Portland, ME - New Construction Continued

[Patrick]

Planners: City rushing zoning change for pier
A zoning change that would allow retail shops, restaurants and a hotel on the Maine State Pier is moving too fast, members of the Portland Planning Board said Tuesday.

Planners said that a national hotel developer appears to rushing the City Council to rezone the city-owned pier, which has 1,000 feet of deepwater berthing space, the longest in the harbor.

"I have a fair amount of dismay that we are rattling along so quickly," said Kevin Beal, the board's chairman at a workshop meeting Tuesday. "I am perplexed why a developer is driving this train. It's troubling."

Others expressed the same worries. Planning Board member David Silk, who called the pier a "jewel," said the city was moving too quickly to develop a vision for how it wants the pier to be redeveloped.

"What's the hurry?" asked Planning Board member Shalom Odokara. "Some of it makes sense. But this is the opportunity for the city to lead, not the developer to lead."

The city has been struggling to find a major tenant for the pier - best known to the public for the huge whale mural painted there - since Cianbro left two years ago. City councilors say nonmarine commercial development would generate income for the city and help it maintain the pier so cruise ships and other vessels can continue to use it.

Ocean Properties Ltd., the largest privately held hotel operating and development company in the United States, has shown interest in the site. Bob Baldacci, brother of Gov. John Baldacci and the company's vice president of development, met with city officials earlier this year.

James Cloutier, chairman of the City Council's community development committee, in an interview Tuesday described the proposed zoning change as a "follow-up" to the eastern waterfront master plan, the overriding plan for the Ocean Gateway, which is about 100 feet from the pier.

"This area has been in the planning process for a long time," he said.

The council plans to ask developers to give the city proposals for developing the pier. The current debate is about what kind of restrictions to place on the property before seeking the proposals.

The City Council is scheduled to have a public hearing on July 17. The Planning Board, which can only make a recommendation, will have a public hearing on July 11.

The zoning proposal requires that half the ground floor be set aside for marine uses, but it also allows retail shops and restaurants in 35 percent of the first floor. For the upper floors of new buildings, it allows offices.

While it prohibits residential uses, it does not prohibit a hotel. In the city's other waterfront districts, hotels are not allowed.

According to the proposal, the pier's deep water must be protected to provide berthing and support for large vessels. Also, new buildings must be positioned far enough away from the edge of the pier to allow docking crews to work.

Supporters, including the Portland Regional Chamber, see Boston's Rowe's Wharf as a model for how to combine marine uses with public access and other kinds of commercial develop- ment.

Diane Doyle, a Portland developer, said the city needs an exciting project to generate investment and lure visitors.

Jack Humeniuk, business agent for the Portland Longshoremen's Benevolent Society, said the pier was obsolete when he was working on it 31 years ago loading bags of potatoes into the holds of ships. He called the proposal a "logical and sensible" plan.

But several people spoke against the proposal. Ken Macgowan, who runs Custom House Wharf, complained the city has placed more restrictions on privately owned piers and wharves than it wants to put on city-owned property.

"It is amazing to me that the city has the gall to go forward with this," he said.

 

[cneal]

Why waterfront zoning matters

Actually, in the debate on waterfront zoning, it was actually the "hippies" (and aging yuppies) who wanted to infiltrate Portland's wharves with pet boutiques and condos that led fishermen and the city to adopt the more restrictive current zoning. As a result, Portland still has a working waterfront area, active twenty-four hours of the day and in my opinion the most urban zone of the entire city, while Boston and and countless other coastal cities have dead, gated condo communities instead.

Portland's planners are true professionals who deserve a lot of credit for what a nice place it is today, and I agree with them completely on this matter. The working waterfront helps the city maintain a sense of economic diversity even while developers build million-dollar condos a few blocks away. It also preserves an industry that is part of Maine's heritage, one that attracts a lot of tourists to the state. There are plenty of places in Portland to put hotels; there's only one place for a working waterfront.

