reverend_paco
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2012
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 260
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
How about that height though?
How about that height though?
Rio Grande (née Dudley Square Residential Tower) | Washington St. | Roxbury
- Thread starter datadyne007
- Start date
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
toby you're good. Im plenty cool now. Like your posts... you're not the offender(s) I really was referring to (although you should know schvitz from Schlitz).
I don't like self righteous posts. People on the internet think it's cool to just attack people like W and it ain't cool.
toby you're good. Im plenty cool now. Like your posts... you're not the offender(s) I really was referring to (although you should know schvitz from Schlitz).
I don't like self righteous posts. People on the internet think it's cool to just attack people like W and it ain't cool.
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Well, he capitalized "schvitz", and since this is English, not German, what do you expect? (Yiddish doesn't capitalize common nouns either.)
And why are you offended that people were a little mean to W, but not the (ahistorical) "hey they moved there so they're asking for it" argument he was making?
Well, he capitalized "schvitz", and since this is English, not German, what do you expect? (Yiddish doesn't capitalize common nouns either.)
And why are you offended that people were a little mean to W, but not the (ahistorical) "hey they moved there so they're asking for it" argument he was making?
odurandina
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Messages
- 5,328
- Reaction score
- 265
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Yes, thank you. Keep your eyes on the ball. i thought this thread was at least, leaning toward the hope that a big tower and some fugging density gets added in Dudley square, and other sub-topics that would offer something to the main topic...
(said by a major proponent of a bit of off-topic anarchy).
Yes, thank you. Keep your eyes on the ball. i thought this thread was at least, leaning toward the hope that a big tower and some fugging density gets added in Dudley square, and other sub-topics that would offer something to the main topic...
(said by a major proponent of a bit of off-topic anarchy).
tobyjug
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2007
- Messages
- 3,393
- Reaction score
- 415
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
It was all in jest! (My father lived on Morton Street in the early 30's before he moved to Brookline. One of his fond stories was about walking over to Blue Hill Ave to see the opening of "42nd Street" at the Morton Theatre.)
It was all in jest! (My father lived on Morton Street in the early 30's before he moved to Brookline. One of his fond stories was about walking over to Blue Hill Ave to see the opening of "42nd Street" at the Morton Theatre.)
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Wow, I think that this is the first time in the history of my using a "discussion" forum that I actually started an actual discussion with intelligent people offering desperate and interesting comments.
One Schlitz for me. Anyway...I don't want to derail the thread.
Wow, I think that this is the first time in the history of my using a "discussion" forum that I actually started an actual discussion with intelligent people offering desperate and interesting comments.
One Schlitz for me. Anyway...I don't want to derail the thread.
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Eggleston and Jackson Square are perfect for this type of development. Eggleston already has something close to this height. And as far as your comment in regards to Charlestown and or Southie, look no further than Andrew Square and the redev of the project in Charlestown as areas where height is being proposed in order to fill demand.
Eggleston and Jackson Square are perfect for this type of development. Eggleston already has something close to this height. And as far as your comment in regards to Charlestown and or Southie, look no further than Andrew Square and the redev of the project in Charlestown as areas where height is being proposed in order to fill demand.
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Very cool.. It's amazing how many Jews moved from blue hill ave area to Brookline... Redlining etc etc discussed to death elsewhere but yeah, such a quick change in neighborhood.
I think one point Whigh attempts to make that is underappreciated is how much in the 21st century people tend to see neighborhood demographics as entities that are more longstanding than they actually are, and that need to be preserved. I definitely am not a fan of gentrification, generally speaking, but Roxbury and JP 60-70 years ago were just totally different demographics than they are now. Our time an extremely sentimental one - if people cared about preserving communities and architecture and "historical" stuff 100 yrs ago the way they do now, we would have no city at all...
Hopefully this development happens, though... I'm not necessarily advocating clear preservation of roxburys status as the one black neighborhood of Boston, but the power structure in this city is white as can be and it would be nice to see a successful - and large - project built and run by local black people instead of the usual crowd.
Very cool.. It's amazing how many Jews moved from blue hill ave area to Brookline... Redlining etc etc discussed to death elsewhere but yeah, such a quick change in neighborhood.
