Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

To amend, I just found an online copy of the book that lays out plans, not only for a NSRL, but improvements to all of the Boston region's physical infrastructure.

It's called Public Improvements for the Metropolitan District: Report of the Commission on Metropolitan Improvements. Here's the archive.org link.

The NSRL plans are discussed starting on page 112.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

The 1909 report was followed up by an 1911 proposal and a City of Boston Planning Board report from 1914 that spec'd out another possible alignment (and/or additional alignment) in addition to the "Wead Tunnel - so named as Leslie Wead produced the 1911 proposal" alignment carried over from the 1909 report. This alignment (see p. 14) would've coincided with the construction of "Boston Avenue", a proposed artery surface artery running from North Station down an extended Portland Ave through Haymarket, then proceeding through downtown between Tremont and Washington Sts to Kneeland St whereby the artery/tunnel would swing to the southwest and connect with the B&A main at the current Tremont St overpass by the Pike Ext.

It's important to remember that the 1880s-1920s constituted the brunt of the "Metropolitan"-era of infrastructure and public works in Boston (The Boston Transit Commission, MPC/MDC, Mass Highway Commission, etc were all birthed in this era) and were inspired particularly in later years by the City Beautiful movement that emphasized order, monumentality, large-scale public works and improvements to municipal services and infrastructure - something a new artery plunging through the warren of old Boston streets would accomplish. Copley Square and the western fringe of the Back Bay is perhaps the best remaining example of the goals of this movement, though South Station is certainly another good example (particularly the very orderly, monumental Beaux-Arts headhouse - the favored style of most City Beautiful adherents - and, at that time, the largest free-standing train shed in the world). However, these advocates were prodigious report writes, but never fully enacted their vision outside of virgin-land street networks like the Back Bay, a few widened boulevards (and Atlantic Avenue, a new thoroughfare), the parkway system, and parkland/landscape improvements. These tunnels are very much a part of this movement; they're interesting to look back on and think "if only", the 1909 report certainly elucidates frighteningly similar deficiencies the modern suburban transit system and draws the same conclusions drawn in nearly every subsequent report to date, but these are spec-plans and were never really in serious consideration for more than a few years. Municipal improvement leagues produced some extravagant plans for Boston during this era, so it's par-for-the-course in that much of what was proposed never actually came to fruition.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

The 1909 report was followed up by an 1911 proposal and a City of Boston Planning Board report from 1914 that spec'd out another possible alignment (and/or additional alignment) in addition to the "Wead Tunnel - so named as Leslie Wead produced the 1911 proposal" alignment carried over from the 1909 report. This alignment (see p. 14) would've coincided with the construction of "Boston Avenue", a proposed artery surface artery running from North Station down an extended Portland Ave through Haymarket, then proceeding through downtown between Tremont and Washington Sts to Kneeland St whereby the artery/tunnel would swing to the southwest and connect with the B&A main at the current Tremont St overpass by the Pike Ext.

It's important to remember that the 1880s-1920s constituted the brunt of the "Metropolitan"-era of infrastructure and public works in Boston (The Boston Transit Commission, MPC/MDC, Mass Highway Commission, etc were all birthed in this era) and were inspired particularly in later years by the City Beautiful movement that emphasized order, monumentality, large-scale public works and improvements to municipal services and infrastructure - something a new artery plunging through the warren of old Boston streets would accomplish. Copley Square and the western fringe of the Back Bay is perhaps the best remaining example of the goals of this movement, though South Station is certainly another good example (particularly the very orderly, monumental Beaux-Arts headhouse - the favored style of most City Beautiful adherents - and, at that time, the largest free-standing train shed in the world). However, these advocates were prodigious report writes, but never fully enacted their vision outside of virgin-land street networks like the Back Bay, a few widened boulevards (and Atlantic Avenue, a new thoroughfare), the parkway system, and parkland/landscape improvements. These tunnels are very much a part of this movement; they're interesting to look back on and think "if only", the 1909 report certainly elucidates frighteningly similar deficiencies the modern suburban transit system and draws the same conclusions drawn in nearly every subsequent report to date, but these are spec-plans and were never really in serious consideration for more than a few years. Municipal improvement leagues produced some extravagant plans for Boston during this era, so it's par-for-the-course in that much of what was proposed never actually came to fruition.

