Radian (Dainty Dot) | 120 Kingston Street | Chinatown

[Shepard]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Dewey Square is far and away the best thing to come out of the Greenway. Contrary to what some say, this isn't just a 9-5 plaza, and 120 Kingston will help that along further.

Now if only they would get rid of the redundant ramps on the Purchase Street side so the plaza could really open into the Financial District.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

No one said people shouldn't own a car. I just argued that it is not crazy to build a building across the street from South Station that has 0.3 spaces per unit. A person who needs or wants a car won't choose to live in a place without parking. A person who doesn't need or want a car can live at 120 Kingston. The building doesn't have to be perfect for everyone, just for the people who choose to live there.

And I refer you again to New York for evidence of demand for luxury apartments without parking. It is not crazy that there are customers for this building.

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car? Sure, they could walk to the Whole Foods on Cambridge Street but that's not very realistic to carry groceries back from there. You cannot compare NYC and Boston when it comes to livability without a vehicle. It's just silly. Maybe in 5-10 years things will be different. Is it possible to live somewhere like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Just not very practical for most at the moment.

 

[cden4]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

They could go to Super 88 literally across the street.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car? Sure, they could walk to the Whole Foods on Cambridge Street but that's not very realistic to carry groceries back from there. You cannot compare NYC and Boston when it comes to livability without a vehicle. It's just silly. Maybe in 5-10 years things will be different. Is it possible to live somewhere like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Just not very practical for most at the moment.

How would someone who lives in Davis Square do their grocery shopping without a car? They could walk to the Shaws in Porter. Walk back or take the Red Line back. Do more frequent/smaller shops to make the loads manageable. I did this when I lived in Davis without a car.

Kingston is only a slightly longer walk to Whole Foods on Cambridge Street, depending on your path. You can take the Red Line back if you don't want to walk. Alternatively you can have your shop delivered to you (not sure how far they deliver, but their website says you can inquire about it at the store).
Furthermore, apparently a Roche Bros. is moving into Downtown Crossing. Easy peasy.

 

[choo]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Also, Whole foods in the Ink Block, Supermarket in North Station to come, plus there is a supermarket right at JFK/UMass already. No matter what tho, the threshold for downtown parking allocation should not be how is someone going to do two weeks worth of grocery shopping for a family of 5 without somewhere to park.

 

[Hutchison]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car? Sure, they could walk to the Whole Foods on Cambridge Street but that's not very realistic to carry groceries back from there. You cannot compare NYC and Boston when it comes to livability without a vehicle. It's just silly. Maybe in 5-10 years things will be different. Is it possible to live somewhere like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Just not very practical for most at the moment.

If roche bros. goes into Filenes then that would be less than a .3 mile walk. The whole foods scheduled to go into Ink Block in at probably just over .5 miles. Further (although unlikely to be frequented by 120 Kingston residents) there is a chinese grocer right across the street at Lincoln/Tufts.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car? Sure, they could walk to the Whole Foods on Cambridge Street but that's not very realistic to carry groceries back from there. You cannot compare NYC and Boston when it comes to livability without a vehicle. It's just silly. Maybe in 5-10 years things will be different. Is it possible to live somewhere like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Just not very practical for most at the moment.

One could embrace the urban lifestyle and go to one of the many markets in the area and not worry about going to a supermarket once a week to stock up on everything.

A quick walk, even with a few bags groceries:
Sagarino's, C-Mart, Lambert's, Super 88, plenty of small Chinatown shops, lots of stands in/around DTX/South Station.

And Whole Foods would not be bad walk with a bag of groceries

EDIT: A family of 5 should have anywhere from 3 to 5 people capable of carrying groceries!

 

[JoeBoston1]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car?

This may be news to you, but every weekend, thousands of people hoard that area to buy Asian groceries. They drive their cars into four blocks of urban gridlock to buy groceries from the markets in that area.

The C-Mart that is literally across the street from the Dainty Dot is unusable during weekends.



Others have mentioned this, but you seem to be in the weekly-grocery-purchase mindset. This is customary in the USA.

In Europe, groceries are purchased daily. The market is located 15 minutes by foot in the city-center. Buying your groceries everyday means you have very fresh food, and you only need to carry enough food for one day, which is about 1.5 shopping bags for a family of four. You can lug it home, but most people use a fold-up granny shopping cart.

 

[cca]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

In Europe,

Or Cambridge in my opinion.

 

[davem]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

How would someone who lives in the Dainty Dot do their grocery shopping without a car?

