Northeastern to Build in Burlington

statler said:
I assume you are referring to River's Edge in Malden?

Don't be fooled. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Plenty of parking for residents and workers and a bitch of a walk to Wellington station. Very little in way of on-site amenities (a gym and Starbucks as far as I know).

Granted, this could change over time, but it will still take some massive structural changes. It's better than a bunch of single family home sitting on two-acre plots to be sure, but they could have (and should have) built much better 'bones' for the area.
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Yes, this is the idea...not saying that the River's Edge was designed properly, but the idea is what is gaining momentum. Burlington rezoned it's center of town to allow approximately 350 housing units to be constructed over a 10 year period. The T has a variety of bus stops along Cambridge Street with express bus to Haymarket and Alewife. Nordbloom is in the process of developing a mixed use apartment buildings/offices/restaurants/shops on Middlesex Turnpike in Burlington - already passed voting/rezoning processes. Also very accesible to the T. Hopefully not a Natick Collection type of feel (but who knows). City of Lowell has started the Hamilton Canal district - $800 million development in a dilapitated part of town - ~800 housing units, office building, municipal buildings (courthouses), and restaurants/bars/shops. They've already began this, and have a couple of great restaurants/bars already located in this neighborhood. Although it is still kind of sketchy - it is coming along. This development is within close walking distance to the Gallagher T Station - 45 minutes to North Station. These are progressive developments that need to remove our dependency on oil/highways/cars/etc. When these projects are complete the government will realize that alot more people are taking public transportation and will extend the hours and the train trackes...this is all wishful thinking - but in the big picture it makes sense. I'm off topic on the Northeastern subject.
 
GW2500 said:
Having landscaped in Burlington I can tell you its residential neighborhoods are suburban at best and some places are down right rural
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12 miles from downtown Boston, 25k + people, 2200 people per square mile is rural? major center for technological firms, restaurants, and shopping = rural. division 1 & 2 high school eastern massachusetts athletics in the middlesex league = rural? T bus express and local to Alewife station = rural? makes 0 sense.
 
^^^ You must be a red devil. Yes I find Burlington very woodsy, more comparable to its northern neighbors of Billrica and Tewskburry, an exurb. And your 12 miles by the crow fly is more like 20 miles by the car drive, and Alewife being a good 6 mile highway drive isn't all that impressive either. Realy it's a lot like Saugus, from it's respective highway you might think it's a city, but once you leave the highway both become very exurban w/ overly grassy town centers.
 
Back to NU,
I took a course at the Burlington campus in 2001. As you drive up to the main building there are two large strips of grass in front of the main building, like oversized medians with parking on three sides. The professor (a bit of a nut) said that in the 60s there had been missile platforms stored beneath these grass strips, and that is why the grass never grows there. He believed the missiles were nuclear. He described the doors lifting up and the missile platforms rising into firing position. He went on to say that although the missiles had been removed, his watch always stopped when he entered the 1st administrative building (which can be seen clearly on google maps satellite feature, along with the strips of dead grass in front of the larger building near the back of the property.) I can in no way back this up and have never tried to substantiate the claim?I don?t want to ruin the story.
 
GW2500 said:
^^^ You must be a red devil. Yes I find Burlington very woodsy, more comparable to its northern neighbors of Billrica and Tewskburry, an exurb. And your 12 miles by the crow fly is more like 20 miles by the car drive, and Alewife being a good 6 mile highway drive isn't all that impressive either. Realy it's a lot like Saugus, from it's respective highway you might think it's a city, but once you leave the highway both become very exurban w/ overly grassy town centers.
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In Burlington Center alone there is currently 5 housing construction projects with a total of 65 units. In the coming years the plan is to expand this to 350 units. Nordbloom is building a mixed use residential/commercial development off of Middlesex turnpike with 4 story apartment buildings. Burlington was expanded with 128 in the 50's - fastest growing community in the state. 75% of people "from" Burlington now were from Charlestown, Somerville, Medford, North End...watch Burlington in the next 10 years prevail as a progressive city in eastern MA. What home town are you comparing Burlington too? From Burlington - Logan airport in 15 minutes, Fenway Park 15 minutes, Fanuel Hall 15 minutes, North End 15 minutes...all without travel times assuming there is no traffic. It's an ideal location for anyone commuting to the city. Sure it doesn't have the charm as the old neighborhoods - but those old neighborhoods don't have the same family charm as they used to either. They are now filled with yuppies that moved in - and alot of them are not "Boston" any more. It's just a fact of life - all the city slickers moved to the burbs, and all the want to be city slickers moved in. It's not an insult in any way...just an observation.
 