CantabAmager -- can't argue with much of the above -- the only omission from your summary which extends things further into the 20th C is Arthur Shurcliff's reworking the Back Bay Fens including the Kelleher Rose Garden and things in Franklin Park and later additions to Storrow Drive and the Esplanade
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Dukakis was on BPR with Jim and Margery yesterday plugging NSRL. Glad it's getting airtime, but I have to say that the messaging from him was pretty ad-hoc and there were a lot of missed opportunities to communicate the value of the link.

http://news.wgbh.org/2016/06/08/bos...kakis-planning-fight-north-south-rail-massdot

At one point near the end of the interview Margery asked him to explain his claim that NSRL would improve transit access to the Seaport and he said something to the effect of "well, we'll have a Central Station too! We could even move the stations closer together. There's also the option of doing underground moving sidewalks, there's a lot of things we can do."

He also argued against the idea that NSRL had value for other New England states. He argued that "its about connecting our two commuter rail systems" and added that "the people who will benefit most are commuters on the North Shore."

Again - I think there were a lot of missed opportunities in the messaging. If all that matters is getting Baker and Walsh (and Congress) on board, then this is water under the bridge.

But if the getting the public on board - to get people actually demanding that this be built - actually matters, then the NSRL advocates are really going to need to tighten up their act....
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Duke's been out of the game too long to be on-point when he's shooting from the hip by his lonesome. I don't think he's misguided or mis-reading so much as he's just out-of-practice when it comes to sticking to talking points with the consistency he could 20 years ago. He no longer has speechwriters or advisors; he's just a private citizen and Northeastern prof with high visibility about town and go-to personable 'get' for any media interview about one of his favorite subjects. An organized advocacy would certainly get his participation, and they'd be the ones to coach and sharpen up his spiel about all the inclusive parties it benefits.

He shouldn't have to be in a position of being a public face for the advocacy. The fact that he is means there's a lot of organizational back-filling that has to be done to get that advocacy well-organized and stocked with people who'll be around when the project is complete. Dukakis is a good voice to have for beating the drum to get attention for it, but he's not going to be the one still alive when first shovel goes in ground. That's somebody else's torch to pick up.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

...right on.

Seth Moulton, please call your office...
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Seth Moulton, please call your office...

On a similar note:
Seth Moulton, they're canceling the Lynn ferry. Please go into Hulk mode. The North Shore needs you.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Probably way out of depth here but I've always wondered about this, running trains under the greenway would be great but seems like a very long term project, in the mean time, have the T ever considered running the red line from Quincy to Oak Grove and the orange from Forest hills to Alewife. It would mean reconfiguring DTX but it would mean one T ride from South to North station? Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong section.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Probably way out of depth here but I've always wondered about this, running trains under the greenway would be great but seems like a very long term project, in the mean time, have the T ever considered running the red line from Quincy to Oak Grove and the orange from Forest hills to Alewife. It would mean reconfiguring DTX but it would mean one T ride from South to North station? Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong section.

The MBTA lines do not run identical trains. I believe that the orange line trains are skinnier than the red line trains. Anyhow there is a crazy transit pitch section in the design a better Boston page.

A NLRL would allow north and south station to have higher frequencies because the trains don't need to stop and turn around. Having another mode of rapid transit between these would be good but doesn't fix the core problem.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Probably way out of depth here but I've always wondered about this, running trains under the greenway would be great but seems like a very long term project, in the mean time, have the T ever considered running the red line from Quincy to Oak Grove and the orange from Forest hills to Alewife. It would mean reconfiguring DTX but it would mean one T ride from South to North station? Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong section.

It would mean tunneling to connect the red and orange together under DTX (which would be crazy), and then reconfiguring every single platform as the loading gauges between the two lines are not compatible. It would be a huge effort, and probably cost more than the NSRL, and deliver a fraction of the benefit (which isn't really just getting between the two stations more easily).
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

It would mean tunneling to connect the red and orange together under DTX (which would be crazy), and then reconfiguring every single platform as the loading gauges between the two lines are not compatible. It would be a huge effort, and probably cost more than the NSRL, and deliver a fraction of the benefit (which isn't really just getting between the two stations more easily).

