Portland - Civic Center

[grittys457]

Sounds pretty logical

Civic Center building panel reconfigures plan for suites

PORTLAND — The committee overseeing the renovation of the Cumberland County Civic Center is looking at building a bank of suites on the building's west end to make them more attractive for leasing during concerts.

The new plan approved at a meeting this morning would retain four ice-level "bunker suites" and two suites on the concourse level on the west end, while eliminating two suites on the concourse level at the east end.

The proposal, which will be reviewed by consultants analyzing the marketability of premium seating for the arena, also calls for two suites on an intermediate level on the west end and two "sky level" suites on the west end.

Set up for concerts, the west end suites would face the stage, while the east end suites would be behind the stage.

The committee rejected a proposal for four top-level "sky club" suites connected by walkways ringing the arena, which would have cost $2.5 million.

Conventions, Sports & Leisue, a consulting firm, said four sky level suites, along with 260 sky club seats on the walkways connecting the suites, are too much for the market, based on the region's demographics and the number of companies that would likely be interested in buying suites. The consultant's also said that most premium seating in the renovated arena would recoup the cost within two years, but it would take nine years to recoup the cost of the sky club-level seats.

The committee is scheduled to meet again in two weeks to complete the planning process and allow architects to move ahead with final drawings for the $33 million renovation.

 

[portlandneedsnewarena]

Sounds pretty logical

Civic Center building panel reconfigures plan for suites

PORTLAND — The committee overseeing the renovation of the Cumberland County Civic Center is looking at building a bank of suites on the building's west end to make them more attractive for leasing during concerts.

The new plan approved at a meeting this morning would retain four ice-level "bunker suites" and two suites on the concourse level on the west end, while eliminating two suites on the concourse level at the east end.

The proposal, which will be reviewed by consultants analyzing the marketability of premium seating for the arena, also calls for two suites on an intermediate level on the west end and two "sky level" suites on the west end.

Set up for concerts, the west end suites would face the stage, while the east end suites would be behind the stage.

The committee rejected a proposal for four top-level "sky club" suites connected by walkways ringing the arena, which would have cost $2.5 million.

Conventions, Sports & Leisue, a consulting firm, said four sky level suites, along with 260 sky club seats on the walkways connecting the suites, are too much for the market, based on the region's demographics and the number of companies that would likely be interested in buying suites. The consultant's also said that most premium seating in the renovated arena would recoup the cost within two years, but it would take nine years to recoup the cost of the sky club-level seats.

The committee is scheduled to meet again in two weeks to complete the planning process and allow architects to move ahead with final drawings for the $33 million renovation.

Another 2 weeks and another meeting and then final drawings. It seams like the board is dragging this process out. Hopefully all the planning will be worth it.
I am told that Cianbro has been offered some fairly substantial incentive bonuses for early completion of each stage of the project.
I haven't been to a concert at the Civic Center for years but all of the years I attended concerts at the CCCC the concert stage was on the West End of the Arena. Apparently the stage is now going to be on the East End with the majority of the Suites being on the West End.

 

[Portlander]

Stage set up for concerts have always been on the east end near the loading dock and that will not change. Only exception was for half arena and center stage (in the round) show configurations which put the stage in the center.

 

[Seanflynn78]

There is an article in today's press herald regarding the sky suites.
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Civic-Center-building-panel-reconfigures-plan-for-suites.html

Sounds like they are a no go. I have a hard time believing renovating the current arena is a long term fix. Hopefully someone will have (private investor or group) the money and build a state of the art arena in downtown Portland in the next 20 years. I certainly don't see the local government pitching in with the state of our current economy.

 

[Portlander]

The four "sky clubs" suites are a no go but they were not part of the original plans for premium seating. Those suites were on the Civic Center's wish list only along with other options such as new seating instead of refurbished seats. If this proposal receives final approval in it's present form, there will be 10 new suites in various locations throughout the building which is 10 more than the arena currently has.

 

[Portlander]

The parking lot adjacent to Brian Boru is currently being prepared as the staging area for all of the contractors involved in the renovation of the Civic Center. The fencing is up and the construction trailers will start arriving in the coming days. I love progress even if it's only baby steps initially!

 

[PortlandArch]

With the one exception of the Spring/Center corner (fantastic), totally unimpressed. In fact, some of the later renderings are so bad as to totally negate the positive impact of the corner. This is really terrible. All expense gobbled up by the interior, which is understandable (expensive to rehab older buildings), but then that raises the question of whether enough money was appropriated by voters. Answer seems to be a resounding NO. Then again, the whole process was absurd. This is what occurs if you turn down sensible alternatives (Elizabeth Noyce in Bayside = free land + $20 million). Do we really want this? The civic center will flourish, the Gorham Corner, Studio District, Artist District will not (at least not because of this). Maybe this WOULD be better off outside of Portland, if this is all they can get.

