Reasonable Transit Pitches

bigeman312 said:
Absolutely!

But the claim was "Porter is the highest used of the non terminus commuter rail stops ... besides back bay" which was the case until a few years. Ruggles has surpassed Porter in CR ridership and is now 4th in ridership behind SS/NS/BBY.
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Yep you're right, I stand corrected.

Porter is also a good option for Fitchburg riders working near South Station and the Seaport, not just Cambridge.
 
Porter-SS is 25 minutes on the RL according to the trip planner. That's on top of how long the CR ride is.

Not saying people don't do it, but it would be nerve racking in the PM trying to consistently make the CR train.
 
jklo said:
Porter-SS is 25 minutes on the RL according to the trip planner. That's on top of how long the CR ride is.

Not saying people don't do it, but it would be nerve racking in the PM trying to consistently make the CR train.
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I have coworkers who commute in every day by taking the Fitchburg Line to Porter, switching to Red, and taking that to DTX. If you live along the Fitchburg Line and work near South Station your best two options are Fitchburg->Porter->Red or drive to Alewife->Red.
 
jklo said:
Porter-SS is 25 minutes on the RL according to the trip planner. That's on top of how long the CR ride is.

Not saying people don't do it, but it would be nerve racking in the PM trying to consistently make the CR train.
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It's a 20 min walk from north station to the financial district anyway.

And the red has more capacity at Porter than the orange has at North Station (can't get on between 8-9).

Personally I hop onto the green when it's cold (usually winter mornings) but walk when it's nicer out. I work by DTX.
 
Alright here's my reasonable transit pitch:

North Station is waterfront, South Station is waterfront, South Boston Waterfront is (you guessed it) waterfront. Lets use the completely uncongested waterways to our advantage. Very low capital cost, needs a few boats, a couple docks and a new pedestrian walkway at N Station. Way lower cost than new underground transit lines between Nstation and Sstation. North Station to South Boston Waterfront is a painful connection but thousands of commuters do it. Easily 30 minutes/three transit lines if you want to avoid walking too far. Once South Station expansion happens there should be direct waterfront access to S Station. An effective ferry (see London) would easily outpace the silver line.

Hell, add in a link to Logan airport once the automated people mover is in place at Logan and never deal with the i93 SL1 tunnel traffic. Based on the current ferry time tables it could do S Station to Logan in under 15 minutes, consistently, regardless of time of day or traffic.

We are surrounded by water in Boston, I think there are a bunch of potential ferry routes that could be implemented where demand clearly already exists. Are there potential issues? Sure, weather and ferries don't always mix, but its definitely do-able and we current manage to run ferries.
 
They have started a ferry between Longjoy Wharf and the Seaport. It's a private ferry though, paid for by businesses in the seaport.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Alright here's my reasonable transit pitch:

North Station is waterfront, South Station is waterfront, South Boston Waterfront is (you guessed it) waterfront. Lets use the completely uncongested waterways to our advantage. Very low capital cost, needs a few boats, a couple docks and a new pedestrian walkway at N Station. Way lower cost than new underground transit lines between Nstation and Sstation. North Station to South Boston Waterfront is a painful connection but thousands of commuters do it. Easily 30 minutes/three transit lines if you want to avoid walking too far. Once South Station expansion happens there should be direct waterfront access to S Station. An effective ferry (see London) would easily outpace the silver line.

Hell, add in a link to Logan airport once the automated people mover is in place at Logan and never deal with the i93 SL1 tunnel traffic. Based on the current ferry time tables it could do S Station to Logan in under 15 minutes, consistently, regardless of time of day or traffic.

We are surrounded by water in Boston, I think there are a bunch of potential ferry routes that could be implemented where demand clearly already exists. Are there potential issues? Sure, weather and ferries don't always mix, but its definitely do-able and we current manage to run ferries.
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I really like this. One question: does Boston harbor freeze enough in the winter to hamper ferries during that time?
 
The problem with the Ferries is that they can't go all that fast and loading and unloading is slow. That's why Long Wharf - Logan is 15 minutes.

But yeah a SS - Logan Airport ferry would likely beat the Silver Line.
 
jklo said:
The problem with the Ferries is that they can't go all that fast and loading and unloading is slow. That's why Long Wharf - Logan is 15 minutes.

