Portland, ME - New Construction Continued

Is Libbytown near Thompson's Point? If I am correct, there is a lot of open space that could be developed in this vicinity....any know?
 
This property was considered for a massive housing development by Massachusetts developers in the 1980s. It would have included 500 units. The project was either not viable financially, or not viable politically, because it was obviously never built. This property was listed for sale in 2007 at $12 million (for the entire 30 acres). There used to be a concept rendering on this site, and I think there still may be somewhere, but its not in the renderings thread. The concept rendering showed mixed use office/commercial/retail/housing (or something along those lines) with structured parking. So, if the Redclaws are in fact involved, chances are their arena will be the anchor for a much larger, phased development. In my opinion, it would make sense to locate an arena there, because given that the Redclaws season is in the tourist off-season, most attendants are likely to be Mainers (most of whom live OFF The peninsula. I think anything in that neck of the woods will be a positive development, but I hope the interconnectivity of the place--via bike, walking, and car/train/bus--continues. Isn't there some sort of a trail around there already? connection to the mall, airport, veterans bridge and the portland transportation hub is key. Here is the article from 2007, and I'll continue to look for the concept rendering:

06-27-2007, 09:21 AM
I wanted to post this article before the pressherald takes it down:

Thompson's Point: A site to behold

The 30-acre property on the Fore River is on the market for $12 million, and local Realtors say it is a prime location for development.

Dumpsters and storage containers that now line a potholed gravel parking lot soon could be replaced by upscale office buildings, a parking garage and maybe a hotel. Rows of tractor-trailers behind a chain-link fence could give way to luxury housing facing the Fore River salt marshes, within walking distance of a new bus and train station.

These are images of Thompson's Point today and, perhaps, a few years from now.

For the first time in nearly a quarter-century, Thompson's Point is for sale. The asking price is $12 million.

The real estate company listing it says the 30-acre property is the largest available development site in the city of Portland. It's also among the most visible, passed by thousands of motorists every day on Interstate 295.

The out-of-state owner appreciates the importance of the high-profile location, according to Alan Fishman, principal at the Fishman Realty Group in Portland. He wants the property marketed selectively to developers who have a progressive vision of a mixed-use, waterfront neighborhood that will serve as a gateway into the city.

"He's not just going to sell it to any developer," Fishman said. "He wants to see something significant happen that will be good for the area."

Despite its industrial character, Thompson's Point doesn't have any outstanding environmental cleanup issues, according to Fishman, and it is zoned for mixed uses. Fishman's company is promoting the site as a perfect place for so-called new urbanism design principles -- clusters of homes, offices, restaurants and retail services stitched together by walking trails and a master plan.

This won't be the first time big ideas have been considered for Thompson's Point. In 1986, the owners proposed 500 units of waterfront housing and a marina. City planners killed the proposal, concerned with traffic, airport noise, zoning and the overall scale of the project.

The reaction could be different in 2007.

"Gateway is the word I'd use, too," said Lee Urban, the city planning and development director. "It would be an incredible plus for the city if this kind of development can happen."

The city's view of Thompson's Point may have evolved, in part because the area around the site has changed dramatically over the past two decades.

Residents and travelers may see Thompson's Point stuck in time, a rough-edged, industrial collection of old brick and metal buildings. But the point's history -- recent and long ago -- suggests that a transformation is overdue.

HISTORY OF THE POINT

Thompson's Point first emerged as a business center as part of the towpath adjacent to the Cumberland and Oxford Canal. Built in the 1820s, the canal was a main route of commerce between Portland and the Lakes Region. The point was a hub of activity when canal boats and barges turned around in the adjacent basin.

Rail transportation made the canal obsolete, but rail access to the point prompted Maine Central Railroad to build two car-repair buildings around 1890. The federal government took control of the large brick buildings for the war effort during World War II. Farther out on the point, Maine Cement Products built a cinder block plant in the 1950s.

The point came into modern ownership in 1984, when three Boston real estate developers bought it. The $25 million housing project they proposed in 1986 was greeted skeptically by city planners, and it later died. Subsequent ideas, such as a biotechnology park, never got off the ground.

In the interim, the railroad and cement plant buildings took on other missions. Today the point is occupied by nearly two dozen small businesses, including companies involved with carpentry, electrical services, building restoration, waste disposal, metal fabrication and distribution. On a weekday morning, the site pulsates with truck and car traffic as deliveries arrive and workers come and go.

It's a busy place, but Thompson's Point isn't being used to its highest potential.

Until recently, the area could be accessed only through city streets. Now it's connected to the Interstate by a new exit ramp.

That ramp leads directly to the city's transportation center for regional buses and Amtrak trains. The center has become so popular, there's hardly room to park.

Immediately upriver, Mercy Hospital's new campus is taking shape on 52 acres. Gone are piles of metal and glass destined for recycling. In their place is a scenic walking trail that winds two miles along the Fore River, under the Interstate and around Thompson's Point.

