One Kenmore Square | 560 Commonwealth Avenue | Kenmore Square

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Equilibria said:
How would this be harder to plow?
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Well, it isn't just the plowing. It's clearing the sidewalks, curb-cuts, etc. And then there's driving through it.

I'm not rooting against this, but I think we need to ask some hard (region-based) questions about it. What's clear on a map is often incomprehensible behind the wheel, and that adds an element of risk that "data" doesn't account for.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Beton Brut said:
Well, it isn't just the plowing. It's clearing the sidewalks, curb-cuts, etc. And then there's driving through it.

I'm not rooting against this, but I think we need to ask some hard (region-based) questions about it. What's clear on a map is often incomprehensible behind the wheel, and that adds an element of risk that "data" doesn't account for.
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Well said.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

If youre coming from Fenway park on brookline how are you supposed to get on Comm ave going westbound? You have go down around the bus station?

Agree they need to fix the bike lanes thru kenmore, I've ridden thru there and I didnt feel very safe
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Suffolk 83 said:
If youre coming from Fenway park on brookline how are you supposed to get on Comm ave going westbound? You have go down around the bus station?

Agree they need to fix the bike lanes thru kenmore, I've ridden thru there and I didnt feel very safe
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Like the video said, this is functionally a big signalized roundabout.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Suffolk 83 said:
If youre coming from Fenway park on brookline how are you supposed to get on Comm ave going westbound? You have go down around the bus station?
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That is no different from the current arrangement. There is no left turn from Brookline Ave., drivers wanting to go Westward have to drive through the square and turn left at Kenmore St., then left again on to Beacon/Comm Ave.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

HenryAlan said:
That is no different from the current arrangement. There is no left turn from Brookline Ave., drivers wanting to go Westward have to drive through the square and turn left at Kenmore St., then left again on to Beacon/Comm Ave.
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Or go the other way - outbound on Brookline to Park Dr. @ Landmark Center, then Mountfort / Carlton to Cottage Farm / BU Bridge.

The point is that its a pretty low-volume movement, which is why its not possible in the status quo setup either.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Beton Brut said:
Well, it isn't just the plowing. It's clearing the sidewalks, curb-cuts, etc. And then there's driving through it.

I'm not rooting against this, but I think we need to ask some hard (region-based) questions about it. What's clear on a map is often incomprehensible behind the wheel, and that adds an element of risk that "data" doesn't account for.
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Agreed that those are worth thinking through.

But I can't see why any of those issues should be anything close to a dealbreaker on this.

Yes it's likely that drivers will be a little confused and frustrated for the first week or two, but it's not *that* complicated.

Compare, for example, to navigating Mass ave. inbound across Harvard Square...

...or the Stuart / Charles / Boylston tangle in the Theater District..
...or Congress / Atlantic / Pearl on the Greenway..
.. or getting to the ramps @ haymarket through a bunch of one-way feeders,
... or getting to Storrow from Mass Ave...
... or getting across the BU bridge from either direction...
...or Union Sq in Somerville, and around the McGrath...
...or Davis Sq....
..or the wrong-side one-way pairs in Maverick (and especially the mixing zone on the north end of Maverick)....

etc. etc...

We can handle this.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

...and after wathcing the video again, i'd add this thought...

Even though it might be somewhat less intuitive / straight for some drivers, the new layout would be much simpler, safer and more direct for pedestrians and bikers.

...and the extra turns will slow the cars down too.

I think this is a great proposal and I really hope it happens.

(and I'll add that we should consider eliminating the left turn from Beacon WB to Brookline WB all together...or at least on game days ... and turning that stretch of Brookline into a woonerf.)
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Before you decide whether you do/don't support the new arrangement, please remember how much the current traffic pattern / pedestrian experience completely, absolutely sucks.

...just sayin'
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

CSTH said:
...and after wathcing the video again, i'd add this thought...

Even though it might be somewhat less intuitive / straight for some drivers, the new layout would be much simpler, safer and more direct for pedestrians and bikers.

...and the extra turns will slow the cars down too.

I think this is a great proposal and I really hope it happens.
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I support this idea too, but let's wait until the City analyzes it before we simply parrot what Jeff Speck says in the video as gospel...
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

The biggest problem with the traffic pattern is where Beacon and Comm Ave meet Westbound. From Beacon, you are basically sent right into the middle of lanes (as in, going straight would put the dotted line between your tires) and it's a free for all which ones you end up in.

This might correct that in the sense that it won't matter if you are in the lane that forks onto Comm as opposed to forking onto Beacon. However, it's still by far the biggest mess in that area and I don't see how this will correct it.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Hiring Jeff Speck to help design the layout was an A+ hire. He's excellent and it gives me a lot of confidence that the redesigned layout will help to truly transform the square for the better. As he said, "Our plan is to create a Kenmore Square whose heart is a public space, rather than a busy roadway." He gets it.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Equilibria said:
I support this idea too, but let's wait until the City analyzes it before we simply parrot what Jeff Speck says in the video as gospel...
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Fair enough - but i think that 'shorter, simpler paths for peds and bikers' and 'traffic calming street layout vs. existing drag strip boulevards' are pretty close to being objective, unambiguous descriptions of the proposal...
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

I like it, but they still left that "left turn of death" for cyclists from Comm Ave onto Brookline Ave. With cycle tracks everywhere, it's weird that they still expect people on bikes to cut over 3 lanes and be sandwiched between vehicular lanes. They didn't even include a peg-a-track connecting the floating bike lane to the one on Brookline Ave.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Equilibria said:
Here's last night's slides (warning, big file):

http://www.bostonplans.org/document...ilings/kenmore-hotel-iag-meeting-presentation

There's a whole building to discuss here people, not just a road plan! And it's a doozy!
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The render on page 38 is WOW. The tower is indeed a doozy. I liked the last iteration but this one is off the charts!

Also 314' 6" to mech so it gained almost 20 feet! That's a pretty substantial difference for this area.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

DZH22 said:
The render on page 38 is WOW. The tower is indeed a doozy. I liked the last iteration but this one is off the charts!

Also 314' 6" to mech so it gained almost 20 feet! That's a pretty substantial difference for this area.
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1mHdJ0Mh.jpg


Wow indeed.
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

i'll be pleasantly surprised if this gets built as currently rendered.

it'd be awesome, but some gabby fucknut will manage to whine enough that they'll whittle this down to the standard non-descript box (triangular box, but still).
 
Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

I don't understand why we should expect this traffic pattern to succeed where Sullivan Square fails. It's basically the same design, right? And in Sullivan Square there are far fewer pedestrians to contend with.
 
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