Please stop.

Status
Not open for further replies.

BeyondRevenue

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
422
Reaction score
809
Absolutely not. I'm very liberal with handing out likes in general. However, I also happen to post as much (photo) content here as anybody else on the site (except maybe Beeline). If, after time, there is not one iota of reciprocation towards any of my posts, I notice that. Why wouldn't I notice that?

To be blunt, if I were to keep handing out likes to somebody who gives me 0 in return on 10x the content, then it makes me feel like some kind of cuck. If you are going to be stingy and never acknowledge people's efforts, then eventually you shouldn't expect them to acknowledge yours either. I'm also not saying it has to be the same percentage or even anywhere near the same percentage, but I definitely take note of those goose eggs and ultimately choose to give those posters the same treatment that they have given me.
Oh, man.
(and I respond at risk of personal peril)
A few words of advice: We accomplish a lot more in life by not caring who takes credit. I feel confident saying it would not even occur to most here that anyone was withholding holding likes or would want to. It's not even worth bringing up. It doesn't register. It's not currency. It's not a vote. It's a few pixels in void of diversion.
Clear the imaginary ledger and remove any sense the Comment-iverse tends toward ANY sort of justice or balance. Purge the Seeking Vindication tracks from your playlist. You, like me and many in this world will often not be recognized or seen... and that's really okay! In fact, it's awesome! None of us are that important! Revel in it! We will all go unrewarded. Expect it.
I can say this: If you exhibit pain, you will collect pain from its' immediate reflection.
And cuck? If I were you I'd retire that word yesterday. It comes with steamer trunks of ugly, emotionally wrought baggage and is a flare gun level signal to many people to keep a safe distance.
All the best, man. I really hope you're okay.
 

KentXie

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
4,152
Reaction score
639
It's all about money, not race. You don't think Jayson Tatum and his $32.6 million salary could buy a home in any town he wants? Obviously the salary averages aren't equal, but a rich non-white person is not going to be excluded from anywhere, unless everybody in the town somehow colludes not to sell their property to certain people. It's hard enough getting 3 people to agree what to get for dinner, let alone having an entire town collude to do something illegal.

I understand your sentiment based on averages, but it's extremely misleading and flat-out untrue based on absolutes. You could point to the combined richest/whitest town in the state, and if the Celtics starting 5 wanted to live there then there would be 5 new black families moving to that town, no questions asked and no additional barriers besides them being able to afford it.

By the way, the average pay of Asians in Massachusetts is even higher than white people, which is the typical inconvenient truth in America that blows a hole in claims like the above:
Please stop using Asians in your attempt to "blow a hole" on the oppression that other non-white race face. Asians immigrants were not brought here as slaves, denied education, and then had their town burned down because they became too successful (Tulsa Race Massacre). Many Asian immigrants were only allowed to immigrate to the US if they can show proof that they or someone that is sponsoring them, came from an educated background, skewing their education level and thus earning power higher than those brought against their will or had their land stolen from them. While we, on average earn more than white people, we ae often shut out from leadership positions. I, myself, have been passed over for leadership positions despite performing at the same level, if not higher, than many of my white colleagues who were promoted. A former company I worked for had a whole meeting announcing promotions where not a single person of color was mentioned.


 
Last edited:

DZH22

Superstar
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
23,667
You're probably just short, which is the most proven current discrimination in the workplace. I'm relatively short and haven't gotten all the raises or promotions I deserved either.

https://www.hcamag.com/us/news/general/height-discrimination-is-a-real-lawsuit-risk/155767#:~:text=Controlling for gender, weight and,regardless of an employee's age.
"Controlling for gender, weight and age, each inch of height equates to about $780 more per year in wages, on average. The study found height had a greater influence on income than gender, and its effect held steady regardless of an employee’s age."

Or maybe you just need to play the game a little better. You and I both. Not everybody who gets promoted is the most competent or capable, that's for sure. In my company almost everybody at the top levels is either a woman and/or non-white, so there certainly are opportunities. I think a lot of it is just based on luck. Right place at the right time, or knowing the right person, or impressing the right person in the specific way they want to be impressed. Sometimes where you perform higher is not what is being measured, or the only thing being measured. It's really some combo of capabilities x perseverance x luck. If you're not where you want to be, keep plugging away, or jump ship to a different company and get yourself a raise if that's what you want.

