Portland - Civic Center

Could not agree more with Dr. Strangehat; brown paneling/siding has to go. I imagine this will take place when a corporate sponsor is named. In any event Im sure the renovation will be beautiful when complete and Portland as well as Maine will have a 21st century facility to be proud of.
A healthy and prosperous 2014 to the entire ArchBoston community !
 
As I get older my sense of color may be weakening but the paneling looks more black than brown in the photos and in person. They are replacing numerous sections due to construction requirements and are sticking with the same color theme which means we will have to live with it. I personally like the brownish/blackish paneling and am thankful that it was not left as a stark concrete slab all the way to the roofline when the arena was originally built.

My overall opinion of the renovations to this point are positive and the additions blend fairly well visually. I also think the arena looks more impressive in it's overall size and scope especially along Spring Street and I bet that the southeast corner will look great when lit up at night. Am looking forward to a future open house like the city did with the new jetport terminal so I can actually check out the improvements on the inside which is a little more important to me than the exterior. The reupholstered burgundy seats are still covered in plastic!
 
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Looks like I will soon stop spamming the forum with Civic Center photos. Spring Street and Center Street are back open, so the remaining work will be on the interior. From an exterior perspective, I am hoping the plan of removing Spring Street's concrete median is still a go. I'll also mention that I like the addition of the same dark green light posts that are on Congress Street.

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Bike parking!

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I still don't get those corner luxury suites that have those HUGE concrete supports right smack in the middle of the sight lines. Even the railing angles are messed up. If you haven't seen these yet.......you'll know what I mean when you see them.
 
So what's the plan now for Spring Street? Seems hard to create a nice urban experience and streetwall there... isn't everything across from the Civic Center actually on a different grade and therefore set back away from the street?
 
mainejeff said:
I still don't get those corner luxury suites that have those HUGE concrete supports right smack in the middle of the sight lines. Even the railing angles are messed up. If you haven't seen these yet.......you'll know what I mean when you see them.
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Nobody in luxury boxes ever watches the game anyway, especially if the box is corporate-owned. I was lucky enough to attend a few games in the luxury box at the TD Garden for my old employer, and I was usually the only one ever watching the game intently. Everyone else was schmoozing, networking and/or "talking shop".
 
Got a sneak preview of the Civic Center last night and I was pleased with renovations. Much attention was given to to color, paint and other visual improvements, no longer looks like a drab concrete/cinder block arena. The sky boxes are very unique in appearance and will provide a neat vantage point for concerts in particular. The visual sight lines will not be a big issue due to the location of the corner columns, available seating in the suites is flexible and not fixed. The main entrances on the west end by the garage are spacious and will provide a much more comfortable area for event goers to mingle prior to entering the arena portion. Maroon seating works well with the new interior color scheme and is very similar to Bangor's attractive new building.

In addition, Hancock Lumber donated new flooring for basketball type events which was much needed and long overdue. So it is not a new arena as many of us would have preferred, but the architects and design team made the most of what we have. The new telescopic seating on the east end blends well and will allow the stage to be moved further back and will increase concert capacity to an additional 500 seats. Now that the Pirates are committed long term, the next step will be securing naming rights which I think will be accomplished in the near future.

And mainejeff, with all due respect, is there anything new in Portland that you approve of? After reviewing a majority of your previous posts, most take a negative slant and are riddled with criticism which makes you come off as pro Bangor and anti Portland. Your opinions are appreciated but surely you can find something positive with a few of Portland's ongoing or proposed projects/developments.
 
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Portlander said:
Got a sneak preview of the Civic Center last night and I was pleased with renovations. Much attention was given to to color, paint and other visual improvements, no longer looks like a drab concrete/cinder block arena. The sky boxes are very unique in appearance and will provide a neat vantage point for concerts in particular. The visual sight lines will not be a big issue due to the location of the corner columns, available seating in the suites is flexible and not fixed. The main entrances on the west end by the garage are spacious and will provide a much comfortable area for event goers to mingle prior to entering the arena portion. Maroon seating works well with the new interior color scheme is very similar to Bangor's attractive new building.

In addition, Hancock Lumber donated new flooring for basketball type events which was much needed and long overdue. So it is not a new arena as many of us would have preferred, but the architects and design team made the most of what we have. The new telescopic seating on the east end blends well and will allow the stage to be moved further back and will increase concert capacity to an additional 500 seats. Now that the Pirates are committed long term, the next step will be securing naming rights which I think will be accomplished in the near future.

