Radian (Dainty Dot) | 120 Kingston Street | Chinatown

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

-1 for solipsism

Self-absorbed? Gee, I hope not. It does feel like a majority of people on this site approve of height no matter the design. Maybe I'm wrong...
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Serious question. If Forest City hadn't looked to redevelop this site and the Dainty Dot was still sitting vacant and decaying, would anybody have given it a second's thought? Did anybody even realize it was there before this building was proposed?

Good question. I bet many people (most?) had never heard of it before. But does that make it less important? Maybe. We are going to lose buildings, some we love, that's the nature of cities, vibrant and evolving ones anyway. I, like many other forum members, yearn for better results.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Meh, I am ambivalent about losing the Dainty Dot. I am more sad about Filene's. I have a feeling the reconstruction / facadectomy will get VE'd out in a year or so. Heck, I am more sad that Locke-Ober closed.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

The problem with long threads is that the older posts (and protests) get lost in the "euphoria" of the cranes.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Well, Boston is trading that blank brick wall for a modern less expensive blank wall at the ground level. Did you know that? That's why most people are complaining about this project.

No I didn't know that since the renderings of 120 Kingston St. I've seen show a ground level that's hardly a blank wall! And it will be illuminated at night! Of course, renderings don't tell the whole story, I understand that! 45 Province St., now that's a blank wall seen throughout the city! I guess, armpits, that time will tell how this turns out! Right now, I'll take what we're getting on the ground floor behind the park over that damn, ruin of a brick wall that was there!
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

The 1-3 story blank wall will face the greenway. Check out the renderings again when you have time.

The retail part will face the streets.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I guess I'm one of those who are happy because one edge of this erection is rounded and glazed! No apology for that! I, for one, do not for a minute miss that damn ugly, blank, ruin of a brick wall that faced the Chinatown park extension of the Greenway! And as far as a piece of our history gone, frankly, any building that is taken down in the city is a piece of our history! Is it right? Not in every instance by a long shot! But it's what allows a city center to grow! I am sure that the original Dainty Dot building herself rose above the ruins and bones of some previous set of smaller buildings just as I'm sure that the Dainty Dot herself was the result of a straight-forward, cold, business transaction! And the original proposal for this building did, in fact, do the Dainty Dot justice, it was simply a beautiful structure that incorporated the best of the façade of Dainty Dot but the neighborhood and the BRA basically killed the design! To me, that's the biggest shame in this whole sorry episode! The Dot was probably doomed from the moment she was sliced in half to build the Central Artery through downtown Boston!

No I didn't know that since the renderings of 120 Kingston St. I've seen show a ground level that's hardly a blank wall! And it will be illuminated at night! Of course, renderings don't tell the whole story, I understand that! 45 Province St., now that's a blank wall seen throughout the city! I guess, armpits, that time will tell how this turns out! Right now, I'll take what we're getting on the ground floor behind the park over that damn, ruin of a brick wall that was there!

Is your "period" key broken? Otherwise you may want to lay off the coffee, or sugar, or coke, or whatever has you spazzing out. Just saying.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Read my last sentence, once again! I'm talking about what's going behind the park! I'm not talking about the retail area! Like I said, I don't consider it a blank wall and that time will tell how it comes out!

Ok, cool, thanks for posting that rendering!! Armpits, what you perceive as a blank wall and what I perceive as a blank wall are obviously different! The Province St. Condo building facing towards the Common, that's what I consider a blank wall and it's offensive to me!! I just don't consider the wall behind the Greenway a blank wall! It looks decorative, with texture and interest! Again, you and others disagree with me and that's fine, it's all a matter of perception!
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

^oh, I see! You only consider a building to have a blank wall if there are no windows from the ground floor to the top of the building. Not sure if the architects here will agree with you.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Self-absorbed? Gee, I hope not. It does feel like a majority of people on this site approve of height no matter the design. Maybe I'm wrong...

As far as I can tell, every actual tall building proposed in Boston have quite good designs and appear to add a lot to the city. Of course, none of them are out of the ground either.

Tell me again, when's the last time Boston actually got any height? Cause you make these accusations, but I don't remember any tall towers being built here recently. Did you know that Boston has 16 500' buildings (18 over 150m) and yet, with the recent "boom" going on, it's been over a decade since the last one? How about the 25 years and counting since a 600' building graced our skyline?

So really, where do you get off with this? There's no height here. Even European cities are getting more height than we are, by a lot. Just think, with extra height the developers wouldn't have to value engineer as much, since they have more opportunity to recoup their costs and more. Instead we're in a sick cycle of 15-25 story buildings, for years, most built with garbage material while people like you stand on your soapbox and decry those of us hoping for something better for our city. We haven't had a 400' building in almost 10 years and you're ranting about height mongering..... You're as stale as our skyline.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Meh, I am ambivalent about losing the Dainty Dot. I am more sad about Filene's. I have a feeling the reconstruction / facadectomy will get VE'd out in a year or so. Heck, I am more sad that Locke-Ober closed.

Agreed re: Filene's. I can't even look at the thread about Millennium/Filene's it so disappoints me. This will part of Menino's legacy. Do we have another Burnham in Boston? I don't think so. Feel the loss of Locke-Ober as well. And the possible loss of SCL would also be painful.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Re: DZH22. I am certainly stale, guilty as charged. And old school, and probably stuck in my ways.

I differ with you, however, sir, about the nature of our skyline. (And likely many other things as well. Civility being another.)

I think we have one of the best skyline's in the US. (Groans from the gallery at this, no doubt!) We don't look nearly as generic as so many other cities in this country. You pause and think - what city is that tower in - oh yeah, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston. I don't mean to damn these cities, there are sections in each of them I admire. But so what. Walk around these cities where these tall building live and the street-life sucks. Houston, Atlanta, name the place - the best places where people hang out end up being the low-rise sections.