Tying back to this thread, at the end of the day if you make enough money then you can live wherever you want.
 

Smuttynose

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
387
Reaction score
921
You're probably just short, which is the most proven current discrimination in the workplace. I'm relatively short and haven't gotten all the raises or promotions I deserved either.
This post was painful to read and whitesplaining at its most epic. I've never met you, I've never spent even a few seconds in your shoes, but let me explain how all of your experiences can't possibly be real and how I'm the real victim here... I don't know how anyone who has lived through this time period and seen the horrific acts of violence perpetrated against Asian Americans in public spaces could possibly argue that discrimination against Asian Americans cannot possibly be a thing anymore.

I also don't think it's settled that heightism has supplanted every other form of discrimination as the great evil of our time. The only study I've seen comparing height and skin tone on earnings found that darker skin tone resulted in a significantly greater loss of earnings than low height.


As for the question of exclusionary zoning, it's probably true that it's more oriented to exclude lower income people, but it's impossible to completely disregard race because a higher proportion of low income people are not white. Planning Board/Local Government meetings where zoning is discussed and formulated are public meetings. No one is going to stand up and say 'How can our town keep poor people or non-whites from moving here?' but there is an undercurrent of exclusion that helps form many of these zoning decisions.
 

KentXie

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
4,152
Reaction score
639
You're probably just short, which is the most proven current discrimination in the workplace. I'm relatively short and haven't gotten all the raises or promotions I deserved either.

https://www.hcamag.com/us/news/general/height-discrimination-is-a-real-lawsuit-risk/155767#:~:text=Controlling for gender, weight and,regardless of an employee's age.
"Controlling for gender, weight and age, each inch of height equates to about $780 more per year in wages, on average. The study found height had a greater influence on income than gender, and its effect held steady regardless of an employee’s age."

Or maybe you just need to play the game a little better. You and I both. Not everybody who gets promoted is the most competent or capable, that's for sure. In my company almost everybody at the top levels is either a woman and/or non-white, so there certainly are opportunities. I think a lot of it is just based on luck. Right place at the right time, or knowing the right person, or impressing the right person in the specific way they want to be impressed. Sometimes where you perform higher is not what is being measured, or the only thing being measured. It's really some combo of capabilities x perseverance x luck. If you're not where you want to be, keep plugging away, or jump ship to a different company and get yourself a raise if that's what you want.

Tying back to this thread, at the end of the day if you make enough money then you can live wherever you want.
Nope my other Asian colleague who is also of fair height and made important contribution was also not promoted (he's the same height as many of the white colleagues here who not every single one of them are over 6 ft) and the moment he left, his team was in shambles which unsurprisingly I was given the opportunity to have it cleaned up. Despite this, I was passed over for promotion again. After fellow coworkers of color confided with me about it, I had a 1:1 with my white executive about the promotion meeting and his response was "we knew about the optic but went ahead with it anyways." And yes I called out the lack of promotion twice before they actually promoted me the first time so this isn't a case of me being quiet. In the end, I left the company for an LA base company where the CTO is Asian, the Head of Data Analytics is Asian and my director is Asian + a higher pay. The problem here is that racists companies still exists when they shouldn't and people making excuses for them are part of the problem. This is also true for those taking the easy route and pretending that there aren't communities that would not welcome people that don't look like them just because they have money. Yeah, maybe not Jayson Tatum because he's a famous sports athlete but it doesn't take a lot of time to find videos of Black Americans accosted by white folks thinking they don't live in the condo or house they own
 
Last edited:

DZH22

Superstar
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
23,667
I don't know how anyone who has lived through this time period and seen the horrific acts of violence perpetrated against Asian Americans in public spaces could possibly argue that discrimination against Asian Americans cannot possibly be a thing anymore.
Nope my other Asian colleague who is also of fair height and made important contribution were also not promoted (he's the same height as many of the white colleagues here who not every single one of them are over 6 ft) and the moment he left, his team was in shambles which unsurprisingly I was given the opportunity to have it cleaned up. Despite this, was passed over for promotion. I called out my white executive about the promotion meeting and his response was "we knew about the optic but went ahead with it anyways." And yes I called out the lack of promotion twice before they actually promoted me the first time so this isn't a case of me being quiet. In the end, I left the company for an LA base company where the CTO is Asian, the Chief of Data Analytics is Asian and my director is Asian + a higher pay. The problem here is that racists companies still exists when they shouldn't and people making excuses for them are part of the problem.
Let's start with me... I'm Jewish, who only happen to be the most hated group of people in the history of Earth for a couple thousand years. There's 15.2 million Jewish people in the world, which is 1.4 million LESS than there were in 1939. (yeah, something happened to Jewish people around that time) On the other hand the population of Asia is about 4.7 BILLION. That means there's over 300 Asian people for every Jewish person worldwide. I think I know a thing or 2 about anti-semitism, especially as a kid. I also have a hard time feeling sorry for a group that in aggregate outnumbers my group 300 to 1, or about 2.5 to 1 in the US. I can empathize with anybody to a certain level, but I'm not going to cry because a deserving person didn't get promoted that day. For some reason it seems like higher-ups in many companies employ a bunch of morons, so maybe they just felt threatened that you were smarter than they were.

Everybody is discriminated against to some extent. At my current company (and other companies with government contracts) they get more credit with the government for having a higher percentage of women and minority owned business partners, for example. I know that if I tried to start up something in the same arena I'd have a hard time landing contracts due to that stipulation. For Kent, your prior company sounded like they mistreated Asians which isn't right. However, if your current company is mainly run by Asians, how do they treat any non-Asian working there? Would I have the same opportunities at that same company as, say... you? It sounds like you just found a better spot for your own situation, and I'm glad for it. I just wish you would stop commenting and whining about my posts so much. Accept that you found something better without being stuck in the past.

Try having a marketing degree (which is why I needed to go back to grad school) and realizing that the field doesn't even really exist, and 99% of postings are absolute scam jobs. There are thousands upon thousands of people who get suckered into this and it's probably 1000x worse than you have ever experienced in the workplace.

There's a ton of good interviews about this too. I did it for only a couple of days but it has ruined tons of people's lives for months/years.

But now, let's get back to the rationale of the original argument. I point out Asians in the US in general because on average they earn higher incomes than white people. That doesn't mean that discrimination doesn't exist. What it does mean is that "white supremacy" isn't automatically holding every other group back, otherwise no group would ever have been able to surpass them in America. Also if you want to talk about who's really holding you back, look at for example the ultra-liberal colleges that take less Asians than they should. That's a real, quantifiable discrimination but since it's the left eating their own I guess it's just inconvenient.

I will leave you with Andrew Yang's podcast, called "Forward with Andrew Yang" which is based on him attempting to start a new political party. While I vehemently disagree with about 25-30% of his platform, I find him level-headed and focused on issues that actually matter to greater amounts of people. I strongly respect him and at least listen to his ideas, even if I don't align with him completely. That's how this country was supposed to work. That's how the "melting pot" is supposed to work. If he just wanted to say he was a victim I wouldn't be interested, but he has real ideas and doesn't attempt to play one group off of another. I'm not sure I would want him as president (although most of his ideas are totally reasonable, or at least defended well) but I could see him succeeding as a Senator, and if his party helps break our 2-party mold all the better.