Circumstances also have changed for the owner, Thompson's Point Inc. Formerly controlled by three partners, the corporation now has one owner, Peter Van Wyck. Now retired from business, Van Wyck wants to see the property sold and turned into a landmark development.

TIMING IS KEY

A concept plan prepared for buyers by Fishman Realty Group suggests how the site could accommodate luxury housing, a new transit center for buses and trains, offices, a marina and a parking garage. All this would be ringed by a tree-lined walking path along the water, part of the expanding Portland Trails network.

This concept faces some potential obstacles. Among them: pulling together all the transportation companies and perhaps negotiating a relocation plan with a propane distribution company that operates from a site it owns at the top of the point.

Despite these and other challenges, commercial real estate agents see the potential.

"I think it's one of the best development sites in the area," said Tony McDonald, who works with major mixed-use projects at CB Richard Ellis/The Boulos Co.

The site has 25 acres of developable land and just under five acres of wetlands. The asking price, roughly $500,000 an acre, seems in line with market rates, McDonald said. The site's visibility, road access and water frontage add to its value. The challenge, he said, is finding a buyer who has an appropriate use for such a large parcel of land.

Urban, the city's planning official, wonders about the demand for large-scale hotel and condo development. The downturn in the market has led current developers to scale back or stop some proposed projects, he noted. So beyond location, timing will be a critical factor in what happens next at Thompson's Point.

'BEST OF BOTH WORLDS'

It's hard to gauge timing right now. Fishman Realty Group has been quietly marketing the site to potential buyers for months but hasn't mounted a full-scale advertising campaign. There's some interest, Fishman said, but the details are confidential.

Any buyer will have to see beyond the industrial clutter that defines the site now. That wasn't so difficult walking the property with Fishman on a sunny day last week.

Along the northwest shoreline, Portland Trails has broadcast wildflowers and created a bench from an old boat hull on a bluff above the salt marsh. Across the water is a wooded peninsula. Noise from the highway seems far off.

This scenic overlook is bounded now by a chain-link fence and tractor-trailers, but Fishman can picture houses set back to take advantage of the seclusion.

"You're downtown, but you can hear the birds," he said. "It's the best of both worlds."
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Todd, TP is by LT. LT really is the absence of a neighborhood. It used to be a town center, but no longer is this the case. There isn't a lot of open space around there that could be developed, although the visual may be misleading due to the presence of a few large parks/fields and the inefficient/suburban layout of existing structures. So yes, there may be some open land, but not much (other than TP) that is ripe for development.
 
A guest reader of this forum who saved a copy of the original news article on this topic very nicely emailed a scanned copy of the concept rendering to me this morning. Here it is:
155142_653512393830_6903714_37938916_4654166_n.jpg
 
I can see the potential....if the arena does end up getting built on TP, I wonder what else will follow...any thoughts?
 
This is a red claws specific arena from the sound of it, not a cccc replacement. I'm thinking maybe 4,000-5,000 seats. Be a good place to have mid sized concerts in between state theater and cccc size.

There is no way it is just them spending 9 million on land for a new NBDL arena. There are going to be some heavy hitters and big wallets involved and I think this is going to be a full layout of retail, office, etc. Be a nice anchor though and a sure way to keep Manchvegas from stealing the NBDL team from us.
 
If this is in fact a Red Claws arena--and I'm not sure at this point that it is--I think Gritty's is right that that won't be all that is involved. 25 acres is plenty of land, and to diversify investment risk, it would make sense to pursue a mix of uses--whatever they may be. Arenas themselves don't take up too much land, but you have to remember that people who visit them need places to park (unless they take the nearby train, which may be a much greater possibility in the near future), so parking could be a major component of any new arena (if there is in fact one planned). At first, I can see it being surface, then as development pressure grows in later years, structured might be the best way to go. Should be exciting to hear what is in the offing.
 
If this is in fact a Red Claws arena--and I'm not sure at this point that it is--I think Gritty's is right that that won't be all that is involved. 25 acres is plenty of land, and to diversify investment risk, it would make sense to pursue a mix of uses--whatever they may be. Arenas themselves don't take up too much land, but you have to remember that people who visit them need places to park (unless they take the nearby train, which may be a much greater possibility in the near future), so parking could be a major component of any new arena (if there is in fact one planned). At first, I can see it being surface, then as development pressure grows in later years, structured might be the best way to go. Should be exciting to hear what is in the offing.

Also, are we ruling out that Petrovek might have some desire to move from the CCCC to TP? We know that he has not been pleased with the state of the civ ctr for some time now.

Here are what some 5,000 seater arenas look like in other cities:
img64517.jpg

images
 
Is it just me, or has the pace of commercial construction really started to pick up? New TD free standing site at West Gate Shopping Plaza, new Town & Country retrofit on Forest Ave, some new free standing structure over by VMB by Valley and St. Johns, a major new retail plaza under construction in So. Portland by the Outback, the new Jetport, the Hampton, etc. Everywhere I look there are projects springing up.
 
Patrick said:
...some new free standing structure over by VMB by Valley and St. Johns...
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Anyone know what this is going to be? I still haven't seen any 'coming soon' signs near the building. At first I thought they were doing some work related to the new bridge and the new intersection layout there but then I saw a building rising.
 
There's a "under contract" sign back on the building in front of Whole Foods. I remember it had the signs on it last year but then somebody pulled out.

I've heard that is one of the most successful Whole Foods in the country, the Hannaford's is basically the most successful location, and I'm sure it's obvious what Trader Joe's is doing. You have to think that is opening up some eyes and some retail bigs will start looking at that area.
 
as you may have seen, today's paper has a story on the empty lots around india street. some want to turn them into parking lots, but councilor donahue, quite wisely in my opinion, thinks this would only worsen the problem
 
Gritty's - I was down that way this past weekend and noticed the "under contract" signs too, I am interested to see what happens over there. I think there is some great possibility for retail development in Bayside. I'd like to see denser development with less parking lots but I understand that some parking is necessary to accommodate the economic growth. I'm all about buying local, but I don't think that adding some national retailers downtown would have a big negative effect. The mall is only 10 minutes away by car as it is.

Patrick - I just checked out the story at the PPH. I agree, Councilor Donoghue has a good view on the topic. I am very weary of putting up 'temporary' parking lots on the empty lots down there. There is already quite a bit of parking in the area and as much as I despise monolithic parking structures I think I dislike surface parking lots more. I wasn't aware that the city will make payments to the Ocean Gateway Garage (which is operated by Standard Parking, which also operates the Gateway Parking Garage on High Street and I believe they operate the old Public Market Garage) if occupancy dips below a certain level. I take pictures from the Ocean Gateway Garage regularly and it seems to be empty above the 3rd floor all the time so I wonder at what point the city would have to pay for the emptiness.
 
According to what I have heard, the idea in Bayside is to capture growth that might otherwise locate near the mall in an office park (by providing ample parking and easy access). I don't know if the same idea applies to retail, but I agree that it probably wouldn't be bad, for the reasons mentioned. Moreover, Burlington, VT has a MALL downtown, and although not as cool as Portland, it is a very similar place with lots of other types of shops. They can co-exist.

I did some research today about the new building by VMB. It is actually on Danforth Street (at 501) and is new construction by PropSys, Inc. I can't find any info on that company other than it is a developer and residential property management company out of Lewiston-Auburn that was recently sued for not informing residents of some of its properties that they had led paint in their units (or something like that). I can't imagine this structure would be housing, though, given its size and location.
 
I very much enjoyed CNeal's recent post about the propsed (hopefully not built) technology park out near the Westbrook line:

http://rightsofway.blogspot.com/2010/11/rocketing-into-1990s-portlands.html

To quote the promo about this technology park from the city website:

The proposed development site is adjacent to over 200 acres of Resource Protection Area, including an Audubon Sanctuary and numerous wooded trails. For this and other reasons, there is an interest in incorporating low impact development green building technology in this business park.
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Why yes, this would be a good place to show an interest in low-impact green buildings considering it is adjacent to over 200 acres of Resource Protection Area and undeveloped land. It would seem that taking that into account, it would make development in the downtown area (i.e. The Business District) a more low-impact option with countless other benefits and lower costs.
 
The Technology Park is something that I am vaguely familiar with.....I am wondering what would be wrong with locating Portland's biotechnology business in a mid rise office building in the Bayside neighborhood? A technology park on the outskirts of town seems to support low-density and sprawl....something within reasonable proximity to the city's business district would be a more sensible choice in my opinion
 
toddc said:
The Technology Park is something that I am vaguely familiar with.....I am wondering what would be wrong with locating Portland's biotechnology business in a mid rise office building in the Bayside neighborhood? A technology park on the outskirts of town seems to support low-density and sprawl....something within reasonable proximity to the city's business district would be a more sensible choice in my opinion
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I agree that downtown is the way to go, but for whatever reason(s), some business models still view it as more profitable to pursue strip development. Portland is trying to capture that development to balance its budget, not because it loves sprawl. Also, remember land prices are a big factor (downtown is always more expensive, as are high rise buildings in general).

That said, I agree the tech park is a very uninteresting project (which I might add has been in the works for YEARS) and is furthermore a less than optimal use of land. The lowest impact there could be is, just as corey said, in a downtown setting. Selling this smart growth concept to people is harder than one might think.
 
If it's been in the works for years....what is delaying it? Perhaps this project will join the list of proposals that are talked about, and then never get built. Patrick, you are right, smartgrowtu isn't a no brainer, although you would think Maine's largest city would fully embrace the concept, even for projects like this one
 
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