Orange isn't that difficult to modify, as only the 1908 Chinatown-Haymarket tunnel is under-dimension for Red cars and would need a dimensional scraping. But there's jack-all reason to do it when the lines don't come anywhere close to a plausible interconnection point. It makes $0 difference in the unit cost to order the same exact car in two different tincan sizes. We're doing exactly that right now with Orange and Red out in Springfield. We did that on the last Orange order in '80 for the 01200's, which are identical make (right down to the unused rooftop pantograph mounts) to the smaller Blue 0600's that came from the same factory 18 months earlier.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

2 questions:
1) I know there's fill underneath the 93 tunnels, but (out of curiousity) how deep does that fill go? My concern is that the current tunnels are supported by this fill, but will the additional NSRL tunnels have enough support from the ground underneath? Will they have to add more reinforcement?
2) Is there a large enough demand for Central Station to be built? I personally think it would be rather convenient for travelers going to and coming from Logan to have only one transfer if they decide to take public transit. At first, I thought Central Station was ruled out because it was too complex and too costly, but would this demand/connection justify it?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

The fill goes down to bedrock supposedly.

Logan transfers are better addressed by getting on the Silver line at South Station, which goes directly to the terminals. Travelers transferring to the Blue line still have to get a shuttle from the Airport stop which is some distance away. Central station wouldn't be any less transfers.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Easier to build a bowdoin-NS link under the state services building than to build central station (says I)
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Why build a central station instead of having the north end of the North Station platforms just barely at North Station and the south end closer to Aquarium where walkways are feasible for the Blue Line connection? Essentially the underground North Station would be more oriented on Haymarket, with maximized connections.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I think on the current NSRL website the images of the route show the station positioned exactly as you describe it.

1447511326420

http://www.northsouthraillink.org/alignment/

The red boxes are the stations and the red lines is the route the tunnel takes.

Profile drawing:

NSRL+Profile-VHB+DEIR-MIS+Fig.+2.5-7.jpg

http://www.northsouthraillink.org/alignment/
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Yeah, with those current proposed locations, Central Station should be cut. At that point, South Station is as close/closer than North Station. You could have freakin' moving sidewalks underground from both South and North under that proposal.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Baker on the NSRL (again)

Baker told business leaders he would move ahead with a feasibility study for the North-South Rail Link. But he indicated he would prioritize state funds for fixing the subway and commuter train lines that are running today.

Okay fine, everyone agrees there's a lot of desperately needed maintenance in the current system.

Baker’s comments also underscored his rift with Dukakis over the need to expand already-congested South Station.

The Baker administration is moving ahead with a $1.6 billion plan, one that would add seven tracks at the station. Baker said the project, coupled with a move of the Postal Service facility next door, would unlock the development potential along the downtown side of Fort Point Channel while accommodating more frequent trains.

Dukakis argues that a North-South Rail Link would make a South Station expansion unnecessary, because trains could just continue through to routes north of Boston rather than stop in the city.

Baker is not convinced.

I know some have argued that SSX and the NSRL are both ultimately necessary. Wouldn't it be better to focus on the NSRL first, though?


Lastly, the article mentioned connecting north-side commuters to SS and it mentioned that SSX would require more layover space than the NSRL, but it didn't mention the operational benefits that the NSRL would offer re: frequency of service.

I really think that the NSRL needs to be politically sold as a way to optimize the use of the infrastructure and assets that we already have, rather than an enormous expansion the way a rail line extension would be viewed. It's not being sold that way, though.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Why build a central station instead of having the north end of the North Station platforms just barely at North Station and the south end closer to Aquarium where walkways are feasible for the Blue Line connection? Essentially the underground North Station would be more oriented on Haymarket, with maximized connections.

I don't think Aquarium is as close to Haymarket as you think it is. Those would be very long walkways and even moving wouldn't be a quick trip. I could be wrong, but would almost think South Station would be closer to Aquarium, and might make more sense for moving walkways. Additionally, the picture of the alignment shows that North Station Under isn't really at Haymarket, the birds eye view photo has it incorrectly positioned a little further south.
 

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