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious how people cant fathom living without a car. I got rid of my car (again) last year, and I live in Brighton, which is far worse for walkability than Chinatown.

1) You go every day, or every other day. I plan what I'm having for dinner that day and grab my veggies on the way home.

2) Get a bike with a basket. I've hauled shopping cart fulls on my bike with a milk crate and my two arms.

3) Granny cart

4) Peapod

5) When you need to get your monthly supply of caned goods, toilet paper, detergent, paper towels, etc, you either rent a zipcar or go with a friend (or group of friends) with a car and stock up.


Its really easy. And you have fresher produce. And you require less storage space in you kitchen (I cook from scratch every night and only need a single cabinet for dry and canned goods). Since you dont require the "convenience" of a supermarket, you are free to hit up farmers markets and ethnic markets as part of your routine, supporting local business and eating healthier at the same time. As already mentioned, its scaleable with family size. There is no reason Sally can't grab a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk on the way home from school. What I can't fathom living the way my mom does, planning out meals two weeks in advance, having to haul it all into the house and put it away, and then risking it going bad if you miss a meal or dont feel like cooking.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

If roche bros. goes into Filenes then that would be less than a .3 mile walk. The whole foods scheduled to go into Ink Block in at probably just over .5 miles. Further (although unlikely to be frequented by 120 Kingston residents) there is a chinese grocer right across the street at Lincoln/Tufts.

all of these proposed supermarkets are completely irrelevant to the question of whether someone can currently comfortably live in a location like the Dainty Dot without a car. A supermarket that might be complete in 2-4 years is not helpful to people who want to live there now. And did someone really suggest the Super 88 Mart as a viable alternative to a full size grocery store? That's laughable and I actually shop at the market a few times a month.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious how people cant fathom living without a car. I got rid of my car (again) last year, and I live in Brighton, which is far worse for walkability than Chinatown.

1) You go every day, or every other day. I plan what I'm having for dinner that day and grab my veggies on the way home.

2) Get a bike with a basket. I've hauled shopping cart fulls on my bike with a milk crate and my two arms.

3) Granny cart

4) Peapod

5) When you need to get your monthly supply of caned goods, toilet paper, detergent, paper towels, etc, you either rent a zipcar or go with a friend (or group of friends) with a car and stock up.


Its really easy. And you have fresher produce. And you require less storage space in you kitchen (I cook from scratch every night and only need a single cabinet for dry and canned goods). Since you dont require the "convenience" of a supermarket, you are free to hit up farmers markets and ethnic markets as part of your routine, supporting local business and eating healthier at the same time. As already mentioned, its scaleable with family size. There is no reason Sally can't grab a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk on the way home from school. What I can't fathom living the way my mom does, planning out meals two weeks in advance, having to haul it all into the house and put it away, and then risking it going bad if you miss a meal or dont feel like cooking.

1) some people have jobs and family obligations that make going to the grocery store every day a completely unrealistic option. That is fantastic that your schedule allows for 30 minutes roundtrip of walking to a grocery store each and every day.

2) Not everyone likes riding bikes downtown (especially bikes filled with groceries) when streets are narrow and drivers are, at best, aggressive and indifferent to those on bicycles. Winter weather is also an impediment to doing your grocery shopping by bike.

3) Grany carts can work but not everyone can push one full of groceries for 30 minutes.

4) Peapod? Sorry, I like to pick my own fish, meats, fruits and vegetables and I like to see how thick/thin they are slicing my deli meats and politely ask them to adjust thickness if necessary.

5) this proposition assumes everyone has the space to store months supplies of paper towels, toilet paper, etc. I know when I lived downtown, closet/pantry space was at a premium and I also wished I had the space to stock up on things.

Once again, is it possible to live in a place like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Is it realistic for most? Not yet but hopefully that changes.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

1) some people have jobs and family obligations that make going to the grocery store every day a completely unrealistic option. That is fantastic that your schedule allows for 30 minutes roundtrip of walking to a grocery store each and every day.

2) Not everyone likes riding bikes downtown (especially bikes filled with groceries) when streets are narrow and drivers are, at best, aggressive and indifferent to those on bicycles. Winter weather is also an impediment to doing your grocery shopping by bike.

3) Grany carts can work but not everyone can push one full of groceries for 30 minutes.

4) Peapod? Sorry, I like to pick my own fish, meats, fruits and vegetables and I like to see how thick/thin they are slicing my deli meats and politely ask them to adjust thickness if necessary.

