Radian (Dainty Dot) | 120 Kingston Street | Chinatown
- Thread starter PaulC
- Start date
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
regardless, the reduction in parking to unit ratio is generally considered a good thing and reduces the costs associated with development significantly (i think shoup calculated it as being 10k per above ground spot and 20k per underground?)
regardless, the reduction in parking to unit ratio is generally considered a good thing and reduces the costs associated with development significantly (i think shoup calculated it as being 10k per above ground spot and 20k per underground?)
fattony
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,099
- Reaction score
- 480
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
Would it seem strange in New York? Even rich people live without cars there.
Boston is livable without a car, for those that want to. That livability is improving all the time. Easy access to parking induces demand for car ownership. Conversely low availability of parking induces demand for dense, livable, complete neighborhoods.
Would it seem strange in New York? Even rich people live without cars there.
Boston is livable without a car, for those that want to. That livability is improving all the time. Easy access to parking induces demand for car ownership. Conversely low availability of parking induces demand for dense, livable, complete neighborhoods.
KentXie
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,189
- Reaction score
- 750
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
Do people in Boston need a car? No. Does that mean that people shouldn't own a car? No. Where are people in the forum getting the idea that just because public transportation is nearby, then people should not have cars?
What happens if the person works in a place not reachable without a car? What happens if the person works as marketing employee that needs to travel frequently to an from places that may or may not have access to transportation? What happens if a person needs a car because they often pick up friends or coworkers or family members to get to places?
You may say, why not get a ZipCar account or something. Well, why should they be restricted to that option? What happens if a person needs a car to travel to another place and have to stay there for multiple days for reasons such as business?
I mean, I don't need to get a car to get around Boston but will I be getting one? Hell yes. Why? Because I don't want to take a mediocre bus that comes every 20 minutes or 40 minutes during the weekend. I want to go to places like Nantasket Beach on the weekend instead of being restricted on the weekday. I want to be able to job hunt for companies out in the suburbs. I want to be able to pick up my friends and go on road trips. I don't want to have to walk 15 minutes after dropping off my grocery because the zipcar drop off space is away from where I live. I want to be able to drive home quickly (in less than 15 minutes) after going to the gym instead of taking the train and transferring to a bus (about 45 min+). And if I'm going to pay millions of dollars for a condo, you bet your ass I better have a parking space.
Do people in Boston need a car? No. Does that mean that people shouldn't own a car? No. Where are people in the forum getting the idea that just because public transportation is nearby, then people should not have cars?
What happens if the person works in a place not reachable without a car? What happens if the person works as marketing employee that needs to travel frequently to an from places that may or may not have access to transportation? What happens if a person needs a car because they often pick up friends or coworkers or family members to get to places?
You may say, why not get a ZipCar account or something. Well, why should they be restricted to that option? What happens if a person needs a car to travel to another place and have to stay there for multiple days for reasons such as business?
I mean, I don't need to get a car to get around Boston but will I be getting one? Hell yes. Why? Because I don't want to take a mediocre bus that comes every 20 minutes or 40 minutes during the weekend. I want to go to places like Nantasket Beach on the weekend instead of being restricted on the weekday. I want to be able to job hunt for companies out in the suburbs. I want to be able to pick up my friends and go on road trips. I don't want to have to walk 15 minutes after dropping off my grocery because the zipcar drop off space is away from where I live. I want to be able to drive home quickly (in less than 15 minutes) after going to the gym instead of taking the train and transferring to a bus (about 45 min+). And if I'm going to pay millions of dollars for a condo, you bet your ass I better have a parking space.
fattony
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,099
- Reaction score
- 480
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
No one said people shouldn't own a car. I just argued that it is not crazy to build a building across the street from South Station that has 0.3 spaces per unit. A person who needs or wants a car won't choose to live in a place without parking. A person who doesn't need or want a car can live at 120 Kingston. The building doesn't have to be perfect for everyone, just for the people who choose to live there.
And I refer you again to New York for evidence of demand for luxury apartments without parking. It is not crazy that there are customers for this building.
No one said people shouldn't own a car. I just argued that it is not crazy to build a building across the street from South Station that has 0.3 spaces per unit. A person who needs or wants a car won't choose to live in a place without parking. A person who doesn't need or want a car can live at 120 Kingston. The building doesn't have to be perfect for everyone, just for the people who choose to live there.
And I refer you again to New York for evidence of demand for luxury apartments without parking. It is not crazy that there are customers for this building.
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
Building parking spaces in a garage costs ~$25,000 aboveground and over twice that belowground, typically. Varies a lot due to site conditions.
Kent, nobody is telling them that they can't have a car. They are more than welcome to rent a parking space in one of the numerous garage options around them. Someone who spends a million dollars on a condo won't even blink at the price of a garage space.
What's nice is that they are not being FORCED to pay for a parking space if they don't want one. What we are saying is that with good public transportation around, nobody should be forced to pay for a parking space if they don't want one.
And it's completely dishonest to whine about a "bus that comes every 20 minutes" when we're talking about a location next to South Station within easy walking distance of FOUR subway lines.
Get a grip. You are starting to sound like one of those completely insane NIMBYs.
Building parking spaces in a garage costs ~$25,000 aboveground and over twice that belowground, typically. Varies a lot due to site conditions.
Kent, nobody is telling them that they can't have a car. They are more than welcome to rent a parking space in one of the numerous garage options around them. Someone who spends a million dollars on a condo won't even blink at the price of a garage space.
What's nice is that they are not being FORCED to pay for a parking space if they don't want one. What we are saying is that with good public transportation around, nobody should be forced to pay for a parking space if they don't want one.