Furthermore, the wharf in question has the advantage of a very deep water berth, a fairly rare commodity anywhere on the east coast. Especially as ground transportation costs continue to rise, the city would be foolish not to exploit this resource, which would be wasted on a hotel and precious shopping boutiques. I'd much rather have a periodically-empty wharf than another cluster of antique and aging-lady clothing stores.

I'll be watching this closely- it might be how developers get a foot in the door to kill Portland's working waterfront, and with it, its affordability and uniqueness.

 

[garbribre]

^ Good post and info cneal.

Living in Oakland, CA, another city that maintains and upgrades its port frequently, has even Seattle and LA and SF (by far) beat in many economic areas because its port remains so strong.

I hope Portland keeps it's fishing industry lively, too--not just 'hard' goods. (Sorry, not hip to the terminology.)

 

[Patrick]

True it was the yuppies who were overtaking the waterfront, with projects such as chandler's warf which had its units being sold off at auction prices years later, but it was not solely the fisherman (a small minority of portland's voting population) that voted to keep the working waterfront practically commercial-free. they were in support of the idea, surely, and likely were its driving force, but effective political support only comes in numbers, and the majority vote was secured by hippies. hippies in my definition are the types of people who dont like change, who dont think about things rationally, and who are usually not originally from portland, and therefore wish to restrict change because whatever it was about portland that drew them to the area is what they DO NOT want changed. hippies like to walk along the water and see whale walls and suns painted on the concrete and lobster decorated hacky sacks and people with dred locks smoking bongs on the rocks.

rational people realize that it is indeed important to keep portland's working waterfront alive, but only where it makes sense. Portland has one of the finest harbors in the country, and the largest tonnage port on the east coast, and none of this is attributable to the deep waters at the maine state pier. zero. in fact, as the article mentioned, it is costing the city money to keep this pier afloat (pardon the pun) while it would be generating additional revenue as a hotel. NIMBY's want to keep things that lose money (or make very little money) alive (like parking lots) and progressive thinkers want to shape those areas into money making and tourist exciting spots. such is the case with this pier. have you been to it lately? all that is there on any random day is a skateboarder or two and a family looking out to sea. with a hotel (done right) there could still be space left for the public to enjoy the views, while we could also add a meaningful landmark to the city. we could even design it to look like it fits in with the existing built environment (like practically every other project in the city has to by law). and with the new ocean gateway project going in, along with the other upgrades in that section of the city, it will be foolish not to sell the pier to private investors because its value will increase dramatically when all of the surrounding developments are completed.

also, portland's planners are indeed careful and wise with their calculations, and they are indeed skilled professionals, but planners never make anything a reality. the dumb city councilors block anything and everything because they are hippies (according to my definition). a new vision for bayside is the city's comprehensive plan for the bayside area. great plan. horrible implementation. there are like thirty grocery stores within a mile radius of the downtown of the states biggest city. not high rise office towers. grocery stores. the AAA headquarters was just built not even 6 years ago. it was a 5-story building. now they are expanding across the steet into a 4 story building addition. why didnt they just build a 9-story to begin with? prohibitive zoning. and whenenver a nice project does come up, the council reviews and debates it to death. they had to twist the arms and legs of hald their members just to pass the 15-story building zoning along the interstate last month. the city is nuts...

portland is a nice place to live because of the ambitious developers who changed it around. the old port was piece of trash before people started converting it into the "old lady" stores you are worried about. franklin towers, the tallest structure in the state, is the result of a private driven investment by the city's business leaders, even though it is a public housing complex, the high rises that compose the heart of our financial district are all attributable to ambitious developers from the 1980s. and the lincoln center and lincoln square projects would have made us better than a great city, we would have been magnificent. but they died. imagine if all the projects died because we were preserving our character...this would be a terrible 18th century village. if you ask me, a balance can be achieved, and thats what we should strive for. but it makes no sense to keep the maine state pier alive when it costs money...i cant afford to pay for it, but ill have to in tax dollars if its not converted to a hotel.

