Renovations to BPL's Johnson Wing | Back Bay

Cortes said:
As someone who uses this building every day, I can say that it is almost an 100% success. The community table is not powered yet. The only thing wrong so far that I can see is the front doors. They don't work correctly, and are consistently down for servicing and/or repair. Although I like the design/look of the doors, automatic doors which are constantly opening and closing are a major waste of energy. They are constantly blowing cold air out at the moment, and god only knows what will happen in the winter. Revolving doors would of been a MUCH better choice.
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I was at the BPL yesterday, and after reading Cortes' comment I decided to watch the doors for a bit. I can concur that air conditioned air blows through them rather frequently, but here are some other considerations:

- They did include a vestibule is part of the design (dual set of doors) to minimize air transfer, but the high traffic and the fact that both sets of doors open at the same time in automatic mode counteracts the eco-friendly effect of the vestibule
- However, these doors are highly accessible. I watched a man in a wheelchair carrying a stack of books sail right through them. Revolving doors, on the other hand, are not accessible, and by law require a separate accessible door next to them. The issue with that type of setup is that lazy non-disabled people use the accessible door all the time and not the revolving door, thus you end up with the same environmentally-unfriendly effect.

So my take is that the doors look great, are highly accessible, and include the good-practice vestibule to minimize air exchange. They may just need to play with the timing of the automation to get it just right. I know it's not ideal for a disabled person to have to press a separate button once in the vestibule to open the second set of doors, but, this setup wouldn't preclude the BPL from doing that if they deem it necessary.
 
elemenoh said:
No, everything with the BPL address on it from before about 2003 has the 666 Boylston address.
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Thanks. That explains why I hadn't seen the old address and always knew it as 700.
 
bigpicture7 said:
I was at the BPL yesterday, and after reading Cortes' comment I decided to watch the doors for a bit. I can concur that air conditioned air blows through them rather frequently, but here are some other considerations:

- They did include a vestibule is part of the design (dual set of doors) to minimize air transfer, but the high traffic and the fact that both sets of doors open at the same time in automatic mode counteracts the eco-friendly effect of the vestibule
- However, these doors are highly accessible. I watched a man in a wheelchair carrying a stack of books sail right through them. Revolving doors, on the other hand, are not accessible, and by law require a separate accessible door next to them. The issue with that type of setup is that lazy non-disabled people use the accessible door all the time and not the revolving door, thus you end up with the same environmentally-unfriendly effect.

So my take is that the doors look great, are highly accessible, and include the good-practice vestibule to minimize air exchange. They may just need to play with the timing of the automation to get it just right. I know it's not ideal for a disabled person to have to press a separate button once in the vestibule to open the second set of doors, but, this setup wouldn't preclude the BPL from doing that if they deem it necessary.
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BigPicture -- a building with the volume of the BPL at Copley could have a permanent hole the size of the entry doors and would make no discernable difference to the heat flow between inside and outside
 
whighlander said:
BigPicture -- a building with the volume of the BPL at Copley could have a permanent hole the size of the entry doors and would make no discernable difference to the heat flow between inside and outside
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whigh, first of all I was endorsing the door design, so there's no need to scold.

Second of all, yes, we get it that BPL is a huge building and the energy costs are high and driven by a jillion things other than this one set of doors.

Third of all, do not make me do this calculation, because it will result in a useless argument around what the definition of "no discernable difference" is. Yes, the results will vary from zero, if the delta-T between inside and outside is zero...to effective kilowatts, if the delta-T is substantial and there's modest flow rate.

And fourth of all, it's not just about bulk volume considerations. It's also about thermal gradients. While the 1st floor door being open might not have an appreciable effect on the back of the 3rd floor, it absolutely has an effect on the 20-50ft around the door. Shall we just not care about the comfort and usability of that near-vicinity space?

Are you honestly saying big buildings shouldn't bother to have doors - let's just have wide open holes in Boston in August and in January? Come on.

They chose a decent door system; they will finetune the automation (as always needs to be done), and everyone will move on (I hope).
 
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whighlander said:
BigPicture -- a building with the volume of the BPL at Copley could have a permanent hole the size of the entry doors and would make no discernable difference to the heat flow between inside and outside
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This is news to me. I am an understudy at these things, but I would wonder why every large building that is constructed these days has revolving doors and even has signs to remind people to use them for energy conservation. Is this just a myth? In regards to BigPicture's comment about the accessibility, the doors are a major plus. Even I, who have no problems with mobility, enjoy just strolling in. The sign clearly says, "Open to all". And indeed it is.
 
