press inquiries is likely vetted through the Gov's communications team before being sent back to the reporter. The T might (and probably would) agree that setting realistic expectations is a good idea. But that doesn't align with the politics of promoting the OL fleet replacement as a success today. For Baker, it needs to be a win now, not eventually down the road. So the T is caught between a rock (pressure from the Gov) and a hard place (the realities of launching an entire fleet of new train sets).
 

jass

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Once more: this has happened with EVERY new-gen fleet purchase since the beginning of time. It's only news at this point for those who can't see past short attention-span theatre.
I cant recall a bus order being over a year late due to technical issues.
 

Equilibria

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I cant recall a bus order being over a year late due to technical issues.
Buying buses is basically like buying a personal car. Trains are harder. Airliners (that are already designed and flying) get ordered 5 years or more before delivery, and development of an all-new model takes a decade and incorporates many, many years of delays.

Different types of vehicles are different.
 

jass

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Buying buses is basically like buying a personal car. Trains are harder. Airliners (that are already designed and flying) get ordered 5 years or more before delivery, and development of an all-new model takes a decade and incorporates many, many years of delays.

Different types of vehicles are different.
On the flip side, a multi-billion dollar 6,000 person cruise ship getting delayed by 1 month is rare and when it happens it is a big deal
 

Equilibria

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On the flip side, a multi-billion dollar 6,000 person cruise ship getting delayed by 1 month is rare and when it happens it is a big deal
Which doesn't disprove F-Line's initial point - for this type of vehicle, this is normal.
 

jass

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Which doesn't disprove F-Line's initial point - for this type of vehicle, this is normal.
I agree that it's normal, but it's not something we should accept.

How can the ship yards put out a new custom design every few years and execute it without delays?

Thats what we should be asking of the train people.
 

HelloBostonHi

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I agree that it's normal, but it's not something we should accept.

How can the ship yards put out a new custom design every few years and execute it without delays?

Thats what we should be asking of the train people.
Ships don't have to fit the same specific requirements. They might have to line up with certain docks and be certain dimensions to fit in certain ports but it's all flexible. Trains and subways in particular have to fit very very very specific specifications on size, shape, speed, power, signalling, and interoperability with thousands of things. A boat has to float and have the right radios and antennas. It's apples and oranges.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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I cant recall a bus order being over a year late due to technical issues.
When did we last order a whole new-designed technological generation on the bus mode? The Silver Line dual-modes, which were late of course.

What were the last rapid transit orders that didn't have extended teething issues? Green Line 3700's in '97 and Red Line 01700's in '88. Both design-identical re-orders of existing stock with no updated components except plug-compatible stuff on the latest supply chain.

Nothing has changed with established patterns. We're on our (4th?) reorder of New Flyer XDE-xx's, which were already in-production on other bus systems for a couple years before the T first dabbled. And Red/Orange aren't anywhere near as behind-schedule as NYC's more tortured Bombardier order of similarly newfangled-computery generation HRT car, so we are very far from being surprised by anything here.
 

Equilibria

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Per Adam Vacarro, the official statement, with some more detail.

1578409552895.png

It's good that they note the total 404 cars (though that's an unfortunate number in this context) - by dealing with this now, hopefully the RL rollout goes more smoothly.

Also, the train is, in fact, in service, per newtrains.today.
 

estyle

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Road the new train this morning--second time. I'm looking forward to the days when I loose count.

Generally love them--the seats are such a huge improvement.

I know this has been discussed but what's with the door beeps? I would assume that some disability advocate is driving it, which is good. But the constant beeping when ever a door is open--say when you are sitting in traffic for five minutes--is really annoying. I can feel myself getting anxious even though I have headphones in. Does someone who understands this better than I have an explanation of why? Could there be beeping just when the doors are opening or closing? I'd love a "the door is closing" announcement like they have in Chicago.
 

bakgwailo

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Hopefully we finally see some acceleration in the rollout now (or at least q1/q2 of this year). Here is a question for the red: Let's say today it takes about 20 minutes Ashmont to Park. Given the better acceleration/braking of the new trains, signaling, track work, etc, once all is said and done is it feasible that would result in possibly a reduction to 15 minutes? Maybe better or worse time improvements?
 

Arlington

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Does someone who understands this better than I have an explanation of why? Could there be beeping just when the doors are opening or closing? I'd love a "the door is closing" announcement like they have in Chicago.
I think the issue is that there needs to be a "the doors have opened" and "the doors are open" and "this is where the doors are" audible to help the vision impaired.

A lot of the deaths/injuries that are still caused by "the system" seem to be when the vision impaired miss their cue as to when the doors are open and where the door is (and end up either stepping into the gap between cars, or falling into the gap between car and platform because they've misjudged the door's location and what "openness" appears in the non-sight senses)

I havent seen anything offical connecting the two, but that's my guess as a longtime observer of these issues (starting with the DC metro's granite edge and lights, long before ADA proposed its solution)

Next time i'm outside a new train, I'm going to close my eyes and see if the beeps are "stereolocators" for knowing where to aim on the train if you want to find a door.
 

sneijder

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Hopefully we finally see some acceleration in the rollout now (or at least q1/q2 of this year). Here is a question for the red: Let's say today it takes about 20 minutes Ashmont to Park. Given the better acceleration/braking of the new trains, signaling, track work, etc, once all is said and done is it feasible that would result in possibly a reduction to 15 minutes? Maybe better or worse time improvements?
The new tighter signal blocks won't be effect until the entire current rolling stock is retired. I don't think overall travel times will decrease much during off-peak periods, but peak travel times should improve from tighter headways, shorter dwells, wider 4-door boarding.
 

Jahvon09

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One of the new trains will be closely monitored for any new problems that might arise during its run.
 

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