I don't give a damn about going high unless it appropriate, well conceived, and adds to the cityscape. If that makes me stale, the I'm month old moldy bread.

Other cities would give their left "tit" to have what we have. And it ain't our height they want. Why are we so anxious to compare ourselves to our lesser cousins. It's like what our fathers and grandfather's suffered with - New York-envy.

My only real point: please, mayor, BRA, don't fuck up my city.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I think we have one of the best skyline's in the US. (Groans from the gallery at this, no doubt!) We don't look nearly as generic as so many other cities in this country. You pause and think - what city is that tower in - oh yeah, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Houston. I don't mean to damn these cities, there are sections in each of them I admire. But so what. Walk around these cities where these tall building live and the street-life sucks. Houston, Atlanta, name the place - the best places where people hang out end up being the low-rise sections.

Pittsburgh actually has a pretty nice cityscape. Southern cities don't stack up to northern cities at all in this regard. However, why bring them up at all and ignore my mention of European cities? Isn't Boston considered the most European city in the US? (and for good reason)

European cities that have built at least a 600'+ tower in the last 3-5 years include: London (many, even one over 1000'), Paris (multiple), Madrid (4 Hancock sized towers), Vienna (finishing up a 700'+), Warsaw (Zlota 44, awesome, more on the way), Frankfurt (multiple), Milan (1 so far to the spire, but more U/C right now), Istanbul (many), Moscow (huge "supertall" cluster, basically all Hancock-sized or bigger), and Benidorm (ugly/gross but almost done).

Other European cities that have been adding height in the last few years (much taller than anything Boston has built, at least 450') include Rotterdam, The Hague, Kiev, Seville, Bilbao, Manchester UK (in 2006 but still semi recent), Yekaterinburg, Grozny, St. Petersburg (with a supertall on the way), Wroclaw.... heck even Rome sneaks onto this list.

It seems like all of these cities realized that building up is the most efficient way to utilize their remaining space. Over here, we have studies warning that areas such as Kendall could run out of room completely in the next few years if we keep emphasizing the horizontal over the vertical. So let's substitute all of these cities for the Atlanta's and Houston's you seem to think best fit your argument, and feel free to defend your position.

By the way, you're right, I'm not always the most civil person in the world. Whenever a large project in Boston finally gets out of the ground (hardly happens now does it) here's a clip that best illustrates what I wish I could do to everybody who stood in the way:
http://www.anyclip.com/movies/lethal-weapon-3/jack-travis/#!quotes/
Good stuff huh? All of the letdowns Boston has put me through over the years have transformed me into a rampaging lunatic. I mean, not really, but I'm probably just a couple years away from dying of a brain aneurysm if none of these 600 footers get out of the ground. The past is great and should be preserved as much as possible, but we deserve some more 21st century shit to be proud of, and it shouldn't be a one-or-the-other proposition like some of you continuously insinuate.

Unless you think Boston is a special kind of "better" than not just American (or Chinese/Asian) cities, but also all European cities, Canadian cities, Australian cities, South American cities, Latin American cities... Many of these have as much or (significantly) more history than we do, and they all joined the 21st century.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

DZH22 just proved NM88's point. Height seems to be the only thing that matters to him.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

DZH22 just proved NM88's point. Height seems to be the only thing that matters to him.

Height is the only thing that will alter Boston's incredibly stale skyline. The rest matters and I don't want it to be at the expense of historical buildings. However, our 4 tallest buildings have been the same since the 70's while it seems a solid 10+ proposals to at least get into the top 3 have all failed to get out of the ground (or failed completely).

It seems clear that forumers like joebos and nm88 don't care that the majority of major projects slated for Boston end up failing, whether by NIMBY's or regulations or the FAA or just plain bad luck, although it doesn't help when buildings are forced to jump through hoops for years and years and years while construction costs skyrocket (think Columbus Center). If one large tower can get out of the ground, it sets the precedent for more to follow. If one major project can finally span a portion of the pike, it sets a precedent there. If every new building is to be capped at 300' and value engineered to hell, then there's a nasty little precedent that I don't think does our city justice. Yet, that's where we are. Shouldn't this building have been better? Wasn't the original (taller) proposal considered significantly better? Isn't downtown at a premium for space, where height actually makes sense?

Apparently some forumers are happy that anything gets built at all, and are appeased completely by the growth surrounding the city's core. I appreciate all that growth too, but yes I yearn for something more, for some of the most promising projects to finally come to fruition.

Also, just for the record, if height was the only thing I cared about I wouldn't rank Portland as the #2 downtown in New England, or think Asheville had the best downtown in NC, or hate Charlotte with a fiery passion, or continue to tout Boston as the greatest city in the US. I care about a lot of things regarding urbanity. It's just in this case I have been height deprived for a few (promising, tantalizing) years too many, and I'm hitting my boiling point.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

^ Black and white thinking on your part. They dont want tall buildings = they agree with the NIMBYS... What a bullshit way of thinking. It's more nuanced than that. I'm not going to bother responding. You're a very simple-minded person.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

^ Black and white thinking on your part. I'm not going to bother responding. You're a very simple-minded person.

Yeah? That's why I write paragraphs defending my positions, while you make blanket single statement judgments about a person's entire belief system?

Try looking in a mirror for some black and white thinking. I wouldn't bother responding either, since that might require thought and research, which don't seem to be your strong points based on your previous posts.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Hey dude, you said this:

"It seems clear that forumers like joebos and nm88 don't care that the majority of major projects slated for Boston end up failing,..."

Again, I'm not bothering. You're a joke.
 
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Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Both the back-and-forth and the overuse of exclamation points could stand to take a break.
 

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