I think one point Whigh attempts to make that is underappreciated is how much in the 21st century people tend to see neighborhood demographics as entities that are more longstanding than they actually are, and that need to be preserved. I definitely am not a fan of gentrification, generally speaking, but Roxbury and JP 60-70 years ago were just totally different demographics than they are now. Our time an extremely sentimental one - if people cared about preserving communities and architecture and "historical" stuff 100 yrs ago the way they do now, we would have no city at all...
Hopefully this development happens, though... I'm not necessarily advocating clear preservation of roxburys status as the one black neighborhood of Boston, but the power structure in this city is white as can be and it would be nice to see a successful - and large - project built and run by local black people instead of the usual crowd.
odurandina
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Messages
- 5,328
- Reaction score
- 265
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
i left a patch on someone's front lawn....
https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...gs/Xg1G4HNKe9JGBw09g3lEML/story.html#comments
i left a patch on someone's front lawn....
https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...gs/Xg1G4HNKe9JGBw09g3lEML/story.html#comments
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
My Grandmother grew up in Fields Corner. She is as white as they come. The back of the hill was a black neighborhood. Not anymore. The key to any successful neighborhood is it having a dynamic character. Frankly, as a white dude, I enjoy going to Dudley and enjoying it's distinct character. I don't mean to say that I want it "stay black", but I... maybe I do, I just want it to stay dynamic, and if that means black women who work as doctors at BMC move into the top floors of this place, well then, YEAH!!!
My Grandmother grew up in Fields Corner. She is as white as they come. The back of the hill was a black neighborhood. Not anymore. The key to any successful neighborhood is it having a dynamic character. Frankly, as a white dude, I enjoy going to Dudley and enjoying it's distinct character. I don't mean to say that I want it "stay black", but I... maybe I do, I just want it to stay dynamic, and if that means black women who work as doctors at BMC move into the top floors of this place, well then, YEAH!!!
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Why would they leave Milton ?
Why would they leave Milton ?
citylover94
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2012
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction score
- 57
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
And why would black doctors moving in be different than white doctors moving in either way there is a chance that by moving in they will start to gentrify the area and push out the previous families. Yes superficially the neighborhood may seem to stay the same if it is black people causing the change but that doesn't mean it wouldn't change the neighborhood. I do want to note I am not against the neighborhood changing. Places evolve and change that is part of life. I am just questioning why people are saying that black doctors (for example) moving in would be better and if it is just based on race which seems a bit strange.
I also don't want to see Boston lose a more reasonably priced neighborhood either so I hope that what happens is that prices here have a broader spread than most neighborhoods with a mix of low, middle and high cost housing.
And why would black doctors moving in be different than white doctors moving in either way there is a chance that by moving in they will start to gentrify the area and push out the previous families. Yes superficially the neighborhood may seem to stay the same if it is black people causing the change but that doesn't mean it wouldn't change the neighborhood. I do want to note I am not against the neighborhood changing. Places evolve and change that is part of life. I am just questioning why people are saying that black doctors (for example) moving in would be better and if it is just based on race which seems a bit strange.
I also don't want to see Boston lose a more reasonably priced neighborhood either so I hope that what happens is that prices here have a broader spread than most neighborhoods with a mix of low, middle and high cost housing.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
Go back 200 plus years and Boston is almost all composed of historic descendants of the original English settlers, recent English immigrants and a few others including the French Huguenots [e.g. Paul Revere's father]
By the immediate post Rev War -- a few French Canadians start to move in as a result of the English Victory in Quebec a generation earlier.
Jean-Louis Anne Madelain Lefebvre de Cheverus born in Mayenne, France, 1768-- arrives in from London [where he fled the French revolution] in 1796 to convert Indians, stays and builds the First Holly Cross Cathedral 1803 [near where MT stands today] and in 1806 Boston becomes a Bishoprick under the authority of Baltimore with de Cheverus made the First Catholic Bishop of Boston [1810-1818].
Knowing that they have a church and despite the anti-Catholic riots including the Burning of the Ursuline Convent [1835]-- poor Irish begin emigrating in handfuls and then as an increasingly visible Irish emigre community develops -- the hoards fleeing the potato famine arrive in Boston en-mass and settle not in Southey -- but in the oldest and now poorest part of Boston -- the North End and in Charlestown
John Bernard Fitzpatrick the 3rd Bishop of Boston is native born 1812 in Boston to recently arrived Irish emigre parents, and educated through graduating from the Latin School in Boston. By the time of his death in 1866 several new Catholic churches and several repurposed Protestant Churches serve a burgeoning Catholic and mostly Irish recently emigrated community. However, signs such as "No dogs or Irishmen Need Apply" still dominate the labor market.