And mainejeff, with all due respect, is there anything new in Portland that you approve of? After reviewing a majority of your previous posts, most take a negative slant and are riddled with criticism which makes you come off as pro Bangor and anti Portland. Your opinions are appreciated but surely you can find something positive with a few of Portland's ongoing or proposed projects/developments.
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did you check out the 3rd floor suite and see how the beem going threw it looks. is someone gonna bang there head on it.I noticed in the pics they put some rails on the stairs.does the escalator only go in one direction or both
 
Yes you are right about the grade change and the inherent difficulties that presents. The Portland Society for Architecture held a charrette or two on Spring Street and I think the City had some consulting work done for a new streetscape, but major change in urban design and build out is unlikely without major reinvestment in the overall infrastructure.
 
Portlander said:
Got a sneak preview of the Civic Center last night and I was pleased with renovations. Much attention was given to to color, paint and other visual improvements, no longer looks like a drab concrete/cinder block arena. The sky boxes are very unique in appearance and will provide a neat vantage point for concerts in particular. The visual sight lines will not be a big issue due to the location of the corner columns, available seating in the suites is flexible and not fixed. The main entrances on the west end by the garage are spacious and will provide a much more comfortable area for event goers to mingle prior to entering the arena portion. Maroon seating works well with the new interior color scheme and is very similar to Bangor's attractive new building.

In addition, Hancock Lumber donated new flooring for basketball type events which was much needed and long overdue. So it is not a new arena as many of us would have preferred, but the architects and design team made the most of what we have. The new telescopic seating on the east end blends well and will allow the stage to be moved further back and will increase concert capacity to an additional 500 seats. Now that the Pirates are committed long term, the next step will be securing naming rights which I think will be accomplished in the near future.

And mainejeff, with all due respect, is there anything new in Portland that you approve of? After reviewing a majority of your previous posts, most take a negative slant and are riddled with criticism which makes you come off as pro Bangor and anti Portland. Your opinions are appreciated but surely you can find something positive with a few of Portland's ongoing or proposed projects/developments.
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Actually, I really don't like much of the new stuff in Portland. I like one of the new hotels in the Old Port (can't remember which one). I also have high hopes for Thompson Point. Much of the new stuff is just plain bland, ugly, or cheap looking.......or in some cases.....all 3.

Bangor is the pits.....but their new stuff is decent. I really don't care much for the people in either town as one seems a little too snobby and the other a little too trashy. I'll let you guess which one is which.
 
mainejeff said:
Actually, I really don't like much of the new stuff in Portland. I like one of the new hotels in the Old Port (can't remember which one). I also have high hopes for Thompson Point. Much of the new stuff is just plain bland, ugly, or cheap looking.......or in some cases.....all 3.

Bangor is the pits.....but their new stuff is decent. I really don't care much for the people in either town as one seems a little too snobby and the other a little too trashy. I'll let you guess which one is which.
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MaineJeff may be referring to the fact that most of the buildings sort of look the same, which is true but a product of the reality of development more than lack of architectural genius or developer vision. A lot of the materials are made in advance, probably in bulk, based on standardized manufacturing processes. That's why the windows in the first floor retail spots of Maine Med's relatively new parking garage on Congress Street look the exact same as those across town at the Ocean Gateway garage -- that's probably also why Bay House and the Bayside Village student housing complex, as well as Chestnut Street lofts, all sort of looks the same. That being said, I am very pleased to see Portland developing as much as it is. Materials selections aside, the infill is a great thing for the community. This style of development will simply represent its era of construction just like any other. The city is a layer of different eras of construction materials and architecture, and the present one is one of many (all of which similarly look the same, and probably were also criticized...recall, it was not that long ago that most people longed for something, anything, other than squat brick buildings...).
 
Patrick said:
MaineJeff may be referring to the fact that most of the buildings sort of look the same, which is true but a product of the reality of development more than lack of architectural genius or developer vision. A lot of the materials are made in advance, probably in bulk, based on standardized manufacturing processes. That's why the windows in the first floor retail spots of Maine Med's relatively new parking garage on Congress Street look the exact same as those across town at the Ocean Gateway garage -- that's probably also why Bay House and the Bayside Village student housing complex, as well as Chestnut Street lofts, all sort of looks the same. That being said, I am very pleased to see Portland developing as much as it is. Materials selections aside, the infill is a great thing for the community. This style of development will simply represent its era of construction just like any other. The city is a layer of different eras of construction materials and architecture, and the present one is one of many (all of which similarly look the same, and probably were also criticized...recall, it was not that long ago that most people longed for something, anything, other than squat brick buildings...).
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Agreed with your synopsis.......but you only need to look to other New England cities such as Portsmouth, Lowell and Providence to see much better looking new architecture. I get the feeling that developers are just taking advantage of Portland's newfound popularity and city leaders are happy to oblige regardless of how anything looks (the obvious citywide obsession with height excluded). They need to stop worrying about height and start worrying how these damn things look!
 
mainejeff said:
Agreed with your synopsis.......but you only need to look to other New England cities such as Portsmouth, Lowell and Providence to see much better looking new architecture. I get the feeling that developers are just taking advantage of Portland's newfound popularity and city leaders are happy to oblige regardless of how anything looks (the obvious citywide obsession with height excluded). They need to stop worrying about height and start worrying how these damn things look!
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I work about 20 minutes north of Portsmouth, on the New Hampshire border across from Somersworth-Dover-Rochester. From my personal perspective, I would concur that there are plenty of new buildings in Portsmouth that look much better -- a prime example being one which not too long ago replaced a gas station on Congress Street but looks like it's been there a hundred years. There are also a few others that look more or less appropriate compared to other structures.

