New Red and Orange Line Cars

donkeybutlers said:
I agree we desperately need new orange line trains but I have to say I sympathize with the aesthetic and comfort complaints. The new seats are considerably less comfortable (I never found the old seats uncomfortable but I do with these) and, while I completely understand not everyone would agree on this, those old trains with the MS paint seats and the faux wood paneling feel like home, the new ones feel extremely sterile by comparison. Worthwhile trade overall but people do notice when those, even somewhat goofy, comforts disappear; a few people I know who also ride regularly have had similar observations.
Click to expand...

The #12 cars' seats used to be more comfortable than they are now. At some point in the late 2000s they replaced their black fake-leather seat covers (which had padding) with the current...whatever that color is "bath mat" fabric over what feels like bare, un-padded metal. The old black seats were too-frequently slashed (presumably the current seats were designed to deal with that) but they at least were waterproof (or coffeeproof), unlike the current ones with a bit higher risk of accidentally sitting in a (undetected) puddle of something that hopefully came from a Dunkin. I've had a handful of rides on the oddly-numbered #14 cars, and I can't say that I find the seats themselves to be a particular downgrade, with the exception of the backrests being too short. They are, mercifully, nowhere near as bad as the #5 East Boston Tunnel cars on the Blue Line, which are similarly hard, but so smooth as to be annoyingly slippery, especially when the train is braking heavily.

I generally agree that the aesthetics of the CRRC cars leave something to be desired. I personally find the abundance of yellow unsightly especially given that the seats are orange (I expect a similar clash on the Red Line versions, but have yet to experience those cars in person). To me it fits, though, with the T's somewhat...unpredictable aesthetic decisions. Every new set of passenger equipment lately with the exception of the Rotem coaches on the Commuter Rail (and those are basically clones of older types) has had a new aesthetic design that's essentially come out of nowhere, with a side dish of poorly-executed online polls to choose from a menu of options. There's a distinct lack of consistency (witness the Green Line being back to, yet again, having three different color schemes, this time at least it's on three different vehicle types) across the whole system which is not in and of itself harmful in any way (it's just aesthetics) but which seems to speak to a lack of concern that would be problematic if it spread to other issues. (I personally take significant issue with the current signage standards, which are emphatically not just about aesthetics. Whoever thought "white text in orange bubble on white background" at small sizes was a good idea clearly hasn't tried to read some of the newer Orange Line signs.) It feels distinctly like design by committee, which results in a product which is both perfectly serviceable and utterly unspectacular, probably a pretty good shorthand for the #14 car interiors. Hopefully they can at least keep them clean (that faux-wood paneling doesn't show grime nearly as readily as all that white and yellow in the new cars).
 
The biggest benefit of the new trains in terms of ride experience is that they are so much quieter. You can actually talk to people without screaming or listen to music at a healthy volume and be able to hear it.
 
Last edited:
donkeybutlers said:
The biggest benefit of the new trains in terms of ride experience is that they are so much quieter. You can actually talk to people without screaming or listen to music at a healthy volume and be able to hear it.
Click to expand...

That is a distinct improvement. Unfortunately their incessant beeping whenever the doors are open balances that out a little bit. I assume that the beeping is meant to help the visually impaired find the doors more easily, which is a good and beneficial thing, though I wonder if there was a way to accomplish that goal that wasn't quite so shrill. (It's particularly bad at the terminal stations, where the doors can easily stay open for five-plus minutes continuously, beeping all the time.)
 
I'd also say I agree with the seats/aesthetics: even from the mock-ups, I thought they felt "fisher-pricey" if that makes sense. However, after some discussion pages back I do get that the color schema is to help with accessibility (high contrast/etc) making me reasonably OK with it (even if I am not a fan). The seats, though - those should just be flat plastic benches ala NYC. Anyone missing the fabric hasn't sat down with mystery fluids soaking it (very generously called out by Brattle Loop as 'coffee'). There is also something about the colors and the backrest that through me off and make it look extra short/uncomfortable, even after having taken them a few times and knowing they actually work OK. In the end, I think my problem is with things like the fixed system maps (vs. LCD or LED) and other oddities that modern rolling stock doesn't seem to have elsewhere. Honestly, as 'fisher-pricey' as they feel, just add a bunch of ads in, and it's not terribly different than say Tokyo's metro. As long as they are faster and more reliable to go from A to B (or C), then... great for now. Take notes for improvements for the rebuilds in 15 years (crossing fingers).
 
bakgwailo said:
very generously called out by Brattle Loop as 'coffee'
Click to expand...

