Portland, ME - New Construction Continued

[toddc]

I'm a little curious about the Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad. I realize this is a tourist attraction. Is it a popular one? Where do the one mile of tracks lead to?
Also, (a random thought here) why hasn't the Narrow Gauge railroad been trapped as a cool source of inter peninsula transit? It could have the potential to be a sustainable transit option, and would attract tourists like San Francisco's street cars.
Like I said, just a random thought, I'm curious what people think of this idea...

 

[Patrick]

I'm a little curious about the Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad. I realize this is a tourist attraction. Is it a popular one? Where do the one mile of tracks lead to?
Also, (a random thought here) why hasn't the Narrow Gauge railroad been trapped as a cool source of inter peninsula transit? It could have the potential to be a sustainable transit option, and would attract tourists like San Francisco's street cars.
Like I said, just a random thought, I'm curious what people think of this idea...

Todd,

Everything you said has already been considered. Currently, the MNRR does a back and forth trip on the Eastern Waterfront, where it rounds the bend of the peninsula, paralleling a pedestrian walking trail the abuts the ocean, the rocky coast, parks, and a small beach, then it comes back. It is a tourist attraction, but just recently actually I heard that the city had considered extending the tracks for an inter-peninsula loop (I think through Bayside and over the the Sea Dogs (minor league Red Sox affiliates) on the other side of the peninsula. This still would have been primarily a tourist attraction, but the thought is that it may have developed into a sustainable transportation method as business in the Bayside neighborhood continue to grow. As it stands, I think the MNRR is scheduled to move to another town in Maine, which would free up the tracks to be widened for more transit based use. I don't know too much about this, other than the bits and pieces I've heard from various sources, some credible others not so much, but this is what I have heard.

 

[toddc]

I hope they don't move....there was a mention on their website of an addition of three miles of tracks extending it to hadlock field, but I'm not sure how old that posting was.

 

[Patrick]

The info about them moving is something I heard by word of mouth, from a classmate, and not something I can verify. More of a rumor I guess. Here is an article speaking to exactly what you mentioned, and it said the addition should have been complete in 2008.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-116835910.html

I'm not sure how this project got derailed, pun intended.

 

[Patrick]

just kidding, got 'em.

Also, todd, I don't know for sure, but I believe the rail right of way that would have enabled this progressive and visionary project was purchased by the city and turned into the Bayside trail (rail to trail ped path through the industrial neighborhood). I don't know what if any effect this would have on a revived effort sometime in the future to complete this idea of light rail to Hadlock from the eastern waterfront. I don't know how wide the ROW is, but I know the Bayside neighborhood was never pleased with the idea of running a train through their streets. This is a tough one for me, because I think the Bayside promenade is a total asset for the city, and offers great connectivity and landscaping that will benefit major development there in the future, but I also think the neighborhood would have developed much quicker if it was served by mass transit to the old port and perhaps beyond. I hope both can one day co exist somehow, but I'm thinking the rail idea might be precluded by the trail that currently exists.

 

[FrankLloydMike]

That project does sound like it would have been very interesting. I wonder if in cities the size of Portland, Lowell, Manchester and so on, a combination tourist-mass transit option makes sense. I know Lowell has the trolley museum and runs trolleys in part of the downtown, though I have no idea how well used (if at all) it is as mass transit. It seems like if this project had gone through, it and the Lowell trolleys could serve similar hybrid roles. In cities as compact as these, it may be a long time before there's a critical mass of people willing to use mass transit regularly. Aside from all the larger issues that have been discussed regarding mass transit on here, I think it's important to note that the Portland peninsula, downtown Manchester and downtown Lowell are more walkable and easier to drive in than larger cities, so there's less of a demand for mass transit even where the density could support it. I still think investing in mass transit and zoning for walking/transit are the best ways to increase use, but a project like this could have been a great way of easing into mass transit. My guess would be that it would be used mostly by tourists at first, maybe as transit during events, and only marginally as transit regularly, but I bet over time it would lead to increased transit use and demand. At the same time, I also think biking and walking are key parts of transit in cities of this size, and projects like the Bayside Trail will hopefully do a lot not only as a recreational trail but also as an alternate transit option.