And it's completely dishonest to whine about a "bus that comes every 20 minutes" when we're talking about a location next to South Station within easy walking distance of FOUR subway lines.
Get a grip. You are starting to sound like one of those completely insane NIMBYs.
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,678
- Reaction score
- 1,482
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
The potential problems with not providing enough parking spaces for tenants is that they will rely on street parking, which reduces availability of spaces for existing neighborhood residents, or if they park in private garages, which are fixed in number, then demand for parking can drive up the price of parking for everyone.
I recall reading that a parking space at Tremont on the Common was for sale for about $80,000 per, so at those kind of prices, the developer could have build underground parking and made money off the sales of spaces.
The original building, or perhaps it is better to describe it as the original fantasy, could have been marketed to rich Chinese nationals, who are buying high-end property in the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/b...rsue-us-real-estate-deals.html?pagewanted=all
The current reality, not so much.
The potential problems with not providing enough parking spaces for tenants is that they will rely on street parking, which reduces availability of spaces for existing neighborhood residents, or if they park in private garages, which are fixed in number, then demand for parking can drive up the price of parking for everyone.
I recall reading that a parking space at Tremont on the Common was for sale for about $80,000 per, so at those kind of prices, the developer could have build underground parking and made money off the sales of spaces.
The original building, or perhaps it is better to describe it as the original fantasy, could have been marketed to rich Chinese nationals, who are buying high-end property in the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/b...rsue-us-real-estate-deals.html?pagewanted=all
The current reality, not so much.
armpitsOFmight
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2009
- Messages
- 870
- Reaction score
- 12
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
rich NYC'ers own cars.
rich NYC'ers own cars.
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
Minimum parking requirements are a terrible way to "solve" spillover parking. Especially downtown. First of all, there's no guarantee that they work. Second, they turn more of the neighborhood into a parking lot. Third, it adds more traffic to the streets. Fourth, it forces non-car owners to subsidize car owners.
But, aside, you really think somebody that wealthy is going to park their precious BMW on a Chinatown street? There's plenty of garage space in Chinatown already.
Minimum parking requirements are a terrible way to "solve" spillover parking. Especially downtown. First of all, there's no guarantee that they work. Second, they turn more of the neighborhood into a parking lot. Third, it adds more traffic to the streets. Fourth, it forces non-car owners to subsidize car owners.
But, aside, you really think somebody that wealthy is going to park their precious BMW on a Chinatown street? There's plenty of garage space in Chinatown already.
fattony
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,099
- Reaction score
- 480
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
Not all of them and not by a long shot.
25% of Manhattan households own a car.
The top 25% of Manhattan household incomes are above about $170,000.
Even if all the cars are owned by only the richest people, that leaves a couple hundred thousand households who make over 6 figures without cars.
Not all of them and not by a long shot.
25% of Manhattan households own a car.
The top 25% of Manhattan household incomes are above about $170,000.
Even if all the cars are owned by only the richest people, that leaves a couple hundred thousand households who make over 6 figures without cars.
AmericanFolkLegend
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 2,209
- Reaction score
- 241
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
I'm close friends with two yuppie couples that live in Manhattan. Both are dual income households that I'd guess make high-six to low-seven-figures combined. One couple also has two children. Neither own cars. It's only anecdotal, but it's the only anecdotes I've got.
And +1 on Matthew's comments about parking minimums.
I'm close friends with two yuppie couples that live in Manhattan. Both are dual income households that I'd guess make high-six to low-seven-figures combined. One couple also has two children. Neither own cars. It's only anecdotal, but it's the only anecdotes I've got.
And +1 on Matthew's comments about parking minimums.
armpitsOFmight
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2009
- Messages
- 870
- Reaction score
- 12
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
^Well, I guess I'll counteract that with this:
My ex GF's family lives next to Shibuya in Tokyo (so they're rich). Her father and brother both own cars and use it way more than the subway.
^Well, I guess I'll counteract that with this:
My ex GF's family lives next to Shibuya in Tokyo (so they're rich). Her father and brother both own cars and use it way more than the subway.
KentXie
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,189
- Reaction score
- 750
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
I'm just giving a general reason why some people may want a car, not necessarily about this project.
I'm just giving a general reason why some people may want a car, not necessarily about this project.
I'm not but I've seen some members argue in the forum that parking is not needed because of the available public transportation, as if the only reason why people may need to use a car is to get to point A to point B. I'm not saying the ratio is weird, in fact I think it's fine, but I don't think it's weird to want more parking per unit. Forgive me for the outburst.
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
No problem Kent, we all get that way sometimes.
One thing I will say about car owners in Tokyo: you know they are paying much more of their own way for their car. There's no spillover parking because there's almost no non-short term street parking. They have to prove they have a parking space to register their car. And they don't subsidize auto infrastructure like they do here.
No problem Kent, we all get that way sometimes.
One thing I will say about car owners in Tokyo: you know they are paying much more of their own way for their car. There's no spillover parking because there's almost no non-short term street parking. They have to prove they have a parking space to register their car. And they don't subsidize auto infrastructure like they do here.
fattony
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,099
- Reaction score
- 480
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
I did not know any of those things about Tokyo. Fascinating!
I did not know any of those things about Tokyo. Fascinating!
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown
While I'm not completely sold on the glassy side, I can at least say with absolute certainty that it looks 1000 times better than the Kensington's glass side. Although, it doesn't get more bottom of the barrel than that.
While I'm not completely sold on the glassy side, I can at least say with absolute certainty that it looks 1000 times better than the Kensington's glass side. Although, it doesn't get more bottom of the barrel than that.