 

[grittys457]

I actually don't mind it except for the corner
Across from bingas where the money ran out

Glass corner is sweet

 

[FrankLloydMike]

With the one exception of the Spring/Center corner (fantastic), totally unimpressed. In fact, some of the later renderings are so bad as to totally negate the positive impact of the corner. This is really terrible. All expense gobbled up by the interior, which is understandable (expensive to rehab older buildings), but then that raises the question of whether enough money was appropriated by voters. Answer seems to be a resounding NO. Then again, the whole process was absurd. This is what occurs if you turn down sensible alternatives (Elizabeth Noyce in Bayside = free land + $20 million). Do we really want this? The civic center will flourish, the Gorham Corner, Studio District, Artist District will not (at least not because of this). Maybe this WOULD be better off outside of Portland, if this is all they can get.

I agree; it's not great. Even the corner is kind of clumsy. I think something graceful and light would be a nice counterpoint to the old, heavy arena. Still, at least it's built up to the road unlike the Verizon in Manchester.

At any rate, I'm not sure how jazzing up the exterior would influence whether or not the surrounding districts flourish. What is important here, more than the architecture or even the massing (which is okay here, since it fills the block) is the proximity to these districts, and the draw that the arena will continue to be. I don't think street-facing retail would work or fit here, and really with a decent number of empty storefronts along Congress, I don't think adding more retail here would be helpful. But keeping the arena near the shops, restaurants and bars of the Arts District and other nearby neighborhoods, should give them a boost on event nights.

I agree that it might have made more sense to build a new arena in Bayside to spur development there, but what would be done with the current arena then? Would it just become another empty lot? And would that negatively impact businesses near the CCCC? I don't know the answer to any of those.

Ideally, I think a new arena would make the most sense, and these renderings aren't very inspiring, but I don't think it will negatively impact the nearby districts and businesses.

 

[Portlander]

At last count there are only three empty storefronts on Congress Street from Longfellow Square to City Hall. This does not include ongoing renovations to the Schwartz Building.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

At last count there are only three empty storefronts on Congress Street from Longfellow Square to City Hall. This does not include ongoing renovations to the Schwartz Building.

Fair enough. I stayed at the St. John Inn on my last visit in April, and walked from there into town a couple times. I seem to recall several--not a ton or an unusual amount-empty storefronts along the way. I could very easily be mistaken though. I didn't mean to say that Portland isn't thriving, just that I don't think the Civic Center site makes much sense for retail. That's especially true if there are multiple empty storefronts along Congress, but even if there are not, I can't see that site with its minimal (comparatively) foot traffic being attractive to retailers. And I think new retail would make much more sense in the burgeoning India Street area, as well as in Bayside, which seems poised to come into its own. The current Civic Center is only a block from Congress--whether its ugly or not, I think it's good for retail and restaurants nearby. Moving to Bayside may have spurred development there, but at least its not moving to an isolated spot like where the new basketball arena is being built. I'd love to see a more inspired design for renovating the CCCC, but I think keeping it where it is isn't a bad move.

 

[Patrick]

Fair enough. I stayed at the St. John Inn on my last visit in April, and walked from there into town a couple times. I seem to recall several--not a ton or an unusual amount-empty storefronts along the way. I could very easily be mistaken though. I didn't mean to say that Portland isn't thriving, just that I don't think the Civic Center site makes much sense for retail. That's especially true if there are multiple empty storefronts along Congress, but even if there are not, I can't see that site with its minimal (comparatively) foot traffic being attractive to retailers. And I think new retail would make much more sense in the burgeoning India Street area, as well as in Bayside, which seems poised to come into its own. The current Civic Center is only a block from Congress--whether its ugly or not, I think it's good for retail and restaurants nearby. Moving to Bayside may have spurred development there, but at least its not moving to an isolated spot like where the new basketball arena is being built. I'd love to see a more inspired design for renovating the CCCC, but I think keeping it where it is isn't a bad move.

I think the point here is not that the civic center will hurt the surrounding neighborhoods but at least will not help them connect to create an integrated whole. It already acts as a barrier itself along Spring Street, and one of the most attractive streets in Portland (Free) has become a backwater in some senses with the backside of the CCCC and some surface parking. This won't help. I also don't think retail would work here, regardless of Congress Street but especially in a recession (though Congress is booming, perhaps more than the Old Port in some ways...consider that 3 empty storefronts is probably 1-2% vacancy, maybe less....also, you were walking from the edge of downtown, which most people exclude in their mental image of the street); however, retail or not, this needs more permeability. Greater emphasis on fenestration would help or at the very least lighter color materials. The earlier renderings showed a framed-in overhang on the back side, with function space there. No retail, still above street, but useable space. Not it is just an overhang again. The CCCC was built at the same time the Old Port was reinvigorating itself (and Maine) and has done that job quite well. Now a new area could benefit from it. Bayside is where it should go, but that discussion has already occurred.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