Burlington is not a city and never will be, its established residential neighborhoods are not going to change. They all have huge yards and quite often after they're back yard ends the woods begins. I once was driving through Burlington w/ a couple of college friends. One friend was from Burl the other from Malden. When we went through some woods and then drove past a large horse farm my Malden freind told my Burlington friend to never say he was from Boston. I'll admit that it's close to Boston, but not nearly as close as most of the Middlesex leauge.
 
But Burlington doesn't want to BE a city. While Burlington is making great strides (so says Mr. 1979) it is doing so in keeping with a very small town ideal. The problem is that there are two Burlingtons, the small town from long ago and the exurb full of sprawl and traffic.

The small New England town part is what people move there for. I don't think there is a member of this board who would drive past Burlington Commons and think there needs to be a tower built there.

The dark side of wanting to keep the small town feel but also grow is the sprawl, which I think is safe to say most here are vocally against. We aren't shaming Burlington for wanting to grow but rather how it's grown. I'm sure there are architecture/urban planning students doing thesis projects on turning 128 Burlington into a New Urbanist paradise where you can actually walk around.

When we complain about Northeastern's expansion it isn't because we don't want them to expand but because of how the expansion is going to be built; exactly the same as some office park that will only add to the traffic problems and sprawl. When I said "Olmstead is turning over in his grave" what I meant was that there was this great large public tract of land which could be landscaped into a fantastic park that would define the town but instead is lost in a sea of sprawl and neglect.

Burlington has a lot more promise than many other exurbs in the Boston region. What I'd like to see for Burlington is for well designed growth to occur around 128 which would turn the sprawling dross-scape into an urban environment. Unfortunately whenever someone says the dreaded "U" word people immediately think you want to build a mini-Manhattan in their backyards. How are 3 story buildings built close enough so you can walk around the end of the world? I digress.

In summation: boo suburban office park, yay to smart growth and suburban infill.
 
GW2500 said:
Burlington is not a city and never will be, its established residential neighborhoods are not going to change. They all have huge yards and quite often after they're back yard ends the woods begins. I once was driving through Burlington w/ a couple of college friends. One friend was from Burl the other from Malden. When we went through some woods and then drove past a large horse farm my Malden freind told my Burlington friend to never say he was from Boston. I'll admit that it's close to Boston, but not nearly as close as most of the Middlesex leauge.
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Brookline is not a city - it is a town. What is the point of "Burlington will never be a city" - WHO CARES. There aren't horse farms in Burlington - your're probably referring to Wilmington on the border of Burlington/Woburn.
"my Malden freind told my Burlington friend to never say he was from Boston."
This statement is a joke. People that live/grew up/moved to Burlington are all from Boston, Cambridge, Somerville and created neighborhoods. Including my family - Jamaica Plain/Cambridge/Somerville. In the 1950's when 128 was built the farms in Burlington were developed so rapidly that portions of Burlington were developed in a sprawling fashion, but But not all of it. Burlington is 15 minutes 128 - 93 from downtown Boston - that is just fact. Burlington has a TON of restaurants, pizza shops, plenty of stores, everything at your fingertips within a minute ride. Out of curiosity - what do you call your hometown - where'd you grow up/reside?
 
GW2500 said:
Near Lake Tittikaka
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NH I suspect - definitely not from NE. Probably a transplant from FL, or the West coast who came here for College, and is now a "Bostonian". I'm defending Burlington from your responses - have the audacity to answer the question. Please save the faceless internet replies for someone else.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
But Burlington doesn't want to BE a city. While Burlington is making great strides (so says Mr. 1979) it is doing so in keeping with a very small town ideal. The problem is that there are two Burlingtons, the small town from long ago and the exurb full of sprawl and traffic.

The small New England town part is what people move there for. I don't think there is a member of this board who would drive past Burlington Commons and think there needs to be a tower built there.

The dark side of wanting to keep the small town feel but also grow is the sprawl, which I think is safe to say most here are vocally against. We aren't shaming Burlington for wanting to grow but rather how it's grown. I'm sure there are architecture/urban planning students doing thesis projects on turning 128 Burlington into a New Urbanist paradise where you can actually walk around.

When we complain about Northeastern's expansion it isn't because we don't want them to expand but because of how the expansion is going to be built; exactly the same as some office park that will only add to the traffic problems and sprawl. When I said "Olmstead is turning over in his grave" what I meant was that there was this great large public tract of land which could be landscaped into a fantastic park that would define the town but instead is lost in a sea of sprawl and neglect.

Burlington has a lot more promise than many other exurbs in the Boston region. What I'd like to see for Burlington is for well designed growth to occur around 128 which would turn the sprawling dross-scape into an urban environment. Unfortunately whenever someone says the dreaded "U" word people immediately think you want to build a mini-Manhattan in their backyards. How are 3 story buildings built close enough so you can walk around the end of the world? I digress.

In summation: boo suburban office park, yay to smart growth and suburban infill.
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Smart growth is a progressive way of thinking, and a majority of Burlington residents voted in favor of this a couple of years back for Burlington Center (Cambridge Street) which will have 300 + units of housing in the form of multi-family dwellings within a dense urban downtown. New England Executive park pationed to continue to develop the property with a denser foot print - restaurants/stores/bus stops and this has been welcomed by Burlington planners/residents. Nordbloom is creating 100's of apartments/storefronts/restaurants in it's Northwest Park suburban sprawl that was built in the 1960's/1970's. This is considered a shovel ready project by the state of MA - and with this progressive development it will transform these sections of town. I agree with your ideas and to add the suburbanization of the USA caused us to become dependent on oil. Smart growth is the ideal zoning of the future.
 
Actually I grew up in Stoneham. I also spent a lot of time in Medford/Malden. I landscaped in 2005 and 2006 and thursday was entirely devoted to Burlington. It's a woodsy area, some of the main streets don't even have sidewalks. Its nothing like Malden or Lowell, more like Billrica and Bedford. Im not saying Stoneham is anything more than a suburb, that being said the southern side of Stoneham is inbetween urban and suburban and Stoneham sq is all of 8 miles north of the Fanuel Hall.
 
GW2500 said:
Actually I grew up in Stoneham. I also spent a lot of time in Medford/Malden. I landscaped in 2005 and 2006 and thursday was entirely devoted to Burlington. It's a woodsy area, some of the main streets don't even have sidewalks. Its nothing like Malden or Lowell, more like Billrica and Bedford. Im not saying Stoneham is anything more than a suburb, that being said the southern side of Stoneham is inbetween urban and suburban and Stoneham sq is all of 8 miles north of the Fanuel Hall.
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Burlington has an entirely different landscape from Malden, or Lowell that is obvious. These cities were well established way before Burlington was. Stoneham - also a small town with a TON of conveniences just like Burlington. Urban - maybe not, maybe on the edge. However, with the rezoning of large areas for multi family/mixed use (commercial/residential) Burlington's landscape is quickly changing. I am not denying that portions of Burlington are woodsy - not sure what main streets don't have sidewalks, but what does that have to do with development projects that are occuring now? People that live/grew up in Burlington as well as Stoneham typically are from the gritty era of Boston - look at the population decrease in the 1950's when 128 was built.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston
There is a housing boom in Burlington - over the past 5 years 500 + apartments built. Within the next 5-10 years there will be 1000 more apartments/townhouses built. At the moment there is approximately 80 housing units being built on Cambridge Street.
http://www.wickedlocal.com/burlington/topstories/x1042481515/Town-Center-housing-boom
Burlington is FAR from a rural community. I haven't lived there in 10 years, and agree that in past decades of major development it should have been zoned in a smart growth format and people have realized that. It is nothing like Billerica/Bedford - those communities have huge areas of forests and undeveloped land. Burlington is developed to the point where they had to rezone areas in order to accomodate multi family dwellings.
 
There are some exceptions in that area, though - Main Street in Melrose by Wyoming Hill is a surprisingly successful main street, and far more urban than anything around Oak Grove further south. It actually reminds me a lot of Charles Street in Beacon Hill. I don't see why this can't be a model for further up towards 128 as well.
 