But yeah a SS - Logan Airport ferry would likely beat the Silver Line.
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Issue is that a ferry can't drop you off at the terminal.
 
jklo said:
The problem with the Ferries is that they can't go all that fast and loading and unloading is slow. That's why Long Wharf - Logan is 15 minutes.

But yeah a SS - Logan Airport ferry would likely beat the Silver Line.
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The other problem with ferries is that their catchment stinks. Riders have to walk all the way to the water’s edge which is generally not “on the way” to anything so you really have to count it in the travel time. Plus when you draw a catchment circle around a dock, you catch a lot of water. Even near dense nodes like NS and SS, the catchment problem means there are very few people for whom the ferry would be the best option. That’s not to say that a ferry is never a good idea, it’s just a very rare set of origin/destination pairs that are well served by ferry.
 
Charlie_mta said:
I really like this. One question: does Boston harbor freeze enough in the winter to hamper ferries during that time?
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Parts of the Harbor do, though less so where there's big shipping traffic. Hingham ferry fares pretty well in part because it sticks to a lot of major shipping lanes, while some of the Harbor Island docks are simply unusable a portion of the winter.

You'd have to consult NOAA/Coast Guard/etc. historical ice maps for the Harbor, because it's very variable by location and severity/duration of weather conditions. I don't recall the downtown wharves ever getting all that iced over, but Dorchester Bay froze solid during the hell winter of '15 so it's possible shipping lanes could've been pinched near the outer extent of icepack.
 






London Route MAP
London has a "commuter ferry" that manages frequent quick stops without making the journey take forever. Its all about designing the stops for quick access, preferably no reversing, and quality boats.

clipper.jpg
 
I don't see the need for a South Station to Seaport ferry, or even a North Station to South Station one. Most of the Seaport is an easy walk from South Station, and parts that aren't have the Silver Line.

For the North/South station connection it's not exactly needed when all of the Amtrak trains stop at Back Bay (which has an easy connection on the Orange). Though on the other hand it would be nice for people who live on the North Side but commute to South Station.

Of course the NSRL would be best, but I digress.

From North Station yes there is a need. I'd also add some new Logan ferries.
 
tysmith95 said:
I don't see the need for a South Station to Seaport ferry, or even a North Station to South Station one. Most of the Seaport is an easy walk from South Station, and parts that aren't have the Silver Line.

For the North/South station connection it's not exactly needed when all of the Amtrak trains stop at Back Bay (which has an easy connection on the Orange). Though on the other hand it would be nice for people who live on the North Side but commute to South Station.

Of course the NSRL would be best, but I digress.

From North Station yes there is a need. I'd also add some new Logan ferries.
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I'd argue there is a fair number of people coming from the North trying to get to South Station and the Seaport which is the big demand I think the MTBA is missing out on... I would also argue that the Silver Line in its current form is a disaster unfortunately, maybe not South Station to Seaport but South Station/Seaport to Logan would be so much quicker by boat, especially once Logan sorts out the Automated People Mover which as proposed has a link to the ferry terminal.
 
Aren't the Fort Point Channel bridges too short to accommodate any of the existing BHC ferry fleet anyway?
 
HelloBostonHi said:
London Route MAP
London has a "commuter ferry" that manages frequent quick stops without making the journey take forever. Its all about designing the stops for quick access, preferably no reversing, and quality boats.

clipper.jpg
Click to expand...

London's are modally classified as a water taxi in that the routes make multiple stops (hence their route map being designated as "Water Bus"). Ferries by dictionary definition only ping between two points across a body of water...or up to a couple of points on one side and a couple of points on the other side widely separated by the crossing of open water.

Additionally there's an unofficial implication of low-capacity for water taxis and high capacity for ferries...albeit with some blurring of the lines in the middle. It's like the water public transpo analogy to "light" vs. "heavy" rail, capacity-wise.


Water taxis (i.e. "light" capacity) are definitely the only kind of craft that'll fit into Ft. Point Channel and every other overhead restriction. The problem with craft procurement is whether the "light" taxis can take a longer Harbor crossing in rough weather like the ferries can. Some routes the taxis are probably not going to be ideal for unless furnished with barf bags during every Atlantic storm that's 200 miles or less away. That could place constraints on a prospective route map by which stock you'd have to assign to which routes.
 
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