That being said, I think Portland and Portsmouth are fundamentally different places. Portsmouth is a quaint boutique town for the wealthy (although its poverty levels are in line with other less glamorous cities, like Rochester), and Portland is not. Granted, Portland has the Old Port, which is almost exactly the same as a place like Market Street in Portsmouth, but that's not its defining element. Portland is a city of contrasts, much like any other major (much larger) city. It has always been a center of the State's most dynamic and "different" architecture. Much of it will never be on par with the great architecture of the past, and that's OK, because Portland would be great without any new development. It will just be busier and therefore (in my opinion) better with it.

Again, I don't disagree that other cities are getting the architecture better, but I do disagree that its a product of city officials being overly willing to accept any and everything due to Portland's newfound status. I think newfound status is debatable, too. Portland has been a booming small city off and on for hundreds of years. The period of 2004-2007 saw a period of interest in development just as intense as the one we are seeing now as did the 1980s.

Anyway, I don't think you're wrong, but I think there's more to it than a bunch of naive city officials stumbling over themselves due to all of the attention the city is getting by slick developers. I think Portland is a city that will draw both the good and the bad from developers, and that ultimate "mix" of stuff is what makes it different from the pretty stage set that Portsmouth has become. It's a real, working city which some people forget due to the charm of the Old Port. In many ways, Portland is the perfect blend of Manchester (commercial but rough around the edges in nearly every way) and Portsmouth (cute but not enough actual substance).
 
We're wandering way, way, waaaay down the hill from the Civic Center in this thread, but..

mainejeff said:
Agreed with your synopsis.......but you only need to look to other New England cities such as Portsmouth, Lowell and Providence to see much better looking new architecture. I get the feeling that developers are just taking advantage of Portland's newfound popularity and city leaders are happy to oblige regardless of how anything looks (the obvious citywide obsession with height excluded). They need to stop worrying about height and start worrying how these damn things look!
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I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm a libertarian at heart (although not a crazy one), and while I can understand and support regulation based on safety and protection of the infrastructure (you can't feed a 200-unit building with 1 3" water main), I strongly believe that purely aesthetic "look and feel" concerns should be outside the regulatory purview. The building, after all, is an expression of some shared vision of the architect and developer, and the city is ultimately the chaotic jumble of these individual pieces accumulated over time like a multi-generational set of Lego's. The government and the NIMBY's shouldn't have any say over the pure looks; the board members might make suggestions, but they shouldn't have the ability to deny a project because they don't like the color, or even because it's covered in the crappy Zbrick that's on the Portland Harbor Hotel.

(Just an aside: I have been in one city in my life where local regulations actually require that all new buildings be finished in the same local limestone. I will admit, it's a really cool effect. But Portland's not Jerusalem*.)

The Urban Renewer in me has looked at the Pleasant St. neighborhood below Spring in the past, and thought that it would make a great place for a convention center, with a grade-separated (tunnel or skywalk) connection to the Civic Center. Keep the old school and the other buildings on Center, possibly keep the Calderwood bakery building, and essentially level everything in between to build a multi-story convention center with added exhibit hall space and breakout rooms. (I debated including this paragraph, but ultimately did because it's the only one in this whole post that has anything to do with the CCCC.)

The period of 2004-2007 saw a period of interest in development just as intense as the one we are seeing now as did the 1980s.
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The only real development I recall from that period were the few places on Marginal Way. OTOH, if Midtown and Forefront happen, I'd place the current era on a par with the mid-80's as you mentioned. That period, roughly between the 1984 National Governor's Conference and the 1987 stock market crash, gave us:
  • One and Two Portland Square (those parking lots are the spaces for 3 and 4)
  • One City Center, Two City Center, and the City Center pedestrian mall that replaced upper Middle St.
  • the Portland Pier and Chandler's Wharf condos
  • 10 Moulton St. (building an actual new building in the Old Port was controversial at the time)
  • the MEMIC building that's also near Portland Square
  • the Regency Hotel
  • Several suburban office parks including Southborough and much of what is now on Foden Road
  • Sable Oaks and its Marriott
  • the Maine Mall expansion (not urban, but it still doubled the size of the mall)
  • the failed proposals for Eastern Point and Lincoln Square