Big, Revolving doors can be fully accessible, they just need to be very large, as in 14' dia or above. Children's Hospital installed an automatic 18' dia one in the late '90s. It had breakout panels that could be used for emergency egress and there were also automatic sliding doors located to the side of it with breakout panels as well. The side doors were actually required by the Mass Building Code - I believe this is a result of the Coconut Grove Fire where people were trapped in the revolving door and many lives were lost. One problem with these large automatic revolvers is that people can get stuck in them when they walk too slowly or too fast and either fail to trigger the motion sensor to keep it spinning or get to close and trigger the one that causes it to stop.

While revolving doors are very energy efficient, many people prefer not to use them and they can be a very intensive maintenance item.

Solving the air exchange problem at the front doors in large buildings with many people using the front doors is not only challenging, but very expensive. The vestibule that was built should work very well during periods of low throughput. When it gets busy, it is far more difficult to make work - you need much greater distances between the doors taking up valuable space or you force huge volumes of air into the vestibule to minimize unwanted air exchange.
 
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Cortes said:
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This is news to me. I am an understudy at these things, but I would wonder why every large building that is constructed these days has revolving doors and even has signs to remind people to use them for energy conservation. Is this just a myth? In regards to BigPicture's comment about the accessibility, the doors are a major plus. Even I, who have no problems with mobility, enjoy just strolling in. The sign clearly says, "Open to all". And indeed it is.
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Cortes -- BigPicture -- makes some good points with respect to local comfort in the vicinity of the door

However beyond that local effect -- there is no significant difference whether the door is revolving, swinging or even a laminar air stream -- inside and outside are just not very significantly connected through that small a hole in the facade of a massive building

Doors do of course control the entry of wind carrying debris, water, snow and of course when they are closed you do have some security
 
Wow! Such a difference! Love the outside lighting and how the inside colors become part of the whole night time lighting! Those warm colors are gonna make quite the difference on a cold fall or winter night.
 
Definitely being able to see inside much better makes it feel more a part of the area and not a fortress. This came out great. Also whoever's idea it was to use mature trees should be setting a gold standard for others to follow.
 
I know it's been said before, but it bears repeating:

This is the exact ground-floor treatment that City Hall should get.
 
Cortes said:
yet. The only thing wrong so far that I can see is the front doors. They don't work correctly, and are consistently down for servicing and/or repair. Although I like the design/look of the doors, automatic doors which are constantly opening and closing are a major waste of energy. They are constantly blowing cold air out at the moment, and god only knows what will happen in the winter. Revolving doors would of been a MUCH better choice.
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I am quoting myself from months ago, yes. But on the first really cold day of the year, those doors are just wide open. I can feel the cold air 40-50 feet into the entrance of the library. When I say 40-50 feet, yes, that is what I mean. Sometimes the doors just stay open because of the amount of traffic.

This was a major mistake. It will cost the library system thousands (10's?) of dollars in heating and cooling.
 
Cortes said:
I am quoting myself from months ago, yes. But on the first really cold day of the year, those doors are just wide open. I can feel the cold air 40-50 feet into the entrance of the library. When I say 40-50 feet, yes, that is what I mean. Sometimes the doors just stay open because of the amount of traffic.

This was a major mistake. It will cost the library system thousands (10's?) of dollars in heating and cooling.
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I suppose they could always go back and retrofit revolving doors? Sounds like a pretty serious error.
 
Cortes said:
I am quoting myself from months ago, yes. But on the first really cold day of the year, those doors are just wide open. I can feel the cold air 40-50 feet into the entrance of the library. When I say 40-50 feet, yes, that is what I mean. Sometimes the doors just stay open because of the amount of traffic.

This was a major mistake. It will cost the library system thousands (10's?) of dollars in heating and cooling.
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I noticed that a few weeks ago. There is absolutely no delay between them opening and they just hang open for a good while. I hope they do something about it.

If they don't want to put in revolving doors could they just have them open more slowly? Or have them slightly offset so they don't both immediately open at the same time? Anything would be better than what is there now.
 
Why don't you guys give Bill Rawn a call and he'll tell you about the myriad of conditions that must be met to pass ADA, i.e. the doors have to stay open a certain period of time and the path of travel needs to conform, while not hogging net usable sf. (617) 423-3470

It looks to me like an expensive air curtain was either V.E.'d out or they were waiting for winter to see how bad gets.
 
bbfen said:
Why don't you guys give Bill Rawn a call and he'll tell you about the myriad of conditions that must be met to pass ADA, i.e. the doors have to stay open a certain period of time and the path of travel needs to conform, while not hogging net usable sf.

It looks to me like an expensive air curtain was either V.E.'d out or they were waiting for winter to see how bad gets.
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Your point is correct (though I dont know if an air curtain would even work with that vestibule design on a day like today), but it's probably not the best idea to post Bill Rawn's office number on here.
 
atlantaden said:
Why not? The number is posted on his website.
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Meh. Forums are a different animal. Could reflect poorly on aB if someone calls it and acts inappropriately/discloses they found their number on here.
 
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