Other People's Rail: Amtrak, commuter rail, rapid transit news & views outside New England

Making it more difficult to evade fares has been shown to have a significant effect on reducing antisocial behavior such as smoking on the train. Those antisocial behaviors while often not an actual serious threat to people can make them uncomfortable and discourage riding transit. What St. Louis and NYC are doing with police intervention is stupid and wasting money to make the system more hostile, while Philly, SF, and LA with their new harder to bypass fare gates is a positive for their systems. I think Boston has an alright balance when the stations have a redshirt or info booth attendant in my personal experience.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
Making it more difficult to evade fares has been shown to have a significant effect on reducing antisocial behavior such as smoking on the train. Those antisocial behaviors while often not an actual serious threat to people can make them uncomfortable and discourage riding transit. What St. Louis and NYC are doing with police intervention is stupid and wasting money to make the system more hostile, while Philly, SF, and LA with their new harder to bypass fare gates is a positive for their systems. I think Boston has an alright balance when the stations have a redshirt or info booth attendant in my personal experience.
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This is also a benefit of having fares in the first place.
In a perfect world I would support fare-free transit, but I'm definitely coming around more to the idea that fares are good not for the revenue they produce but for keeping people off the system who aren't using it for transportation.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
Making it more difficult to evade fares has been shown to have a significant effect on reducing antisocial behavior such as smoking on the train. Those antisocial behaviors while often not an actual serious threat to people can make them uncomfortable and discourage riding transit. What St. Louis and NYC are doing with police intervention is stupid and wasting money to make the system more hostile, while Philly, SF, and LA with their new harder to bypass fare gates is a positive for their systems. I think Boston has an alright balance when the stations have a redshirt or info booth attendant in my personal experience.
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The NYC interventions I was talking about are not the police stationed in stations. There are targeted mental health worker groups who collect people who are clearly having mental health issues in stations, and move them to treatment facilities.

The redshirts in the T stations ignore mental health breakdown issues. I watched this in action at Park Street on Sunday. Useless!
 
JeffDowntown said:
The redshirts in the T stations ignore mental health breakdown issues. I watched this in action at Park Street on Sunday. Useless!
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Should they intervene? I don't think they're any more qualified than a random passenger.

Incorporating mental health professionals as part of the transit police or some other form of collaboration sounds significantly more effective.
 
JeffDowntown said:
The NYC interventions I was talking about are not the police stationed in stations. There are targeted mental health worker groups who collect people who are clearly having mental health issues in stations, and move them to treatment facilities.

The redshirts in the T stations ignore mental health breakdown issues. I watched this in action at Park Street on Sunday. Useless!
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I also like what NYC does with the mentally ill on the streets. I think purely voluntary solutions will never be enough to make sure people get the help they need. Hopefully this kind of outreach wont be lost when Eric Adams goes to jail himself lol
 
KCasiglio said:
Should they intervene? I don't think they're any more qualified than a random passenger.

Incorporating mental health professionals as part of the transit police or some other form of collaboration sounds significantly more effective.
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I don't think the redshirts should directly intervene, but they don't ever seem to call for help either. They are supposed to be the eyes and ears in the system.
 
The DC Metro security presence significantly increased year over year and to noticeable improvement, not only for fare evaders (which was quite literally a "running" joke on the Metro) but for crime prevention. I can't speak to actual statistics, only to personal experience as a regular Metro user.

The change is noteworthy, especially for DC in their fledgling attempt to get ridership numbers back to pre-Covid levels.
 
The long delayed 2.3 billion Long Bridge expansion project across the Potomac had its ceremonial groundbreaking today. Expected completion 2030. This expansion will separate passenger and freight services currently sharing tracks on the existing Long Bridge. There will also be a new pedestrian and bike bridge across the Potomac easily connecting the Rock Creek Trail in DC to Long Bridge Park in VA.