I feel like that's how the American Melting Pot is supposed to work; we get good ideas from all over the spectrum and then incorporate the best of them into our own lives and to help shape the country going forward. Dirty words like "cultural appropriation" should be rebranded as cultural appreciation. When I go out to eat at all the various restaurants around here, the people at the Chinese place are just as happy to take my money as the people at the Korean fried chicken place, or the Thai place, Greek pizza places, Vietnamese pho places, the Indians who own the local Subway, the Mexican places, etc etc etc. I'm happy that so many different people are here and sharing their culture and (especially) food with the masses. I like to partake and learn about it and appreciate it. On the other hand, we have people being beaten to a pulp by swarms of strangers just due to *appreciating* and wearing a hair style that originated with a different group from their own. It's frankly asinine but as long as we are taught to perpetuate a victim/oppressor dynamic this will always happen. I'd hope that you, who found success in America, would be above something like that, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So as long as we keep pushing that narrative, we can expect more of this:
 
Last edited:

KentXie

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
4,152
Reaction score
639
Let's start with me... I'm Jewish, who only happen to be the most hated group of people in the history of Earth for a couple thousand years. There's 15.2 million Jewish people in the world, which is 1.4 million LESS than there were in 1939. (yeah, something happened to Jewish people around that time) On the other hand the population of Asia is about 4.7 BILLION. That means there's over 300 Asian people for every Jewish person worldwide. I think I know a thing or 2 about anti-semitism, especially as a kid. I also have a hard time feeling sorry for a group that in aggregate outnumbers my group 300 to 1, or about 2.5 to 1 in the US. I can empathize with anybody to a certain level, but I'm not going to cry because a deserving person didn't get promoted that day. For some reason it seems like higher-ups in many companies employ a bunch of morons, so maybe they just felt threatened that you were smarter than they were.
And that's what makes you different from me; I don't empathize with a condition. I acknowledge the discrimination and oppression that Jewish people face, alongside every other people that have been discriminated. I don't invalidate their experience. I don't say nor believe in problematic things that bigots have said about the Jewish people such as: "oh they don't face discrimination because they look white" or "oh how can Jewish people be oppressed when they have high income." That's obviously bs; discrimination and oppression is more complex than that.

Everybody is discriminated against to some extent. At my current company (and other companies with government contracts) they get more credit with the government for having a higher percentage of women and minority owned business partners, for example. I know that if I tried to start up something in the same arena I'd have a hard time landing contracts due to that stipulation. For Kent, your prior company sounded like they mistreated Asians which isn't right. However, if your current company is mainly run by Asians, how do they treat any non-Asian working there? Would I have the same opportunities at that same company as, say... you? It sounds like you just found a better spot for your own situation, and I'm glad for it. I just wish you would stop commenting and whining about my posts so much. Accept that you found something better without being stuck in the past.
My current company is not run mainly by Asian but it is run by a management that is much more aware of workplace bias. That being said, if white America promoted more Asians to leadership roles and there are companies mainly run by Asians that discriminate against non-Asian, that should be called out. Again, I don't empathize with a condition like you.

You wish I would stop commenting and whining about your post so much? Then stop using Asians as a way to support an already proven false rhetoric. I will keep calling out it out because without the proper context, others may think this misinformation is true and some of these others may be leaders in companies who will then negatively impact the employees of color who work under them.

But now, let's get back to the rationale of the original argument. I point out Asians in the US in general because on average they earn higher incomes than white people. That doesn't mean that discrimination doesn't exist. What it does mean is that "white supremacy" isn't automatically holding every other group back, otherwise no group would ever have been able to surpass them in America. Also if you want to talk about who's really holding you back, look at for example the ultra-liberal colleges that take less Asians than they should. That's a real, quantifiable discrimination but since it's the left eating their own I guess it's just inconvenient.
Did you even read the first article? Low income Asians who immigrated from the 1970s, including refugees, are still on the bottom rung of the income ladder. The average was pulled up by Asians who immigrated from 1990s onward where they had to prove they came from an educated and/or wealthy background. If you only allow the wealthy Asians to immigrate, unsurprisingly their income average is going to go up.

Lastly, I empathize with you on the marketing degree. I have a few marketing degree friends who went through the same thing and I'm sorry to hear that the experience has been crap (most of them ended up having to change careers).
 
Last edited:

shmessy

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,830
Reaction score
2,583
Let's start with me... I'm Jewish, who only happen to be the most hated group of people in the history of Earth for a couple thousand years. There's 15.2 million Jewish people in the world, which is 1.4 million LESS than there were in 1939. (yeah, something happened to Jewish people around that time) On the other hand the population of Asia is about 4.7 BILLION. That means there's over 300 Asian people for every Jewish person worldwide. I think I know a thing or 2 about anti-semitism, especially as a kid. I also have a hard time feeling sorry for a group that in aggregate outnumbers my group 300 to 1, or about 2.5 to 1 in the US. I can empathize with anybody to a certain level, but I'm not going to cry because a deserving person didn't get promoted that day. For some reason it seems like higher-ups in many companies employ a bunch of morons, so maybe they just felt threatened that you were smarter than they were.

Everybody is discriminated against to some extent. At my current company (and other companies with government contracts) they get more credit with the government for having a higher percentage of women and minority owned business partners, for example. I know that if I tried to start up something in the same arena I'd have a hard time landing contracts due to that stipulation. For Kent, your prior company sounded like they mistreated Asians which isn't right. However, if your current company is mainly run by Asians, how do they treat any non-Asian working there? Would I have the same opportunities at that same company as, say... you? It sounds like you just found a better spot for your own situation, and I'm glad for it. I just wish you would stop commenting and whining about my posts so much. Accept that you found something better without being stuck in the past.

Try having a marketing degree (which is why I needed to go back to grad school) and realizing that the field doesn't even really exist, and 99% of postings are absolute scam jobs. There are thousands upon thousands of people who get suckered into this and it's probably 1000x worse than you have ever experienced in the workplace.

There's a ton of good interviews about this too. I did it for only a couple of days but it has ruined tons of people's lives for months/years.

But now, let's get back to the rationale of the original argument. I point out Asians in the US in general because on average they earn higher incomes than white people. That doesn't mean that discrimination doesn't exist. What it does mean is that "white supremacy" isn't automatically holding every other group back, otherwise no group would ever have been able to surpass them in America. Also if you want to talk about who's really holding you back, look at for example the ultra-liberal colleges that take less Asians than they should. That's a real, quantifiable discrimination but since it's the left eating their own I guess it's just inconvenient.

I will leave you with Andrew Yang's podcast, called "Forward with Andrew Yang" which is based on him attempting to start a new political party. While I vehemently disagree with about 25-30% of his platform, I find him level-headed and focused on issues that actually matter to greater amounts of people. I strongly respect him and at least listen to his ideas, even if I don't align with him completely. That's how this country was supposed to work. That's how the "melting pot" is supposed to work. If he just wanted to say he was a victim I wouldn't be interested, but he has real ideas and doesn't attempt to play one group off of another. I'm not sure I would want him as president (although most of his ideas are totally reasonable, or at least defended well) but I could see him succeeding as a Senator, and if his party helps break our 2-party mold all the better.

I feel like that's how the American Melting Pot is supposed to work; we get good ideas from all over the spectrum and then incorporate the best of them into our own lives and to help shape the country going forward. Dirty words like "cultural appropriation" should be rebranded as cultural appreciation. When I go out to eat at all the various restaurants around here, the people at the Chinese place are just as happy to take my money as the people at the Korean fried chicken place, or the Thai place, Greek pizza places, Vietnamese pho places, the Indians who own the local Subway, the Mexican places, etc etc etc. I'm happy that so many different people are here and sharing their culture and (especially) food with the masses. I like to partake and learn about it and appreciate it. On the other hand, we have people being beaten to a pulp by swarms of strangers just due to *appreciating* and wearing a hair style that originated with a different group from their own. It's frankly asinine but as long as we are taught to perpetuate a victim/oppressor dynamic this will always happen. I'd hope that you, who found success in America, would be above something like that, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So as long as we keep pushing that narrative, we can expect more of this:
Ugh. It's always the short Jews who have to ruin it for the rest of us n the tribe.
 
Last edited:

DZH22

Superstar
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
23,667
You wish I would stop commenting and whining about your post so much? Then stop using Asians as a way to support an already proven false rhetoric. I will keep calling out it out because without the proper context, others may think this misinformation is true and some of these others may be leaders in companies who will then negatively impact the employees of color who work under them.
Here's the average pay by race in the US. Asians win, by a lot. Doesn't mean that discrimination doesn't exist or that every Asian automatically does well for themselves. You bring me your own personal set of anecdotes, which is all well and good, but this is comparing 300 million (or 157 million if we're just using people currently employed) different sets of "anecdotes" for aggregate data.

Everybody is discriminated against. You play the hand you are dealt. Try scrolling through some dating sites and see how many women say something like "no guys under 5'10"! I can empathize in the sense that I get certain people have to work harder to accomplish certain activities. But I also recognize that every single person is dealing with their own personal issues and also is most singularly responsible for how their own lives turn out.

On the other hand, we have people like you who insist on keeping us divided. If everybody is a victim, then nobody is a victim, just like if everybody is a racist then it loses all meaning too. This is the first podcast I listened to from Andrew Yang, called Woke Racism. It was eye opening, and important to push back on the crazy agenda perpetuated by extremists. I believe that you are one of those extremists based on your own rhetoric.

This one is also excellent. It's called "Why boys are failing" and is even more eye opening than the first link. It's funny that many people considered "privileged" are now doing amongst the worst in society. What's less funny is that we're not even really allowed to bring it up, which is why this podcast is so refreshing.

Personally I think we should treat everybody equally, based on merit as much as we can. Obviously part of the problem is how merit is measured. Obviously there is also some discrimination that will happen, no matter how hard we try to get it out of society. As an individual you can either rise above that (and above whatever other obstacles are in your way) or you can let it define you. You seem to prefer the latter, which is just a little bit sad.

I leave you with one of the all-time motivational speeches. It applies to every single person on earth. I urge the rest of you to do what you can to persevere, and take this speech to heart instead of allowing somebody like KentXie to convince you that you are a victim and that you should consider your life to be hopeless.
"But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that!"

Here's the same speech, only within the fuller 3 minute scene instead of just the 1 minute "meat and potatoes" of the speech. Listen to (either one) on repeat until the message is totally hammered in. No matter who you are or where you are in your own journey, this applies to you.
 
Last edited:

Charlie_mta

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
3,131
Reaction score
3,033
I tend to agree with DZH22 on this discussion. Everyone has their handicaps and challenges, not just certain minorities. Yes, there has historically been racism against Blacks in this country, a really horrible long list of crap going on for hundreds of years, but let's try to move beyond that, and stop labeling Blacks as victims. It just seems to perpetuate a kind of inferiority complex among some Blacks. You become what you think you are,

I had a lot of really extreme challenges, growing up poor, no guidance at all when I was a teen on how to navigate through the insane 1960s with the Vietnam War going on, the draft, etc. I had to figure it all by myself, and I did pretty well with a Masters degree and an engineering career. No one ever told me, or even suggested, that I should be an engineer, I had to figure all that out by myself. My point is, a person can become something good no matter what kind of cards they've been dealt. That may sound trite and insensitive, but it's true.
 

DZH22

Superstar
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
23,667
My point is, a person can become something good no matter what kind of cards they've been dealt. That may sound trite and insensitive, but it's true.
IMO this encapsulates the true spirit of America as the "land of opportunity" in that everybody has a shot at finding success on their own terms. It isn't necessarily easy, and that is true for the vast majority of people. But it's there for the taking if you choose to pursue it and take the hits to get where you want to go.

I'm going to just "mic drop" this video going forward. I'm otherwise done with this thread (unless there's another topic to discuss within it). If anybody quotes me to continue this discussion, they will be met with this.
 

tysmith95

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
2,804
Reaction score
392
Ahh the internet, where a discussion about zoning goes down a rabbit hole of whether Jewish people or Asians endure more discrimination in America.
 

DZH22

Superstar
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
23,667
Ahh the internet, where a discussion about zoning goes down a rabbit hole of whether Jewish people or Asians endure more discrimination in America.
The Jewish user isn't the one asking for the pity party, or using identity as an excuse to define their failures. The video below applies to you too (and, like I said, 100% of humanity, and even 100% of life in general). Frankly, this speech was important in my own journey to help me overcome some of my earlier failures and achieve a level of success that was far from a given.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top