Many of those projects were fueled by two things: enthusiastic lending practices at Maine Savings Bank and several others, and a business plan at UNUM to separate out their profit centers, which meant that virtually every new office building was able to lease them a bunch of space before ground was broken. Maine Savings had its doors locked by the FDIC one afternoon for its troubles, as did all the S&L's, and Unum eventually was eaten by Provident. Demand for Class A office space downtown still hasn't caught up to what it was then, I don't believe (I certainly don't see many large-scale office projects on the PB docket).
 
markhb said:
We're wandering way, way, waaaay down the hill from the Civic Center in this thread, but..


I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm a libertarian at heart (although not a crazy one), and while I can understand and support regulation based on safety and protection of the infrastructure (you can't feed a 200-unit building with 1 3" water main), I strongly believe that purely aesthetic "look and feel" concerns should be outside the regulatory purview. The building, after all, is an expression of some shared vision of the architect and developer, and the city is ultimately the chaotic jumble of these individual pieces accumulated over time like a multi-generational set of Lego's. The government and the NIMBY's shouldn't have any say over the pure looks; the board members might make suggestions, but they shouldn't have the ability to deny a project because they don't like the color, or even because it's covered in the crappy Zbrick that's on the Portland Harbor Hotel.

(Just an aside: I have been in one city in my life where local regulations actually require that all new buildings be finished in the same local limestone. I will admit, it's a really cool effect. But Portland's not Jerusalem*.)

The Urban Renewer in me has looked at the Pleasant St. neighborhood below Spring in the past, and thought that it would make a great place for a convention center, with a grade-separated (tunnel or skywalk) connection to the Civic Center. Keep the old school and the other buildings on Center, possibly keep the Calderwood bakery building, and essentially level everything in between to build a multi-story convention center with added exhibit hall space and breakout rooms. (I debated including this paragraph, but ultimately did because it's the only one in this whole post that has anything to do with the CCCC.)


The only real development I recall from that period were the few places on Marginal Way. OTOH, if Midtown and Forefront happen, I'd place the current era on a par with the mid-80's as you mentioned. That period, roughly between the 1984 National Governor's Conference and the 1987 stock market crash, gave us:
  • One and Two Portland Square (those parking lots are the spaces for 3 and 4)
  • One City Center, Two City Center, and the City Center pedestrian mall that replaced upper Middle St.
  • the Portland Pier and Chandler's Wharf condos
  • 10 Moulton St. (building an actual new building in the Old Port was controversial at the time)
  • the MEMIC building that's also near Portland Square
  • the Regency Hotel
  • Several suburban office parks including Southborough and much of what is now on Foden Road
  • Sable Oaks and its Marriott
  • the Maine Mall expansion (not urban, but it still doubled the size of the mall)
  • the failed proposals for Eastern Point and Lincoln Square

Many of those projects were fueled by two things: enthusiastic lending practices at Maine Savings Bank and several others, and a business plan at UNUM to separate out their profit centers, which meant that virtually every new office building was able to lease them a bunch of space before ground was broken. Maine Savings had its doors locked by the FDIC one afternoon for its troubles, as did all the S&L's, and Unum eventually was eaten by Provident. Demand for Class A office space downtown still hasn't caught up to what it was then, I don't believe (I certainly don't see many large-scale office projects on the PB docket).
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I agree regarding the regulatory purview of municipalities insofar as it relates to pure aesthetics. Regulation is permissible only for proper police power reasons (health safety and the ever so clear "welfare"). But some design regulations have direct impact on public health. Say building distance from the street for example, which impacts walkability. But that's different from what you were talking about (color etc).

Regarding 04-07, you are right more actually happened in the 1980s but more was planned in the 04-07 period. It just didn't happen because of the economic meltdown. Village at ocean gate was originally four buildings between 6, 7, 9 and 11 stories if I recall. The watermark was a 6 story condo proposal with 250 units. Intermed at 10 stories. Mercy hospital's fore rover campus. The proposed 17 story office tower on the top of the old port. And 10 story hotel. And new civic center. The Maine med addition and new parking garage. 12 story water view condos. Two 9-story condos on the Falmouth line. Maine health's proposal for a 9-story office building and garage along with two other 7-story structures in bayside. Fox tower at the corner of Franklin and somerset. The 10-story Westin hotel and condominiums on fore street. The custom house wharf office building. The ocean gateway terminal. The ocean gateway garage. Hundreds of proposed units off of warren avenue. The infill lofts on congress street. Whole foods. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. The press herald called it the biggest building boom in over a century. Then the recession came in. Now we are picking up where we left off.
 
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