 

[Lrfox]

Thanks for the photos. I have to be honest. The renderings for the hotel left a LOT to be desired. I was nervous that it would be just another stubby generic box. However, looking at the construction photos, I have to say I like the massing and what it appears it will do for the street life and street wall over there. I'm impressed. Anything that will hug the sidewalk and bring more people to that area is good.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks for the photos. I have to be honest. The renderings for the hotel left a LOT to be desired. I was nervous that it would be just another stubby generic box. However, looking at the construction photos, I have to say I like the massing and what it appears it will do for the street life and street wall over there. I'm impressed. Anything that will hug the sidewalk and bring more people to that area is good.

Yeah no problem. I agree with you about what the project will do for the area. And, when it is done, it will have new street lamps of the sort prevalent on other streets in the eastern waterfront (old fashioned looking) and will have a restaurant fronting the street corner. Should be an overall good project in the end.

 

[Patrick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOJJJ7jOitM

 

[Patrick]

Todd - I posted a brief article on my blog re: the MNGRR after our discussion a few days back. You may or may not be interested in reading it. The link is at the bottom of this post.

 

[toddc]

I read your blog this morning, Thank you....the story was interesting. I would really love to see light rail in Portland sometime soon!

 

[FrankLloydMike]

I agree--very interesting read, and too bad it's a missed opportunity. I think streetcars running the length Congress or something like that would be great in Portland.

Also, happy 100th page!

 

[Patrick]

the new veterans memorial bridge is, I think, being constructed so as to be capable of accommodating light rail in the future. Also, I've seen maps that show light rail lines considered for along franklin arterial street and surrounding environs. Also, although the rail tracks for streetcars are probably still under the pavement on Congress street, I'm not sure if we'll ever see their return to use. Portland North is a study by MDOT for commuting options and one of the proposals calls for a dedicated bus lane down the length of congress for a BRT system, which would leave very little room for rail unless they overlapped. I think even if transportation efficiency didn't increase too much, they would be an attraction, which we could use as an economic development tool. Portland exports a sense of place and an experience to others who come here. However, we also have our local economy to focus on. To the extent, then, that we can do both--that is, build new buildings for our workers that look like the old one, or accommodate transportation needs efficiently AND do so in a way that appeals to tourists--the better. I'd really like to see a streetcar system.

 

[Patrick]

Not sure where these pics would be most appropriately posted, so here they are (from Paragon Real Estate's website):

 

[Patrick]

Also, I just had by paper on urban growth boundaries featured on a national law professors' web blog, along with a reference to my blog.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/land_use/

 

[Patrick]

Talked with someone in the planning department for Portland yesterday, and here's the scoop on rail through Bayside. Phineas Sprague Jr. looked at the Bayside Trail right of way, but it was ultimately determined that the best route would be along Marginal Way. Which is still a possibility in the future. Apparently, the reason there is such a large median on Marginal Way and the reason why there are curb "bump outs" in front of Intermed is to ensure that enough space is reserved for future rail corridor if that ever becomes a possibility again. There is also still a possibility of amtrak running behind intermed, but that is not something likely in the near future given the current investment in the alternative route to Brunswick. There is also the potential for rail along the bayside trail (or there was, I should say), because the right of way is large enough to accommodate both uses, but the decision was made not to do things that way.

 

[Patrick]

This is the building originally planned for Bayside. It is a retrofit of the anthem building, previously used as Sears if I am not mistaken (Portlander?).

 

[Portlander]

You are correct sir. Though I would have favored a new office building in Bayside, 200 plus employees will be a welcome boost to that part of downtown.

 

[Corey]

The Maine Health Building on Free Street is featured in the Press Herald today, it looks great. I would love to work downtown in a building like that. There is also a story today about the rebuilding of the St. Lawrence Church Sanctuary on Munjoy Hill.

 

[Corey]

Out on Forest Ave, which would be a great place to reinstall streetcars: