Potential Exelon Mystic Station Redevelopment | Everett

[Charlie_mta]

One of the major things they'll need to figure out is exit 28 off 93 with all the new development. Traffic will continually back up on to the highway.

The NB exit off of I-93 was a mistake from the beginning. My choice would be to eliminate it outright. If not that, then at least relocate it to what was originally planned in the Big Dig project, which was to place this off-ramp further to the south so that it would have dumped onto Rutherford Ave on the north edge of the Bunker Hill Community College campus. Not an ideal solution, but at least that location would provide some distance to disperse the traffic, compared to the current location.

 

[Vagabond]

One of the major things they'll need to figure out is exit 28 off 93 with all the new development. Traffic will continually back up on to the highway.

The NB exit off of I-93 was a mistake from the beginning. My choice would be to eliminate it outright. If not that, then at least relocate it to what was originally planned in the Big Dig project, which was to place this off-ramp further to the south so that it would have dumped onto Rutherford Ave on the north edge of the Bunker Hill Community College campus. Not an ideal solution, but at least that location would provide some distance to disperse the traffic, compared to the current location.

I sorrrrt of agree with you both, but it's not like this ramp (OLD 28- now exist 20) is short.1800+feet of 2-lane traffic. Without increasing the thruput of Sullivan AND lower broadway I'm not sure how you fix this. It's why the flyovers never worked either.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

So you are taking a bridge that is 2 lanes in each direction (Alford) and you want to remove one of those lanes for a bus lane? That seems like a net negative for everybody who doesn't want to ride a bus, which is most people. Thus, making bad traffic worse 365 days a year, instead of just event days.

The three bus routes that use Alford carry more than 8000 passengers each day.

Somebody doesn't know how this works. . .

 

[DZH22]

The three bus routes that use Alford carry more than 8000 passengers each day.

There's over 10,000 vehicles that cross from Everett to Charlestown daily, with approximately 95% of those being passenger vehicles. So that's just 1 way, and even if we assumed a single passenger for every car it's still about 9,850 vs your 8,000 cited. Then of course there are some cars with passengers which would inflate that total, and we'd also have the return trips. Plus, here's an actual link to the data instead of expecting people to blindly believe your statistics. Page 5, second paragraph:

https://itdp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Everett-BRT-Playbook-Appendices_2021.pdf

Somebody doesn't know how this works. . .

The way that it seems to work in your world is that giving 1 set of unsubstantiated "facts" without making any comparisons to the rest of the data is sufficient. It isn't, even if the unsupported facts you present are correct, because it's one-sided. In this case, data shows that we'd be negatively impacting a much larger group of people than will be helped by converting normal lanes to bus lanes.

This is a really silly set of pictures. Either you significantly hamper overall mobility, or you are unable to deviate from very narrow set paths within a set schedule. For me, nothing in my life brings me the true sense of American freedom as the ability to go any direction, at any time, in my own car. I rode the subway for 4 years while working in Boston in my 20's and there were enough uncomfortable things that went on that I don't feel the need or desire to return to that lifestyle.

For something like the graphic above, I deal with some traffic yes, but get to take a direct route to where I'm going where I then find parking and become a pedestrian.

Lastly, as an aside, I can't help but feel that the same general set of people who shut down the whole state for covid are now the ones demanding that we all pack together like sardines on trains and buses.

 

[stellarfun]

While the traffic is certainly an issue as it stands, it's important to note that the stadium is transit-focused with almost no on-site parking for fans. The stadium proposal is leaning heavily on the Orange Line (15-20 minute walk) and an extended Silver Line in a dedicated busway down Broadway/Alford ( and maybe even Urban Ring one day). No doubt some people will drive in still but it will be far from the environment of a Patriots game.


I'm not sure what you mean about opportunity cost. The stadium will be completely privately funded by Kraft along with the cleanup of the site. Boston and Everett will have to improve the transportation infrastructure around the area which you've identified as an issue in 2.

As I recall the agreement between the Krafts and the city of Everett, the pedestrian crossing between Sullivan Square and the stadium was to be 'funded by others'. The 'others' were not otherwise identified. True, the pedestrian crossing would entirely be within the city of Boston, and the city was not a party to the agreement.

I agree with your first point though. The agreement basically would preclude fans arriving by automobile and parking. IIRC, the casino garages could not be used for fan parking. What the agreement did not address was how mass transit gets 20,000+ fans to and from the stadium in a reasonable time.

 

[Ruairi]

There's over 10,000 vehicles that cross from Everett to Charlestown daily, with approximately 95% of those being passenger vehicles. So that's just 1 way, and even if we assumed a single passenger for every car it's still about 9,850 vs your 8,000 cited. Then of course there are some cars with passengers which would inflate that total, and we'd also have the return trips. Plus, here's an actual link to the data instead of expecting people to blindly believe your statistics. Page 5, second paragraph:

https://itdp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Everett-BRT-Playbook-Appendices_2021.pdf

The way that it seems to work in your world is that giving 1 set of unsubstantiated "facts" without making any comparisons to the rest of the data is sufficient. It isn't, even if the unsupported facts you present are correct, because it's one-sided. In this case, data shows that we'd be negatively impacting a much larger group of people than will be helped by converting normal lanes to bus lanes.



This is a really silly set of pictures. Either you significantly hamper overall mobility, or you are unable to deviate from very narrow set paths within a set schedule. For me, nothing in my life brings me the true sense of American freedom as the ability to go any direction, at any time, in my own car. I rode the subway for 4 years while working in Boston in my 20's and there were enough uncomfortable things that went on that I don't feel the need or desire to return to that lifestyle.

For something like the graphic above, I deal with some traffic yes, but get to take a direct route to where I'm going where I then find parking and become a pedestrian.

Lastly, as an aside, I can't help but feel that the same general set of people who shut down the whole state for covid are now the ones demanding that we all pack together like sardines on trains and buses.

Wow, you're running the boards tonight
dont like soccer or busses, love American freedom, bringing up covid lockdowns.
I'm beginning to think you might actually think 15 minute cities are a deep state ploy to control the sheeple!

 

[DZH22]

dont like soccer...

I went and got more stats for you. According to this website, the Columbus Crew, defending champions in the MLS Cup, are the 239th ranked team in the world. 239!!! 239!!!!!!!!!!!

World Football / Soccer Clubs Ranking - FootballDatabase

Manchester City from England is the best football / soccer team of the world today. Real Madrid (Spain) comes in second place while Barcelona (Spain) is third. Liverpool FC from England and Inter Milan from Italy complete the Top 5. Check out our complete club world rankings.

footballdatabase.com

The second best US team, Los Angeles FC, is 373rd in the world. Sadly this is all significantly worse than I thought in even my "biggest hater" moments.

The New England Revolution are 828th in the world, right here on page 17.

World Football / Soccer Clubs Ranking - FootballDatabase

Manchester City from England is the best football / soccer team of the world today. Real Madrid (Spain) comes in second place while Barcelona (Spain) is third. Liverpool FC from England and Inter Milan from Italy complete the Top 5. Check out our complete club world rankings.

footballdatabase.com

I'm sorry but the rest of us need to automatically bend over backwards for the 828th best soccer team in the world?!?!?!?! Are you joking?!?!?!?! We're supposed to pretend that this is on par with the other leagues?!?! The fact of the matter is that the worst NFL team in a given year, even if they went 0-17, would still be the 32nd best football team in the world. The worst NBA team is still the 30th best basketball team in the world.

The BEST MLS team is 239th!!!!!!!!! There's a reason why the Cleveland Cavaliers draw 1.3 million for their parade compared to 20k for MLS a hop-skip-and-jump away.

So to sum it up, a high traffic area that I use regularly is set to become much worse, and a landmark historical structure taken down, so the 828th best soccer team in the world can have its own stadium.

Honestly, if anybody here is actually a fan of the team and cares about them winning or losing, it's pathetic (unless you have family on the team I guess, but even then you'd probably just care about that person). Apparently their ceiling remains outside of the Top 200. That's not what Boston sports fans are here to celebrate. I could see going to a game (once) with my kids if the tickets were free or something, but otherwise this is just an uber-crappy version of a worldwide sport.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

10/10...no notes.

 

[shmessy]

I went and got more stats for you. According to this website, the Columbus Crew, defending champions in the MLS Cup, are the 239th ranked team in the world. 239!!! 239!!!!!!!!!!!

World Football / Soccer Clubs Ranking - FootballDatabase

Manchester City from England is the best football / soccer team of the world today. Real Madrid (Spain) comes in second place while Barcelona (Spain) is third. Liverpool FC from England and Inter Milan from Italy complete the Top 5. Check out our complete club world rankings.

footballdatabase.com

The second best US team, Los Angeles FC, is 373rd in the world. Sadly this is all significantly worse than I thought in even my "biggest hater" moments.

The New England Revolution are 828th in the world, right here on page 17.

World Football / Soccer Clubs Ranking - FootballDatabase

Manchester City from England is the best football / soccer team of the world today. Real Madrid (Spain) comes in second place while Barcelona (Spain) is third. Liverpool FC from England and Inter Milan from Italy complete the Top 5. Check out our complete club world rankings.

footballdatabase.com

I'm sorry but the rest of us need to automatically bend over backwards for the 828th best soccer team in the world?!?!?!?! Are you joking?!?!?!?! We're supposed to pretend that this is on par with the other leagues?!?! The fact of the matter is that the worst NFL team in a given year, even if they went 0-17, would still be the 32nd best football team in the world. The worst NBA team is still the 30th best basketball team in the world.

The BEST MLS team is 239th!!!!!!!!! There's a reason why the Cleveland Cavaliers draw 1.3 million for their parade compared to 20k for MLS a hop-skip-and-jump away.

So to sum it up, a high traffic area that I use regularly is set to become much worse, and a landmark historical structure taken down, so the 828th best soccer team in the world can have its own stadium.

Honestly, if anybody here is actually a fan of the team and cares about them winning or losing, it's pathetic (unless you have family on the team I guess, but even then you'd probably just care about that person). Apparently their ceiling remains outside of the Top 200. That's not what Boston sports fans are here to celebrate. I could see going to a game (once) with my kids if the tickets were free or something, but otherwise this is just an uber-crappy version of a worldwide sport.

Honestly, if anybody here is actually a fan of the team and cares about them winning or losing, it's pathetic (unless you have family on the team I guess, but even then you'd probably just care about that person)

As opposed to abandoned smokestack enthusiasts? Holy shit, talk about no self awareness! Each post gets more hilarious. Really, a performance for the ages.

And btw, re: MLS? You've been sleeping a few decades, ol' timer........It's growing at a far higher clip than the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL. As Wayne Gretzky said "Skate to where the puck is going to be".

Soccer’s Growth in the U.S. Driven by Young, Diverse Audiences

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

Soccer is taking over America–and proving Apple scored the biggest win in the sports streaming wars with its $2.5 billion MLS deal

As aging sports with aging demographics head into their final innings, the playing field of the future is going to look very different from the past.

fortune.com

 

[chrisbrat]

4. Loss of landmark smokestack and other landmark industrial buildings

"Landmark" means something other than what you think it means. Golden Gate Bridge, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, La Sagrada Familia -- even the John Hancock, Pru, and Fanueil Hall -- are all landmarks. This... smokestack is absolutely not a "landmark."

You like tall structures (me, too, fwiw) -- that's been well established -- but let's dial it back a bit towards the realm of reality, yeah?

I get that you grew up with these smokestacks (me, as well) and they are distinctive for their height in a region without tons of tall or tall-ish structures, but... yeah, no.

 

[DZH22]

Whatever you all say, the fact of the matter and new #1 reason to oppose is that the Revolution are the 828th best soccer team in the world. If I were to actually go on the offensive to turn public opinion outside of this website, I would start right there.

When winning the league means you still suck on the world stage, and 239th in the world is quite sucky, it's not a major sports league. It's a minor league team with the same skill levels of watching the Lowell Spinners or something. Don't get me wrong, I went to a Spinners game and it was fun enough, but nobody there really cared about the result one way or the other.

828th in the world, but woe to me for not wanting to build a shrine to abject mediocrity that worsens traffic in an area I inhabit.

Forget the smokestack, now I'm fascinated with how this league even exists. Also, why isn't a full-sized NFL stadium "good enough" for the 828th team in the world? That's insane. What a complete boondoggle waste this all is that we're even talking about it at all.

 

[shmessy]

Whatever you all say, the fact of the matter and new #1 reason to oppose is that the Revolution are the 828th best soccer team in the world. If I were to actually go on the offensive to turn public opinion outside of this website, I would start right there.

When winning the league means you still suck on the world stage, and 239th in the world is quite sucky, it's not a major sports league. It's a minor league team with the same skill levels of watching the Lowell Spinners or something. Don't get me wrong, I went to a Spinners game and it was fun enough, but nobody there really cared about the result one way or the other.

828th in the world, but woe to me for not wanting to build a shrine to abject mediocrity that worsens traffic in an area I inhabit.

Forget the smokestack, now I'm fascinated with how this league even exists. Also, why isn't a full-sized NFL stadium "good enough" for the 828th team in the world? That's insane. What a complete boondoggle waste this all is that we're even talking about it at all.

Do it, do it!!!!!

Please go public. Stop just threatening and do it!!!!!!

 

[Charlie_mta]

There's over 10,000 vehicles that cross from Everett to Charlestown daily, with approximately 95% of those being passenger vehicles. So that's just 1 way, and even if we assumed a single passenger for every car it's still about 9,850 vs your 8,000 cited. Then of course there are some cars with passengers which would inflate that total, and we'd also have the return trips. Plus, here's an actual link to the data instead of expecting people to blindly believe your statistics. Page 5, second paragraph:

https://itdp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Everett-BRT-Playbook-Appendices_2021.pdf

The way that it seems to work in your world is that giving 1 set of unsubstantiated "facts" without making any comparisons to the rest of the data is sufficient. It isn't, even if the unsupported facts you present are correct, because it's one-sided. In this case, data shows that we'd be negatively impacting a much larger group of people than will be helped by converting normal lanes to bus lanes.



This is a really silly set of pictures. Either you significantly hamper overall mobility, or you are unable to deviate from very narrow set paths within a set schedule. For me, nothing in my life brings me the true sense of American freedom as the ability to go any direction, at any time, in my own car. I rode the subway for 4 years while working in Boston in my 20's and there were enough uncomfortable things that went on that I don't feel the need or desire to return to that lifestyle.

For something like the graphic above, I deal with some traffic yes, but get to take a direct route to where I'm going where I then find parking and become a pedestrian.

Lastly, as an aside, I can't help but feel that the same general set of people who shut down the whole state for covid are now the ones demanding that we all pack together like sardines on trains and buses.

It boils down to public policy. One policy would be that SOVs (single occupancy vehicles) rule the roost and that bus transit is just an afterthought. A policy different than that would be that bus transit takes primacy over SOVs.
I prefer the latter policy, and I would also say it is the more sustainable model to follow.

 

[kmp1284]

Do it, do it!!!!!

Please go public. Stop just threatening and do it!!!!!!

The almost universal desire to be on the opposite side of this guy would jolt soccer in Boston fifty years forward overnight.

 

[Stlin]

The fact is, NFL, NBA, NHL teams are only world champions because it's not played anywhere else. Soccer, international football whatever you call it is a global pursuit, and as a global city Boston should have a team, and we should be proud of that team. So what if MLS or the Revs aren't particularly competitive globally? They're not playing against Man City, they're playing the Houston Dynamo. It'd be like expecting the woosox to be competitive against the LA Dodgers - of course they won't be, that's why leagues exist. Other countries have lower league teams and those cities, teams and stadia do fine even when they're not in the spotlight. Leicester City fans didn't suddenly stop supporting their team in 08 just because they'd been relegated to a lower division. You still cheer for them within the bounds of their league - It's still Leicesters team, from League One all the back to the Premier League Championship and the FA Cup. The fact that there even are 800 or however many rankable football/soccer teams out there should mean that Boston *should* have a team - we deserve to participate in a global phenomenon, and the Revs deserve their own space rather than being just an afterthought to the Patriots, especially since, As of 2023, MLS generally has higher attendance per game than the NBA and NHL.

Also, just for funsies I checked other places the stadium proposal has been discussed. Boston Globe / Boston.com comments, Reddit, Twitter... As far as I can tell, zero positive mentions of the smokestacks outside of AB. Plenty of complaints about parking, traffic, lack of transit access... Not a peep about the "landmark" stacks.

 

[shawn]

I have nothing to contribute here beyond eulogizing the $5 Rev tix my 15 year-old self and friends would buy at the gate before games at Foxboro Stadium in 1996. We barely watched the actual product on the field, but it was a 10 minute walk from my house and a great way to spend $5 before anyone had a license.

I've never looked into this, but I wonder how much value to English clubs lose when they're relegated, especially from the EPL to the EFL? I bet this is the real reason we don't see relegation in the US, even though some leagues have the infrastructure/farm system to support it (especially MLB and NHL). No one drops $1billion+ on a team and then votes in a system which could see said team demoted into minor league valuations.

 

[shmessy]

The fact is, NFL, NBA, NHL teams are only world champions because it's not played anywhere else. Soccer, international football whatever you call it is a global pursuit, and as a global city Boston should have a team, and we should be proud of that team. So what if MLS or the Revs aren't particularly competitive globally? They're not playing against Man City, they're playing the Houston Dynamo. It'd be like expecting the woosox to be competitive against the LA Dodgers - of course they won't be, that's why leagues exist. Other countries have lower league teams and those cities, teams and stadia do fine even when they're not in the spotlight. Leicester City fans didn't suddenly stop supporting their team in 08 just because they'd been relegated to a lower division. You still cheer for them within the bounds of their league - It's still Leicesters team, from League One all the back to the Premier League Championship and the FA Cup. The fact that there even are 800 or however many rankable football/soccer teams out there should mean that Boston *should* have a team - we deserve to participate in a global phenomenon, and the Revs deserve their own space rather than being just an afterthought to the Patriots, especially since, As of 2023, MLS generally has higher attendance per game than the NBA and NHL.

Also, just for funsies I checked other places the stadium proposal has been discussed. Boston Globe / Boston.com comments, Reddit, Twitter... As far as I can tell, zero positive mentions of the smokestacks outside of AB. Plenty of complaints about parking, traffic, lack of transit access... Not a peep about the "landmark" stacks.

While DZ is so obsessed with soccer team rankings, he never mentions that Everett’s smokestack height is ranked behind Homer City, PA - -Homer Freaking City, Pennsylvania! THAT right there should tell you all you need to know about the central importance of fucking smokestack height.

That Homer City, it’s the Big Shoo Fly Pie. It’s international airport must be on overload.

Btw DZ, if you’ve been trolling us all along, hats off to you - - well played!!!!

 

[DZH22]

While DZ is so obsessed with soccer team rankings, he never mentions that Everett’s smokestack height is ranked behind Homer City, PA - -Homer Freaking City, Pennsylvania! THAT right there should tell you all you need to know about the central importance of fucking smokestack height.

That Homer City, it’s the Big Shoo Fly Pie. It’s international airport must be on overload.

Btw DZ, if you’ve been trolling us all along, hats off to you - - well played!!!!

Pennsylvania has smokestacks over 1000', and Hershey has Wildcat's Revenge, Fahrenheit, Skyrush and Candymonium, which I would take over a stadium or a smokestack.

Talk about opportunity cost, I'd way rather see something like this than a stadium. It's 100 miles to any good ones from here, but only about 25 to an already existing stadium!

https://www.coaster101.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/wildcats-revenge-layout-1000x563.jpg

https://rcdb.com/aablsxa

https://coasterbuzz.com/CoasterPhoto/CoasterPhotoImage/8370

 

[Stlin]

I have nothing to contribute here beyond eulogizing the $5 Rev tix my 15 year-old self and friends would buy at the gate before games at Foxboro Stadium in 1996. We barely watched the actual product on the field, but it was a 10 minute walk from my house and a great way to spend $5 before anyone had a license.

I've never looked into this, but I wonder how much value to English clubs lose when they're relegated, especially from the EPL to the EFL? I bet this is the real reason we don't see relegation in the US, even though some leagues have the infrastructure/farm system to support it (especially MLB and NHL). No one drops $1billion+ on a team and then votes in a system which could see said team demoted into minor league valuations.

A ton. Leeds United sold last year for £213m - had it not been relegated it would have been closer to £500m. But the other part of that is most of the English teams outside the premier league "franchise clubs" - Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc - aren't actually worth that much. Just look at what Leeds transacted at, or Everton. While the big 6 are worth 2-6B, a lot of EPL teams are ~£500-700m, and EFL teams seem to run around £200m. In that context, American teams are swinging way above their weight as "assets." LA FC is 15th on the list, and MLS teams comprise 19 of the top 50.

For one reason or another, including a lack of salary caps, the EPL teams don't actually print money in the same way American league sports do. Man U only had profits of about £80M in 2023, and a lot lose money every year, but a ton of very rich people see potential. Keep in mind a ton of the European clubs these days are actually at least partially owned by Americans - including 9/20 of the EPL clubs, - it's a hot investment. At least in The US, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually developed a proper promotion relegation system - but right now the USL just isn't mature enough as a Level 2 league.

 

[bigpicture7]

If the Revs / Boston does this right, the "home team" can be a fun draw regardless of how good they are at an international level. They become a cultural part of the city, especially if ticket prices are kept affordable, the venue is friendly to a range of audiences (e.g., kids/families, 20-somethings, etc), and access is quick/reasonable.

A fun English example that a friend introduced me to long ago is the Stoke-on-Trent Potters (i.e., "Stoke City"). They are a local cultural gem, even though they have often sucked and have been relegated multiple times.

Stoke City F.C. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Despite being decidedly uncool outside of their local fan base, they routinely pull 20k+ attendees/game and play in a 30,089 capacity arena:

Bet365 Stadium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Attendance: http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/stkc.htm

Now, for sure, US is not the UK when it comes to soccer, but my point more broadly is that a team doesn't need to be "great" performance-wise to be a fun cultural draw. But, on the flipside, if the experience is too expensive and too inconvenient, a sucky team will not become a cultural gem!