5) this proposition assumes everyone has the space to store months supplies of paper towels, toilet paper, etc. I know when I lived downtown, closet/pantry space was at a premium and I also wished I had the space to stock up on things.

Once again, is it possible to live in a place like Dainty Dot without a car? Sure. Is it realistic for most? Not yet but hopefully that changes.

So you're ascribing MOST people to be in the situation that you're describing rather than alternative scenarios... Based on what? Thousands of people live without them, and they'll get along just fine.

You don't sound like someone who wants the small spaces and tight schedules of city living. There are plenty of people who do.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Davem clearly has a lot of time and nothing to do all day.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Davem clearly has a lot of time and nothing to do all day.

Then there are those damn commuters who just happen to have HOURS of time in their days to sit in traffic driving home. Imagine the productivity of those hours if they just lived in the city! /snark

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

begin snark/

I live in walking distance of 3 grocery stores and I still get groceries that will last me a week. Who the hell has time to shop 30 minutes - 1 hour a day? You blokes are comparing us to Europe? Are you aware of the growing anti-semitism in your beautiful land of failing socialists?

end snark/

 

[fattony]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I have many busy professional friends who don't grocery shop. Ever. They eat out every meal, every day. Their fridges and cupboards are empty except for a box of cereal and a 6 pack. And I'm not talking about 24 year old bachelors fresh from the dorms. I'm talking about singles and couples in their 30's who live in the Back Bay and Beacon Hill. The very same people a building like this is built for.

Whoever financed this building is pretty damn sure they are going to find customers. For Pete's sake - there are only 240 units to sell! Its not like everyone has to live in this building.

 

[davem]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

1) some people have jobs and family obligations that make going to the grocery store every day a completely unrealistic option. That is fantastic that your schedule allows for 30 minutes roundtrip of walking to a grocery store each and every day.

Why the hell would you go round trip, that makes no sense. You just stop at a store on the way home. Unless people work in the exact same neighborhood they live in, chances are pretty good you're passing at least one market. On the way back from the back bay to brighton I pass four supermarkets, and god knows how many smaller markets. If anything it saves time, because you aren't blowing your weekend shopping all day.

2) Not everyone likes riding bikes downtown (especially bikes filled with groceries) when streets are narrow and drivers are, at best, aggressive and indifferent to those on bicycles. Winter weather is also an impediment to doing your grocery shopping by bike.

My first response to this is always "have you ever ridden a bike in the city?" Because it's very, very rare that someone who has ever thinks this way. I'm particularly suspicious since you seem to think that carrying a load has any effect on the rideability. Except for the extra weight trying to get up a hill, it makes no difference whatsoever.

3) Grany carts can work but not everyone can push one full of groceries for 30 minutes.

Lol, they are called granny carts. My arthritis ridden overweight grandmother managed to push one four miles almost every day up until a week before she died. The only difference between her and your typical old person is that she grew up in europe, where people manage to get the mail from the end of the driveway without getting in their car.

4) Peapod? Sorry, I like to pick my own fish, meats, fruits and vegetables and I like to see how thick/thin they are slicing my deli meats and politely ask them to adjust thickness if necessary.

These are the things you buy on the way home from work, as needed. Peapod for canned goods, pasta, drinks, paper goods?

5) this proposition assumes everyone has the space to store months supplies of paper towels, toilet paper, etc. I know when I lived downtown, closet/pantry space was at a premium and I also wished I had the space to stock up on things.

But you had room for a weeks worth of groceries? You really didn't have a cabinet under your bathroom sink for a 24 pack of toilet paper, and under the kitchen for paper towels?

Its unrealistic to think that you need a car to get by. And yet that's what we've been driven to believe.

 

[fattony]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Are you aware of the growing anti-semitism in your beautiful land of failing socialists?

Dude - I don't know what can of worms you are trying to open, but you should stop. Off-topic comments happen, but that has nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

 

[davem]

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Davem clearly has a lot of time and nothing to do all day.

I've been doing freelance work from home. I'm on my computer all day and have the freedom to work at any time (usually between 2pm and 2am). Having archboston up on one of my three monitors isn't really much of a distraction. Especially when the majority of my time lately has been sitting doing nothing while my computer chuggs out renderings. If you mean everything I just described, I get all that done when I'm out visiting clients.


Also, how retarded are you that it takes you a half to a full hour to grab the three things you need for dinner that evening? Especially if you are going to the market daily and know the layout of your store well, it typically takes me 15 minutes tops, most of which is spent checking prices.