Recent visit to Portland

portlandneedsnewarena said:
statler said:
Max said:
Just FYI, the public market is actually in the process of closing. If you could have walked through during the summer maybe a year or two ago, when it was full, it would have been more impressive. It will be interesting to see what they do with the building.
I still can't believe that place wasn't profitable. It was such a great asset to the city. Shame to see it go. :(
I like ablarc's idea of moving it down to the Greenway in Boston. :D

The Libra Foundation (from what I am told - very reliable source) used to lose close to 1 million per year on the Public Market. The Restaurant at the PM pays absolutely nothing for a lease. Libra basically subsidized the restaurant space so that their WOULD be a restaurant in the Public Market. Otherwise, a restaurant in that location just wouldn't have been able to survive. So you can see why Libra was anxious to dump the Public Market.

no it wasnt so much that the libra was anxious to dump the market, its that libra sold ALL of their downtown properties so that they could invest in rural maine instead. The people who bought the property package wount continue to subsidize the market because it was never their goal to revitalize cumberland ave/bayside as it was for the libra foundation. I think libra knew from day one they were taking on an uphill battle with the market in that location, i just think they thought it would have caught on a little more and been able to stand on its own a little more, which never happened, as we know.
 
Patrick said:
portlandneedsnewarena said:
statler said:
Max said:
Just FYI, the public market is actually in the process of closing. If you could have walked through during the summer maybe a year or two ago, when it was full, it would have been more impressive. It will be interesting to see what they do with the building.
I still can't believe that place wasn't profitable. It was such a great asset to the city. Shame to see it go. :(
I like ablarc's idea of moving it down to the Greenway in Boston. :D

The Libra Foundation (from what I am told - very reliable source) used to lose close to 1 million per year on the Public Market. The Restaurant at the PM pays absolutely nothing for a lease. Libra basically subsidized the restaurant space so that their WOULD be a restaurant in the Public Market. Otherwise, a restaurant in that location just wouldn't have been able to survive. So you can see why Libra was anxious to dump the Public Market.

no it wasnt so much that the libra was anxious to dump the market, its that libra sold ALL of their downtown properties so that they could invest in rural maine instead. The people who bought the property package wount continue to subsidize the market because it was never their goal to revitalize cumberland ave/bayside as it was for the libra foundation. I think libra knew from day one they were taking on an uphill battle with the market in that location, i just think they thought it would have caught on a little more and been able to stand on its own a little more, which never happened, as we know.
Oh, they were anxious to dump the Market!
 
portlandneedsnewarena said:
Patrick said:
portlandneedsnewarena said:
statler said:
Max said:
Just FYI, the public market is actually in the process of closing. If you could have walked through during the summer maybe a year or two ago, when it was full, it would have been more impressive. It will be interesting to see what they do with the building.
I still can't believe that place wasn't profitable. It was such a great asset to the city. Shame to see it go. :(
I like ablarc's idea of moving it down to the Greenway in Boston. :D

The Libra Foundation (from what I am told - very reliable source) used to lose close to 1 million per year on the Public Market. The Restaurant at the PM pays absolutely nothing for a lease. Libra basically subsidized the restaurant space so that their WOULD be a restaurant in the Public Market. Otherwise, a restaurant in that location just wouldn't have been able to survive. So you can see why Libra was anxious to dump the Public Market.

no it wasnt so much that the libra was anxious to dump the market, its that libra sold ALL of their downtown properties so that they could invest in rural maine instead. The people who bought the property package wount continue to subsidize the market because it was never their goal to revitalize cumberland ave/bayside as it was for the libra foundation. I think libra knew from day one they were taking on an uphill battle with the market in that location, i just think they thought it would have caught on a little more and been able to stand on its own a little more, which never happened, as we know.
Oh, they were anxious to dump the Market!

i just dont buy that, because they knew from the beginning that it was not a money maker and that in fact it would have to operate at a loss. they knew it, so its not like it was unforeseen. so why would they be anxious? its like they were doing it not cause they got stuck with it but because it was in their plan to subsidize it from the beginning.
 
But why couldn't it be a money maker? It should have been a goldmine for all involved. That place should have been packed morning, noon and night. I don't get why it failed. :(
 
Portland Public Market Expected to Close

dsc010654xz.jpg

An out-of-state investment group has signed an agreement to acquire Libra Foundation?s Portland real estate holdings. The investment group has no interest in operating the Public Market.

An out-of-state investment group signed an agreement last week to acquire the Libra Foundation?s Portland real estate holdings. Although details of the purchase?such as the name of the investment group and the purchase price for the properties remain unclear?the deal is expected to be the most expensive real estate transaction in Portland's history. The sale is expected to close within 60 days.

The agreement includes seven properties?three Canal Plaza office buildings; the Fore Street parking garage and an adjacent property; 465 Congress Street; and the Portland Public Market.