 

[grittys457]

Perhaps your strongest post to date, Patrick. Well done. That building really blocks out a lot of the harbor. Nice glass hotel there would be good not only for guests but for all the city people.

Just walked by Oceangate yesterday. They are digging up a huge area of land now. And the Whole Foods builders should build everything in this city.
Speedy

 

[Patrick]

Perhaps your strongest post to date, Patrick. Well done. That building really blocks out a lot of the harbor. Nice glass hotel there would be good not only for guests but for all the city people.

Just walked by Oceangate yesterday. They are digging up a huge area of land now. And the Whole Foods builders should build everything in this city.
Speedy

every word I wrote is the truth. Hippies can no longer be allowed to impress upon this city their visioon of utopia...not if mayor patrick has anything to say about it. I may be a democrat, but I am no hippy. I hope they build a skyscraper on that pier 8)

 

[portlandneedsnewarena]

CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

 

[Patrick]

Re: CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

well as I said before my father said that the CCCC put out an add to construction products suppliers across souther maine to see who could provide the needed materials for a new roof at the lowest cost about a month or two ago. he said he read it in a weekly publication his company gets. perhaps he misread it and what it really was advertising for was a rooftop restaurant along with a new roof. i will check into this by asking him to see if he can find the source material..

 

[portlandneedsnewarena]

Re: CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

well as I said before my father said that the CCCC put out an add to construction products suppliers across souther maine to see who could provide the needed materials for a new roof at the lowest cost about a month or two ago. he said he read it in a weekly publication his company gets. perhaps he misread it and what it really was advertising for was a rooftop restaurant along with a new roof. i will check into this by asking him to see if he can find the source material..

Patrick, what do you think of the idea of a rooftop restaurant on top of the existing CCCC? Certainly would be unique, but I think a bit far-fetched. PORTLAND build a new arena instead of some half-assed cobbled together mess!

 

[Patrick]

Re: CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

well as I said before my father said that the CCCC put out an add to construction products suppliers across souther maine to see who could provide the needed materials for a new roof at the lowest cost about a month or two ago. he said he read it in a weekly publication his company gets. perhaps he misread it and what it really was advertising for was a rooftop restaurant along with a new roof. i will check into this by asking him to see if he can find the source material..

Patrick, what do you think of the idea of a rooftop restaurant on top of the existing CCCC? Certainly would be unique, but I think a bit far-fetched. PORTLAND build a new arena instead of some half-assed cobbled together mess!

Yes, I am in total agreement with you. While I like the current arena's location, the building needs to, as you have said before, "see the wrecking ball in the next 5 years."

1. have you ever heard that it is many times more expensive to add an addition to a house than to buy a new one? well the same must hold true for a large structure like the CCCC, only it must be a LOT more expensive.

2. And putting a rooftop restaurant? unique, yes, but stupid also. how would people even get up there? the infrastructure adjustments would likely be overwhelming.

3. i can see it now: the restaurant falls through the roof because of a structural engineering mistake and every last one of the pirates dies from raining lobster claws. the building was not meant to support more than it currently handles for weight. Just build a new one.

 

[portlandneedsnewarena]

Re: CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

well as I said before my father said that the CCCC put out an add to construction products suppliers across souther maine to see who could provide the needed materials for a new roof at the lowest cost about a month or two ago. he said he read it in a weekly publication his company gets. perhaps he misread it and what it really was advertising for was a rooftop restaurant along with a new roof. i will check into this by asking him to see if he can find the source material..

Patrick, what do you think of the idea of a rooftop restaurant on top of the existing CCCC? Certainly would be unique, but I think a bit far-fetched. PORTLAND build a new arena instead of some half-assed cobbled together mess!

Yes, I am in total agreement with you. While I like the current arena's location, the building needs to, as you have said before, "see the wrecking ball in the next 5 years."

1. have you ever heard that it is many times more expensive to add an addition to a house than to buy a new one? well the same must hold true for a large structure like the CCCC, only it must be a LOT more expensive.

2. And putting a rooftop restaurant? unique, yes, but stupid also. how would people even get up there? the infrastructure adjustments would likely be overwhelming.