But despite the subtle, to open oppression, the Irish keep coming and eventually the more successful start moving out of the North End and settling in the South End and later in Southey, and even Brookline. In 1875 the new Bishop becomes an ArchBishop -- no-longer under the orders from Baltimore. This Archbishop John Joseph Williams born in Boston, in 1822 to recently arrived Irish immigrants grew-up in a house on Broad Street. When his father died in 1830 his mother remarried and the family moved to the North End. He builds the new Holly Cross Cathedral in the newly developing South End in 1895.
By the time he passes away in 1907 -- Boston Has an Irish Catholic Mayor born in Boston [John Francis "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald (1863) – father of Rose [eponym of the Greenway], maternal grandfather of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy and eponym himself of the late Expressway]. By WWI -- the original Yankees have abandoned trying to control Boston directly [John Sears, City Councilor, Commissioner of the MDC and unsuccessful candidate for Mayor and Governor probably being the last --- when he ran for Governor in 1982 against M.S. Dukakis -- the Globe's Robert Turner wrote “Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether John Winthrop Sears is running for governor of the Commonwealth or, like his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather John Winthrop, for governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony,”]. Yankees who in the 20’s still control the State House impose restrictions on Boston such as the Alcoholic Beverage Commission which the city is still fighting.
And so it goes for the Italians who start to arrive just as the Irish are reaching Macro-Political Power. The Italians start to settle in the Poorest parts of Boston such as the North End and the heavily Seaport industry dominated and recently filled East Boston. It takes more than a generation, but they eventually achieve a significant measure of Political Influence and see one of theirs elected as Governor in 1956 [Foster Furcolo defeating old-line Yankee Lt. Gov. Sumner Gage Whittier] and even later Thomas Menino becomes the longest serving Mayor of Boston.
Other groups arriving in the late 19th and early 20th Century mostly from Central and Eastern Europe such as Russian Jews [Roxbury, West End] and Poles [Polish Triangle, East Cambridge, Chelsea] cluster with others of their ethnicity, who speak their own language, or support their traditional cultural needs such as foods. However lacking the numbers of the Irish or the Italians they never achieve much political power, although a Polish American makes it to the statewide position of Auditor {Thaddeus M. Buczko, born 1926, served as Salem City Councilor, Massachusetts House of Representatives and Massachusetts Auditor [1964 – 1981]}.
Go back 200 plus years and Boston is almost all composed of historic descendants of the original English settlers, recent English immigrants and a few others including the French Huguenots [e.g. Paul Revere's father]
By the immediate post Rev War -- a few French Canadians start to move in as a result of the English Victory in Quebec a generation earlier.
Jean-Louis Anne Madelain Lefebvre de Cheverus born in Mayenne, France, 1768-- arrives in from London [where he fled the French revolution] in 1796 to convert Indians, stays and builds the First Holly Cross Cathedral 1803 [near where MT stands today] and in 1806 Boston becomes a Bishoprick under the authority of Baltimore with de Cheverus made the First Catholic Bishop of Boston [1810-1818].
Knowing that they have a church and despite the anti-Catholic riots including the Burning of the Ursuline Convent [1835]-- poor Irish begin emigrating in handfuls and then as an increasingly visible Irish emigre community develops -- the hoards fleeing the potato famine arrive in Boston en-mass and settle not in Southey -- but in the oldest and now poorest part of Boston -- the North End and in Charlestown
John Bernard Fitzpatrick the 3rd Bishop of Boston is native born 1812 in Boston to recently arrived Irish emigre parents, and educated through graduating from the Latin School in Boston. By the time of his death in 1866 several new Catholic churches and several repurposed Protestant Churches serve a burgeoning Catholic and mostly Irish recently emigrated community. However, signs such as "No dogs or Irishmen Need Apply" still dominate the labor market.