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Here is the Town of Burlington's page on the town center overlay. As a native Burlingtonian whose parents still live there (my father was even on the Planning Board and Conservation Commission in the 1970s and 1980s), I may be a little biased when I say this, but I think the Town has historically been pretty progressive in its planning practices, compared to other suburbs. Keep in mind that Burlington was a very small agricultural community from its incorporation in 1799 well into the 1950s, so there was never any significant development there until well into the automobile age. In the sixties through eighties, it kept the majority of office and large scale retail and commercial development in its southwestern quadrant, bounded by Route 128 to the north, Cambridge (aka US Route 3) to the east and the Woburn and Lexington town lines to the south and the Middlesex Turnpike/US Route 3 (the expressway part) corridor to the west. Some nearby towns' residential areas are peppered with office parks or commercial development that's incongrous with the immediate area. In the late eighties the town introdiced a town wide mini bus system that's still in use and in the nineties, it embarked on a sidewalk construction program that made neighborhoods more walkable. I grew up on a secondary major road that did not have a sidewalk until 1994 that is about a three quarters of a mile from the Town Common. When I was living there, people from my neighborhood would never think of walking to the Town Common area (where the municipal complex is (Town Hall, library, police, fire, Human Services Building) or the Center (where Shaw's and a number of other stores are), but now it is not uncommon to see people walking through the neighborhood with pushing a grocery cart, or people like my mother, who is in her late sixties and works near the Common, walking to work. That is something she never thought of doing before the sidewalk was built. The overlay district is just the next trend and has even sparked a little housing boom.
 
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Roxxma said:
Here is the Town of Burlington's page on the town center overlay. As a native Burlingtonian whose parents still live there (my father was even on the Planning Board and Conservation Commission in the 1970s and 1980s), I may be a little biased when I say this, but I think the Town has historically been pretty progressive in its planning practices, compared to other suburbs. Keep in mind that Burlington was a very small agricultural community from its incorporation in 1799 well into the 1950s, so there was never any significant development there until well into the automobile age. In the sixties through eighties, it kept the majority of office and large scale retail and commercial development in its southwestern quadrant, bounded by Route 128 to the north, Cambridge (aka US Route 3) to the east and the Woburn and Lexington town lines to the south and the Middlesex Turnpike/US Route 3 (the expressway part) corridor to the west. Some nearby towns' residential areas are peppered with office parks or commercial development that's incongrous with the immediate area. In the late eighties the town introdiced a town wide mini bus system that's still in use and in the nineties, it embarked on a sidewalk construction program that made neighborhoods more walkable. I grew up on a secondary major road that did not have a sidewalk until 1994 that is about a three quarters of a mile from the Town Common. When I was living there, people from my neighborhood would never think of walking to the Town Common area (where the municipal complex is (Town Hall, library, police, fire, Human Services Building) or the Center (where Shaw's and a number of other stores are), but now it is not uncommon to see people walking through the neighborhood with pushing a grocery cart, or people like my mother, who is in her late sixties and works near the Common, walking to work. That is something she never thought of doing before the sidewalk was built. The overlay district is just the next trend and has even sparked a little housing boom.
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Yeah the little housing boom has been to date almost 1000 units in the past 5 years, 300 more for the center, and then another 1000 near the office parks within a decade. Very good addition to this thread!
 
Shepard said:
There are some exceptions in that area, though - Main Street in Melrose by Wyoming Hill is a surprisingly successful main street, and far more urban than anything around Oak Grove further south. It actually reminds me a lot of Charles Street in Beacon Hill. I don't see why this can't be a model for further up towards 128 as well.
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Stoneham, Woburn, Winchester, Lexington, Belmont...all have successful main streets. These are generally walkable communities with basic amenities that are ultimately bedroom communities to Boston. Burlington really services the Northern communities up Rt 3, and 128 who lack the convenience of Boston for shopping and restaurant/entertainment. Burlington is not designed to be urban, and from the looks of these new urbanism plans, it's not going to become urban.

It would have been great for Northeastern to ditch it's suburban school plans and take up residence in those Lowell mills, but I think now I'm shooting for the stars...
 
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