INTERACTIVE: New Long Bridge would make commute easier, faster between Virginia, DC
 
bdurden said:
The DC Metro security presence significantly increased year over year and to noticeable improvement, not only for fare evaders (which was quite literally a "running" joke on the Metro) but for crime prevention. I can't speak to actual statistics, only to personal experience as a regular Metro user.

The change is noteworthy, especially for DC in their fledgling attempt to get ridership numbers back to pre-Covid levels.
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Honestly I would understand fare evasion on the DC Metro; I considered it for a half second the first time I was trying to figure out the correct combination of peak/off-peak pricing and distance for my fare, and if I could use my phone to pay. After a long Amtrak Ride I just wanted to get to my hotel.

I do think there's a discussion here about fare evasion as a solution for riders who can't figure out fares. Obviously not a good solution, but I've known many people who would are very anti-subway hopping that would do it in other cities/networks because they didn't want to figure it out a new app, ticket, or payment option.
 
thepixelnation said:
I do think there's a discussion here about fare evasion as a solution for riders who can't figure out fares. Obviously not a good solution, but I've known many people who would are very anti-subway hopping that would do it in other cities/networks because they didn't want to figure it out a new app, ticket, or payment option.
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There's a whole song about it in fact.
 
thepixelnation said:
Get any Charlie slander off this forum. He never broke one law and learned to live with the consequences of his actions. That man is a hero.
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Charlie might not have, but I don't think it would be an unfair reading of the lyrics to say that they kind of promote fare dodging. ("Fight the fare increase")
 
TheRatmeister said:
Charlie might not have, but I don't think it would be an unfair reading of the lyrics to say that they kind of promote fare dodging. ("Fight the fare increase")
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not to be too into the technicalities (if there's one place I can be it's here), but wouldn't the action for Fighting the Fare increase have been voting for Walter A. O'Brien? I would be very surprised if a politician was urging people to skip the nickel.
 
thepixelnation said:
Honestly I would understand fare evasion on the DC Metro; I considered it for a half second the first time I was trying to figure out the correct combination of peak/off-peak pricing and distance for my fare, and if I could use my phone to pay. After a long Amtrak Ride I just wanted to get to my hotel.

I do think there's a discussion here about fare evasion as a solution for riders who can't figure out fares. Obviously not a good solution, but I've known many people who would are very anti-subway hopping that would do it in other cities/networks because they didn't want to figure it out a new app, ticket, or payment option.
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Not to be coy — the SMART app is extremely easy.
Download — load funds — tap.

Those evading fares in DC do not tend to be visitors. That being said, over the last 1-2 years DC installed new saloon-style faregates at all stations -- evading fares is not easy anymore (though I see it from those who can quite literally jump the gate). It's just a lot easier in Boston, especially on the Green Line.
 
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bdurden said:
The long delayed 2.3 billion Long Bridge expansion project across the Potomac had its ceremonial groundbreaking today. Expected completion 2030. This expansion will separate passenger and freight services currently sharing tracks on the existing Long Bridge. There will also be a new pedestrian and bike bridge across the Potomac easily connecting the Rock Creek Trail in DC to Long Bridge Park in VA.

INTERACTIVE: New Long Bridge would make commute easier, faster between Virginia, DC
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Hopeful this facilitates Acela expansion from DC to Richmond, and eventually to Charlotte.
 
bdurden said:
Hopeful this facilitates Acela expansion from DC to Richmond, and eventually to Charlotte.
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D.C.-Richmond electrification isn't yet in the cards, so the Acelas won't be reaching south of D.C. anytime foreseeable. It's a major CSX double-stack freight corridor between the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic, and while the tri-track expansion planned in Virginia is largely going to segregate the increased passenger service by track from freight traffic the ROW-sharing agreement is very complex and allows for flex-slot sharing of the tracks. So anything they electrify is ultimately going to have to be at 23 ft. vertical clearance, which is going to take a while to pay for. But Northeast Regionals, which are going to be dual-mode loco equipped in a couple years with the fleet renewal to end the time-consuming D.C. engine swaps, are basically going to explode across Virginia. They're looking to convert a lot more D.C.-terminating runs into Virginia run-thru runs, which will enormously saturate the Mid-Atlantic with more travel options and provide a feeder for North Carolina slots when they and Virginia get the S-Line reopened for 110 MPH passenger service to Raleigh.

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bdurden said:
Not to be coy — the SMART app is extremely easy.
Download — load funds — tap.

Those evading fares in DC do not tend to be visitors. That being said, over the last 1-2 years DC installed new saloon-style faregates at all stations -- evading fares is not easy anymore (though I see it from those who can quite literally jump the gate). It's just a lot easier in Boston, especially on the Green Line.
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To be fare, the real pathway is walk to station -> see sign for SMART APP -> download app -> open app and create account (and maybe an email verification) -> figure out where you're going and what the fare is -> load enough money to make trip -> tap.

Oh shoot and now you've missed your train.

Coming from NYC where OMNY makes the pathway is just "Tap Credit Card" with only one fare, I was a lot of steps for a first time user.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
D.C.-Richmond electrification isn't yet in the cards, so the Acelas won't be reaching south of D.C. anytime foreseeable. It's a major CSX double-stack freight corridor between the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic, and while the tri-track expansion planned in Virginia is largely going to segregate the increased passenger service by track from freight traffic the ROW-sharing agreement is very complex and allows for flex-slot sharing of the tracks. So anything they electrify is ultimately going to have to be at 23 ft. vertical clearance, which is going to take a while to pay for. But Northeast Regionals, which are going to be dual-mode loco equipped in a couple years with the fleet renewal to end the time-consuming D.C. engine swaps, are basically going to explode across Virginia. They're looking to convert a lot more D.C.-terminating runs into Virginia run-thru runs, which will enormously saturate the Mid-Atlantic with more travel options and provide a feeder for North Carolina slots when they and Virginia get the S-Line reopened for 110 MPH passenger service to Raleigh.
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Isn't CSX opposed to electrification between DC and Richmond? I seem to remember hearing that electrification was out of the cards when VA bought all of this trackage from CSX in 2019.
 
themissinglink said:
Isn't CSX opposed to electrification between DC and Richmond? I seem to remember hearing that electrification was out of the cards when VA bought all of this trackage from CSX in 2019.
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Not electrification per se. CSX was opposed to absolute traffic separation (as in: splitting the baby so CSX sticks to its track 100% of the time, Amtrak/VRE stick to their tracks 100% of the time). That renders short-term electrification impractical because those track-sharing flex slots could send a double-stacked freight onto a passenger track every once in awhile or send an Amtrak down the freight track every once in awhile. It prevents Amtrak from just brute-force chopping down the clearances should it choose to electrify only its tracks. The whole ROW would have to be cleared for 23 ft., which is going to be costly given the number of overhead bridges already maxed out to double-stack clearance.

Unlike the B&A here on the Inland Route, the sheer quantity of future passenger traffic (especially after the S-Line restoration brings North Carolina Regionals into the mix) makes eventual electrification of D.C.-Richmond a worthwhile goal. It's just not going to be anytime immediate because of the cost premiums involved for all those clearance mods.
 
www.ctpublic.org

CT dollars boost Shore Line East rail service in continued pandemic recovery

There are new peak-time trains for Shore Line East commuter rail as part of Connecticut’s effort to build back service since the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.ctpublic.org www.ctpublic.org

Shore Line East hasn’t been running at its full former strength for years at this point, but one of the two new round-trips they’ve restored includes peak service to/from Stamford — the first time since before the pandemic they’ve offered that one-seat connection. (Although it could have been a lot worse, since at least there were always timed SLE—>MNRR transfers at New Haven.)

It will be interesting to see how ridership responds to these extra trips. SLE is stuck in a vicious cycle. CT has been obstinate about restoring frequencies on SLE until ridership grows (the usual chicken-and-egg problem), so this is a rare window of opportunity to show the extra investment in extra trips will yield results that merit further investment.
 
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