According to Libra Foundation sources, the new buyers have no interest in operating the Portland Public Market which has remained unprofitable since opening in 1998. The Libra economic development project was designed to help farmers and small-business people and extend economic development into the city's Bayside neighborhood.

Libra Foundation announced last February that it intended to sell its properties, including the Portland Public Market. Since that time several market vendors have gone out of business or have made plans to leave the building. Four current or past vendors--Maine Beer & Beverage Co., K. Horton's Specialty Foods, A Country Bouquet and Borealis Breads--have come forward with plans to develop a new public market later this year at Monument Square. The group was awarded a $20,000 planning grant from the Maine Department of Agriculture, a step toward relocating the public market concept to Monument Square. Busy Monument Square--the home of Portland?s Farmers? Market?seems to have the business and residential traffic to make it an ideal location for the venture.

http://www.maine.gov/agriculture/newsletter/feature_15.htm

the bold section of the above mini article says it all--there was a lack of traffic in that section of town. Though it is very close to downtown, the only people that live around there (and go there, really) are from very low class working class etc type families and neighborhoods. not the type of place where people with lots of cash to throw around visit that often. if it was in the old port, i think it would have gone over much better. people in southern maine do not go downtown for their business, they go to the mall or to outerlying supermarkets. for the most part, that is. things like the market appeal to a select class of hippies living downtown, the occasional resident from the inner ring suburban neighborhoods, but mostly to visiting tourists from up north or out of state----and thos epeople tend to flock toward the old port, nnot cumberland stabenue, as grittys calls it. but also i think its the fact that what they were selling--fruits, spices and veggies etc--was not the type of good that carries a high price tag. so it would be liek trying to pay your mortgage when your only job was operating a lemonade stand at 10 cents a cup. but to be honest, most of my ideas are just speculation, and there could be another underlying reason that i am unaware of.
 
This is such a shame because when you come into Portland you can park in the Public Market garage and grab coffee and use a restroom before being touched by rain or snow. Places like that can be useful in norther cities.

Patrick, I did see the Whale mural. I was walking down a wharf hoping to see George Fort. I managed to see it later from the road when it cleared a bit.
 
you could have seen that fort perfectly if you continued on congress street, out of downtown, up through munjoy hill and out to the eastern promenade (about half a mile from downtown). The area has panoramic views of casco bay, with all of the little islands poking their heads out of the mist, and that fort as well as some other attractions clearly visible.

The reason I asked about the whale wall is because there is an excellent chance that there will be an upscale/luxury hotel built on that pier in the near future.

lastly, did you take any pics?
 
My partner in crime took many pictures and I haven't even seen most of them yet. I'll see what I can do.

About chains, I noticed the stores you mentioned plus L.L. Bean and a Starbucks or two. I had my $10 ice cream for two at Cold Stone Creamery without realizing it was a national chain. But if every city had as few chains as Portland, no one would complain about them.
 
TheBostonian said:
My partner in crime took many pictures and I haven't even seen most of them yet. I'll see what I can do.

About chains, I noticed the stores you mentioned plus L.L. Bean and a Starbucks or two. I had my $10 ice cream for two at Cold Stone Creamery without realizing it was a national chain. But if every city had as few chains as Portland, no one would complain about them.

Is LL bean really considered a chain? I thought they only had one store in freeport and its affiliate branch in portland, plus maybe a new one that is in the process of openning up in NH. But since its a maine company, i tend not to think of it as a chain )like old navy or something) most of the time.
 
Another post:

I did, by the way, enter the public library. There's a small exhibit of "Altered Books" that are actually quite a fun thing to look at. And they all had bar codes, making me wonder if you can take them out.
 
never heard of the studio district, not sure exactly what that means, but that map is screwy cause the arts district is certainly not that big, its mostly along congress street.
 
Patrick said:
portlandneedsnewarena said:
Patrick said:
portlandneedsnewarena said:
statler said:
Max said:
Just FYI, the public market is actually in the process of closing. If you could have walked through during the summer maybe a year or two ago, when it was full, it would have been more impressive. It will be interesting to see what they do with the building.
I still can't believe that place wasn't profitable. It was such a great asset to the city. Shame to see it go. :(
I like ablarc's idea of moving it down to the Greenway in Boston. :D

The Libra Foundation (from what I am told - very reliable source) used to lose close to 1 million per year on the Public Market. The Restaurant at the PM pays absolutely nothing for a lease. Libra basically subsidized the restaurant space so that their WOULD be a restaurant in the Public Market. Otherwise, a restaurant in that location just wouldn't have been able to survive. So you can see why Libra was anxious to dump the Public Market.

no it wasnt so much that the libra was anxious to dump the market, its that libra sold ALL of their downtown properties so that they could invest in rural maine instead. The people who bought the property package wount continue to subsidize the market because it was never their goal to revitalize cumberland ave/bayside as it was for the libra foundation. I think libra knew from day one they were taking on an uphill battle with the market in that location, i just think they thought it would have caught on a little more and been able to stand on its own a little more, which never happened, as we know.
Oh, they were anxious to dump the Market!