3. i can see it now: the restaurant falls through the roof because of a structural engineering mistake and every last one of the pirates dies from raining lobster claws. the building was not meant to support more than it currently handles for weight. Just build a new one.

Or the next Kiss Concert the roof catches fire and poof there goes the restaurant and everyone in it! I think the top of the CCCC would be a good location for a Hooters Restaurant.
So Patrick, you being a Democrat, but not caring for Baldscratchy, who are you going to support for Governor? I'm for Woodcock all the way!

 

[Patrick]

Re: CCCC

I caught the end of a news blurb this morning on the radio (WBLM) about the Portland Pirates hiring someone named Smith, who I guess designed the new right field seating amongst other things for the Sea Dogs (Hadlock Field) and they want this person to look into designing (for the Cumberland County Civic Center) luxury boxes and (get this) a rooftop restaurant on top of the CCCC overlooking the City. Don't know where WBLM got this info. I haven't seen or been able to find any articles regarding it. Has anyone (Patrick) heard any further info regarding this?

well as I said before my father said that the CCCC put out an add to construction products suppliers across souther maine to see who could provide the needed materials for a new roof at the lowest cost about a month or two ago. he said he read it in a weekly publication his company gets. perhaps he misread it and what it really was advertising for was a rooftop restaurant along with a new roof. i will check into this by asking him to see if he can find the source material..

Patrick, what do you think of the idea of a rooftop restaurant on top of the existing CCCC? Certainly would be unique, but I think a bit far-fetched. PORTLAND build a new arena instead of some half-assed cobbled together mess!

Yes, I am in total agreement with you. While I like the current arena's location, the building needs to, as you have said before, "see the wrecking ball in the next 5 years."

1. have you ever heard that it is many times more expensive to add an addition to a house than to buy a new one? well the same must hold true for a large structure like the CCCC, only it must be a LOT more expensive.

2. And putting a rooftop restaurant? unique, yes, but stupid also. how would people even get up there? the infrastructure adjustments would likely be overwhelming.

3. i can see it now: the restaurant falls through the roof because of a structural engineering mistake and every last one of the pirates dies from raining lobster claws. the building was not meant to support more than it currently handles for weight. Just build a new one.

Or the next Kiss Concert the roof catches fire and poof there goes the restaurant and everyone in it! I think the top of the CCCC would be a good location for a Hooters Restaurant.
So Patrick, you being a Democrat, but not caring for Baldscratchy, who are you going to support for Governor? I'm for Woodcock all the way!

This is a tough one. Republicans are generally very smart and rational people, whereas democrats are generally fluffy emotional irrational thinkers. I am a democrat simnply because I believe in helping the disadvantaged and the struggling instead of catering to the needs of the rich. Even though hold a degree in Politics, to tell you the truth I am still confused about where I stand. I generally look at each candidate for a position and whoever sounds better I will support. That makes me sorta an independent, but I tend to side more often with democrats. I hate Baldacci for what he did to block the lincoln center, but I admire him for where he stands on immigration issues. I might refrain from this election because I am uninformed to the point that I might make a poor decision. we will see, I have only just voted in my first election (2004) and I think I will need to register soon if I plan on voting for maine gov. I probably will but more important things could come up. either way im sure we will get stuck with an idiot for gov.

 

[grittys457]

Here's the info on the cccc. YOu're welcome

http://www.wgme13.com/NewsWeather/streaming/newsD.shtml

 

[Patrick]

Gritty's is in that video, hes the half irish whole italian guy 2/3 of the way through with the slicked back hair and singular forehead wrinkle, which he developed after learning the westin will nt be built. You can see the top of the letters on his black tee shirt that read "I used to wear Karl Kani."

anyway thanks for the vid...i hope they build a 2,000 seat arena in my backyard, that would be siiick.