I think the point here is not that the civic center will hurt the surrounding neighborhoods but at least will not help them connect to create an integrated whole. It already acts as a barrier itself along Spring Street, and one of the most attractive streets in Portland (Free) has become a backwater in some senses with the backside of the CCCC and some surface parking. This won't help. I also don't think retail would work here, regardless of Congress Street but especially in a recession (though Congress is booming, perhaps more than the Old Port in some ways...consider that 3 empty storefronts is probably 1-2% vacancy, maybe less....also, you were walking from the edge of downtown, which most people exclude in their mental image of the street); however, retail or not, this needs more permeability. Greater emphasis on fenestration would help or at the very least lighter color materials. The earlier renderings showed a framed-in overhang on the back side, with function space there. No retail, still above street, but useable space. Not it is just an overhang again. The CCCC was built at the same time the Old Port was reinvigorating itself (and Maine) and has done that job quite well. Now a new area could benefit from it. Bayside is where it should go, but that discussion has already occurred.

That all makes sense, and I agree. Looking at the map, I think the empty storefronts I was seeing--which still weren't overwhelming by any means--were definitely on the western edge of town. One of the places that comes to mind specifically was the Bramhall Pub, but even that wasn't a traditional storefront.

Still, I like the massing and location of the CCCC over the Verizon, for instance. It's far from perfect, but it takes up most of the block, it has a decent amount of ground-floor glazing as it is, it feels reasonably human-scaled (for an arena), and it doesn't take up a prominent spot with grassy setbacks or a building that is used on occasionally, like the Verizon does.

I love Free Street, but it seems like block between Oak and Center Streets--and even a good way into the block east of that--feels more like the back alley of Congress than the charming street that exists at either end. I'm far from against working to improve areas like that, but since the arena is staying as you said, I'd rather see a focus on transforming the parking lots and garages along the street. The CCCC renovation could be much nicer, but even if it stays as is, I don't think many people would notice it if it was surrounded by buildings (with some street presence) rather than parking lots and back entrances. At the end of the day, while I'd prefer a more attractive design, I think it's the activity there that will attract developers more than the facade of the civic center.

 

[mainejeff]

The seating capacity for the CCCC is going to be very similar to the new Cross Center (arena) in Bangor. Some tours might be willing to play both facilities, but if choosing only 1.......Bangor's modern amenities and recent track record of summer concerts on the waterfront may give it a leg up in the battle to attract tours that may only make 1 stop in the state.

 

[Portlander]

The Cross Insurance Center will have 1000-1200 fewer seats than the CCCC depending on the event configuration. In addition to being two hours further north and no ice making capability, some promoters may still choose Bangor over Portland for a short period until the Civic Center's renovations are completed and the CIC's newness wears off. The concert business is all about potential revenue and 1000 + seats makes a huge difference financially along with the Greater Portland's significantly larger population base which helps sell the necessary tickets to make a show successful.

 

[mainejeff]

The Cross Insurance Center will have 1000-1200 fewer seats than the CCCC depending on the event configuration. In addition to being two hours further north and no ice making capability, some promoters may still choose Bangor over Portland for a short period until the Civic Center's renovations are completed and the CIC's newness wears off. The concert business is all about potential revenue and 1000 + seats makes a huge difference financially along with the Greater Portland's significantly larger population base which helps sell the necessary tickets to make a show successful.

You make good points. It will be interesting to see what the final capacity of both facilities will actually be for concert configurations. Obviously, Bangor conceded ice to Portland......that one is not even up for debate. I don't think that being 2 hours North of Portland really matters as Bangor is actually located midpoint between venues to the South (Portland/Manchester/Lowell) and venues to the North (Moncton/Fredericton/St. John/Halifax.

 

[Portlander]

Not sure, but Bangor's new arena may have passed on ice due to the close proximity of Alfond Arena. And for the record, I am proud of Bangor's efforts to finally build a new building to replace the Bangor Auditorium and I think it's seating capacity fits the market perfectly. Portland could use an additional 1500-2000 seats in my opinion but we have to make the most of what we have.

 

[Corey]

This is from the Civic Center's Facebook page, I don't remember seeing this rendering online before. I assume this is on the Spring and Center Street corner of the building. Kind of looks like those support beams are blocking the view from these suites though:

 

[mainejeff]

This is from the Civic Center's Facebook page, I don't remember seeing this rendering online before. I assume this is on the Spring and Center Street corner of the building. Kind of looks like those support beams are blocking the view from these suites though:

Yeah.......those suites are bizarre. I don't think that I've ever seen anything quite like that.

 

[Portlander]

That view is from the Free/Oak Street corner. All of the upper level suites will be located on the west end of the arena due to the stage location to the east. The trustees decided not to spend the additional money by putting upper level suites behind the stage because they would have little or no impact during concerts. There will be two lower premium seating areas on the east end corners for hockey/basketball configurations.