i just dont buy that, because they knew from the beginning that it was not a money maker and that in fact it would have to operate at a loss. they knew it, so its not like it was unforeseen. so why would they be anxious? its like they were doing it not cause they got stuck with it but because it was in their plan to subsidize it from the beginning.
The Public Market was Elizabeth Noyes dream and w/ her passing away several years ago, I am certain that Owen Wells (Libra Foundation President) being the prudent business man that he is, has looked at the huge drain $$ on the Libra Foundation coffers by subsidizing the PM and has also realized that the overall public has never really caught onto the location/place and finally said enough is enough. I have been told that that is pretty much the case. The location sucks and they should have realized that from the get-go. It just is not convenient to get to.
 
I've only been there a few times and I remember it being in a kinda weird area, but I really don't remember too much. Do you think possible that they were hoping that the area around the market would revitalize due the markets presence? It it an area that could revitalize or would that require too much infrastructure work? In other words, does the area around the market have good bones (good housing stock, retail space) that just needs to be cleaned up or would it need to be completely redeveloped from scratch (too many parking lots, garages, industrial areas, wide roads, etc)?
 
statler said:
I've only been there a few times and I remember it being in a kinda weird area, but I really don't remember too much. Do you think possible that they were hoping that the area around the market would revitalize due the markets presence? It it an area that could revitalize or would that require too much infrastructure work? In other words, does the area around the market have good bones (good housing stock, retail space) that just needs to be cleaned up or would it need to be completely redeveloped from scratch (too many parking lots, garages, industrial areas, wide roads, etc)?

If you can picture congress street in your mind, statler, the portland public market is located a block north on a parallel street called cumberland avenue. However, as close to downtown as it may be, it is on the fringe of an industrial neighborhood called bayside. The city is currently in the midst of revitalizing bayside, but it is a large area and their efforts are focussed about 15 blocks away by the interstate, so this area doesn't have much going for it. But to answer your question, I am pretty sure that the entire point of openning the public market where they did was to pump some life and energy into that section of town, hoping that more would follow. In most of the articles I have read they refer to the market's openning as a "bold experiment in urban revitalization" or some similar phrase. Bayside has been a thorn in the side of portland ever since it was industrialized (used to be neighborhoods) and the city is struggling with ways to develop it into an urban gateway but so far hasn't done much, but inch by inch they are making small steps of progress here and there, with zoning amendments, low rise development, scrap yard removals etc.. Also, there are not too many wide roads, industrial areas, parking lots etc directly adjacent to the market, and there is certainly good housing stock in the area, but like i said before, it is on the "fringe" of an area that is chaacterized by all of those things, and most people lump it in with that area in their minds, therefore they dont bother to travel there. We could certainly line cumberland ave with shops everywhere, but everyone with money goes to the old port, and cumberland avenue is full of low class people with missing teeth, beer breath and knives. It is a difficult thing to deal with, since it is so close to downtown, but until they build lots of condominiums there, cumberland stabenue is not going anywhere soon in terms of meaningful development.
 
Interesting. Thanks Patrick. I'm always fascinated with why some areas gentrify(for lack of a better word) while other areas remain in slump, despite best efforts. I'll definitely try to swing up to that area when I'm up there next month. My wife will probably want to stay in the Old Port, but I'll try.
 
statler said:
Interesting. Thanks Patrick. I'm always fascinated with why some areas gentrify(for lack of a better word) while other areas remain in slump, despite best efforts. I'll definitely try to swing up to that area when I'm up there next month. My wife will probably want to stay in the Old Port, but I'll try.

I think in coming years the story will change dramatically. Historically, portland's main thoroughfare has been congress street, and the city's main entrance has been from the waterfront. Therefore, if you look at an aerial photo of portland, you will see development and commerce has spread from congress street down to the waterfront, and in come cases the other way around (from the waterfront to congress). In any case, that area of land is fully developed, and the area to the north of congress street has remained more or less the back door to the city (thats bayside, where the market is located).

However, now that people come into the city more often by car than they do by ship, and the interstate lets out directly into bayside, now making it the "front door" to the city, the councilors have targeted bayside for massive redevlopment. once they get their act together and the ball gets rolling, I imagine the north side of the peninsula will develop in a similar fashion as the southside did over the past few centuries. of course it will probably take a lifetime, but thats the direction the city is headed in. There have been efforts to jump start life on cumb ave recently, with a 12-story condo tower approved and awaiting construction and an 8-story condo building under construction currently. However, I am afraid the 12-story may never be built and the people in the 8-story will simply use it as a place to live and walk to the south of congress, rather than having it serve as an increased demand for directly local business. should be interesting to watch what happens.
 
I'm going to Portland for the first time next week via Downeaster.

Anything I should be checking out in particular? General tips?
 

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