Sometimes it is coffee. It's just less disgusting to assume and/or pretend that it's coffee, because that means we don't have to contemplate what other mystery fluid(s) it might be.

I think I'm going to have to steal that "Fisher-Pricey" descriptor, because that's a perfect encapsulation of the aesthetics of the CRRC car interiors. They look like giant plastic toys. About the only piece of 'advanced' technology in them is the electronic destination displays, which are useful if mildly clunky. (Was it really necessary to have the scrolling ticker at the bottom in a completely different font? I suppose I should be grateful that unlike Siemens at least CRRC didn't use the wrong font for everything. It's a nitpicky pet peeve, but the use of Arial on the Blue Line cars interior signage bugs me every time I ride them.)
 
My issue is that the seats are completely flat like benches - there's nothing to stop you sliding back and forth during acceleration and braking. The new LRVs in San Francisco have the exact same issue; here, it's bad enough that Muni has considered retrofitting them with transverse seating. Longitudinal seating needs butt dents to keep you in place.
 
We all can complain about something with the new Red & Orange Line trains, but the MBTA has the last word on them. And if they don't want to change anything about them, we're all just gonna have to live with it. :(
 
There were three new OL trains running early this morning, but now we're down to two. Based on anecdotal reports on Twitter, it seems like one of the new ones was taken out of service due to mechanical problems. This jibes with what I saw approaching Oak Grove, where we passed a new OL train heading southbound the was stopped a few hundred years outside of Oak Grove for unknown reasons. MBTA tweeted that a train was taken out of service at Wellington not long after. Hopefully it's nothing serious.
 
At least it was just that one train, not all of them, as they usually do! 😊
 
The EGE said:
My issue is that the seats are completely flat like benches - there's nothing to stop you sliding back and forth during acceleration and braking. The new LRVs in San Francisco have the exact same issue; here, it's bad enough that Muni has considered retrofitting them with transverse seating. Longitudinal seating needs butt dents to keep you in place.
Click to expand...

Note how more distinguished systems handle this issue


_78117016_78116903.jpg
 
I was just thinking; I wonder if the T will put those kind of seats in the new Type 10's. Not like the ones pictured above, but like the seats on the new Red & Orange Line trains. Just saying. :unsure:
 
Jahvon09 said:
I was just thinking; I wonder if the T will put those kind of seats in the new Type 10's. Not like the ones pictured above, but like the seats on the new Red & Orange Line trains. Just saying. :unsure:
Click to expand...

Are the seats in the Type 9s plastic like on the CRRC cars? If so, I'd expect similar seats on the T10s.
 
I've rode on the Type 9's but it was only once or twice, so I can't remember what the seats were like. They mainly operate on the B Line (Boston College to Park Street). And BTW, the seats on the new trains ARE slip proof. They have a bunch of small bubbles on them to keep the passengers from slipping off during fast accelleration or fast braking. :unsure:
 
Brattle Loop said:
That is a distinct improvement. Unfortunately their incessant beeping whenever the doors are open balances that out a little bit. I assume that the beeping is meant to help the visually impaired find the doors more easily, which is a good and beneficial thing, though I wonder if there was a way to accomplish that goal that wasn't quite so shrill.
Click to expand...

Agree 1000%. I was stopped for 5 minutes at Chinatown last week while the motorman helped a disabled passenger. The beeping was seriously making me consider walking to Wellington. Even listening to music couldn’t drown it out. As far as helping the visually impaired, since the beeping is so loud and the doors only 10’ feet apart, l wonder if it is actually a hindrance since the beeps from adjacent doors bleed together.

Also couldn’t agree more on providing open gangways at least between the married pairs. Seems like an absolute swing and a miss by the T’s procurement. No brainer way to add capacity with absolute minimal impact to cost and ops.
 
Highwayguy said:
Also couldn’t agree more on providing open gangways at least between the married pairs. Seems like an absolute swing and a miss by the T’s procurement. No brainer way to add capacity with absolute minimal impact to cost and ops.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree as such, though I do wonder whether they considered it at all and rejected it for whatever reason, or if it was just never considered (that would be a swing and a miss).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top