 

[S-Roll]

I wouldn't be surprised if this Smith woman recommends that a new arena be built, but I know the city council will turn their backs to her and keep their aging Civic Center standing for the next 10 years. I mean, how are they possibly going to cram more seats into that building without knocking down walls or taking the roof off? That would be very expensive and would make that area a construction mess. I hope Boulos will brush the dust off the Lincoln Center plans and find some other way to finance that project. Of course there is probably a one in a million chance of that happening. :x

 

[Patrick]

I wouldn't be surprised if this Smith woman recommends that a new arena be built, but I know the city council will turn their backs to her and keep their aging Civic Center standing for the next 10 years. I mean, how are they possibly going to cram more seats into that building without knocking down walls or taking the roof off? That would be very expensive and would make that area a construction mess. I hope Boulos will brush the dust off the Lincoln Center plans and find some other way to finance that project. Of course there is probably a one in a million chance of that happening. :x

email him, thats what I do, he will tell you anything you want to know about what the actual chances are it will be built. Boulos carries around a blackberry handheld with him at all times and he will answer your e-mail promptly, he is very polite. The current arena cannot stay another ten years, because that would mean the city is waiting 17 years past the time they originally thought of making a new one just to build it...it will fall to pieces by then. I hope they dont build a rooftop restaurant because even if a new arena is built that means they cant destroy the old one...and we dont need two...

 

[grittys457]

Fooooock! She thinks the CCCC is a Diamond in the ROugh. argghhhhh

http://www.wgme13.com/NewsWeather/streaming/newsA.shtml

 

[Patrick]

well, gritty's -- this might not be so bad, actually.

Lets face it, the city will not build a new arena anytime soon, and the guy on the clip you posted last night said that any improvements would be for the short to the mid term..meaning until a new arena will be built (which could be a very long either way...so i guess its good that until one comes along we will be getting a better arena.

I mean, I like what the woman has to say. Did you see how much room was in between the exterior walls and the street? there is enough room to expand that arena quite a bit, as long as they are willing to take the walls out wider, which it seems like they are willing to do.

And, with new seats, new facilities (bathroom concessions etc) and a wider base for many more seats, and with a new rooftop restaurant, this sounds like it could be very exciting.

the type of rennovations i did NOT want to see were the ones where they put new bolts and screws in the chairs and painted the walkways and other crap that you wouldnt even notice if it were done. but if they are talking about extending the walls of the building, it is essentially like building a new building altogether, in the same spot, and probably will not even look like the existing strucutre. especially with the rooftoprestaurant, whcih would be neat, but strange as hell.

And every study I have heard about says we need a 10,000 seat arena, so maybe they would add another 3,000 seats so that we could actually get all of those seats. lets face it, its better than sitting on our hands...i bet it would look really cool, and it IS an ideal location.

 

[Patrick]

They just had an extended version of the civic center story on the news at 11 on chan 13...had bits and pieces of both clips you already posted plus some new info. on the screen they had red lines drawn in to show where the walls would be taken back, and the architect apparently agrees with me saying that it is in an IDEAL LOCATION. she also noted that SEVERAL roof top bars and restaurants could/would be added. This almost sounds awesome to me, way better than some random arena westbrook or scarborough or even in bayside...as long as they can dramatically make it look better and expand the seating and stuff i will be happy. This will also leave the top of the old port parking lot open to high rise development.

also had a story on how the new whole foods grocer wont be selling any lobstahs cause it is against their mission of being human to animals. whatevr i guess, but the reason im telling you about the story is cause the were zoomed in on a construction guy on the second floor and all you could see in the background were like the top 15 floors of the franklin towers and it was weird cause it looked like a skyscraper in some big city.

 

[S-Roll]

I sent Joe Boulos an email on Friday about whether or not he is still persuing on building the Lincoln Center. It was before the 6:00 news came on so I didn't know that Smith recommended expanding the CCCC instead of building a new one. Anyway, I asked him if he was still hoping to build the Lincoln Center and if he was trying find another way to fund it. Today he replied with: "Sean [me], one should never give up!" I don't mean to cause a new round of speculation, but I assume the project isn't completely 100% dead yet and Joe still wishes to build it when the time comes.