But despite the subtle, to open oppression, the Irish keep coming and eventually the more successful start moving out of the North End and settling in the South End and later in Southey, and even Brookline. In 1875 the new Bishop becomes an ArchBishop -- no-longer under the orders from Baltimore. This Archbishop John Joseph Williams born in Boston, in 1822 to recently arrived Irish immigrants grew-up in a house on Broad Street. When his father died in 1830 his mother remarried and the family moved to the North End. He builds the new Holly Cross Cathedral in the newly developing South End in 1895.
By the time he passes away in 1907 -- Boston Has an Irish Catholic Mayor born in Boston [John Francis "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald (1863) – father of Rose [eponym of the Greenway], maternal grandfather of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy and eponym himself of the late Expressway]. By WWI -- the original Yankees have abandoned trying to control Boston directly [John Sears, City Councilor, Commissioner of the MDC and unsuccessful candidate for Mayor and Governor probably being the last --- when he ran for Governor in 1982 against M.S. Dukakis -- the Globe's Robert Turner wrote “Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether John Winthrop Sears is running for governor of the Commonwealth or, like his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather John Winthrop, for governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony,”]. Yankees who in the 20’s still control the State House impose restrictions on Boston such as the Alcoholic Beverage Commission which the city is still fighting.
And so it goes for the Italians who start to arrive just as the Irish are reaching Macro-Political Power. The Italians start to settle in the Poorest parts of Boston such as the North End and the heavily Seaport industry dominated and recently filled East Boston. It takes more than a generation, but they eventually achieve a significant measure of Political Influence and see one of theirs elected as Governor in 1956 [Foster Furcolo defeating old-line Yankee Lt. Gov. Sumner Gage Whittier] and even later Thomas Menino becomes the longest serving Mayor of Boston.
Other groups arriving in the late 19th and early 20th Century mostly from Central and Eastern Europe such as Russian Jews [Roxbury, West End] and Poles [Polish Triangle, East Cambridge, Chelsea] cluster with others of their ethnicity, who speak their own language, or support their traditional cultural needs such as foods. However lacking the numbers of the Irish or the Italians they never achieve much political power, although a Polish American makes it to the statewide position of Auditor {Thaddeus M. Buczko, born 1926, served as Salem City Councilor, Massachusetts House of Representatives and Massachusetts Auditor [1964 – 1981]}.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2012
- Messages
- 5,078
- Reaction score
- 1,653
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
^ Nice history. What's your point? Are you trying to demonstrate that no neighborhood is constant, particularly in ethnic makeup?
^ Nice history. What's your point? Are you trying to demonstrate that no neighborhood is constant, particularly in ethnic makeup?
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
It is nice to have that potted history here, but all the same, it doesn't speak very much to the history and conditions of the area's current residents, which are very, very different. "Stuff changes" doesn't speak to the nature of any particular change.
It is nice to have that potted history here, but all the same, it doesn't speak very much to the history and conditions of the area's current residents, which are very, very different. "Stuff changes" doesn't speak to the nature of any particular change.
SeamusMcFly
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2008
- Messages
- 2,050
- Reaction score
- 110
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
This would seem true and simple for those who own, but not so much for renters.
Once the neighborhood gets on the hot new place to live radar, rents become outrageous. This pushes out the lower and lower middle class folks who make up a lot of pre-gentrified neighborhoods.
This would seem true and simple for those who own, but not so much for renters.
Once the neighborhood gets on the hot new place to live radar, rents become outrageous. This pushes out the lower and lower middle class folks who make up a lot of pre-gentrified neighborhoods.
odurandina
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Messages
- 5,328
- Reaction score
- 265
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
^^ i fear we might be describing soon-to-be every square inch of Boston.
^^ i fear we might be describing soon-to-be every square inch of Boston.
underground
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2007
- Messages
- 2,390
- Reaction score
- 3
Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury
You're theory assumes there's an unlimited supply of people moving into a neighborhood, let alone an unlimited supply of people who would or want to move to any given neighborhood. In fact, the supply is limited. The problem isn't building housing, but knowing how much housing to build. Under-building in a growing neighborhood to the point that vacancy rates change by even a single percentage point can have a negative impact on prices.
You're theory assumes there's an unlimited supply of people moving into a neighborhood, let alone an unlimited supply of people who would or want to move to any given neighborhood. In fact, the supply is limited. The problem isn't building housing, but knowing how much housing to build. Under-building in a growing neighborhood to the point that vacancy rates change by even a single percentage point can have a negative impact on prices.