Rose Kennedy Greenway

I am sincerely puzzled how so many people on this forum seem to be Chiafaro apologists-supporters. Why? His idea of due diligence appears to me to be based more on press releases and quasi renderings than on honest-to-God developement work.

Do we really want another International Place in this city? I know some here do. I don't.
 
greenwayguy1982 said:
^^
"You can be assured now that if Hynes was to propose something new and did his homework diligently, the Mayor wouldn't be approving in such a short amount of time."

You mean like Seaport Square, the 6 million SF development proposed by Hynes that got approved last month by the BRA?
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Seaport Square took around 4 years to get approval, not around 1.
 
nm88 said:
I am sincerely puzzled how so many people on this forum seem to be Chiafaro apologists-supporters. Why? His idea of due diligence appears to me to be based more on press releases and quasi renderings than on honest-to-God developement work.

Do we really want another International Place in this city? I know some here do. I don't.
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I'm a Chiofaro supporter because he is bringing to light Menino's corrupted policy on development planning. But yes, I do want another International Place. Why? Because it isn't a boring tower like 90% of Boston. And unlike the Greenway which is a blackhole that is sucking the funding from the city and not providing a decent return back, Chiofaro's proposal would at least do something good in the city, like providing PRODUCTIVE jobs.
 
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nm88 said:
I am sincerely puzzled how so many people on this forum seem to be Chiafaro apologists-supporters. Why? His idea of due diligence appears to me to be based more on press releases and quasi renderings than on honest-to-God developement work.

Do we really want another International Place in this city? I know some here do. I don't.
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International Place is easily the finest development in the Downtown/Financial District area.
 
greenwayguy1982 said:
With respect to the Greenway, it's always easy to find something to pick on (like that youth program) - but it's not the Conservancy's fault that the state is turning its back on promises made at the time the conservancy was created. Read the legislation: $5 million in annual funding. No sooner did the ink dry on the bill than the economy soured, the legislature looked for cuts, and slashed the Greenway's funding. It's a public park and should be funded by the public, and it's within the legislature's power to do so.
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In this case, it's very very easy to find something to pick on!!! Who decided what the salaries of the Greenway's managers such as Nancy Brennan? The state? The Conservancy? Where is the hundreds of thousands going in this "on the job" training for these kids? If indeed, the Greenway is a public park, then maybe it should be turned over to the Parks Department in which case, the services of the overpaid managers like Ms. Brennan and her crew will no longer be needed. I find it hard to believe, Greenwayguy, that you can actually defend the actions of the Conservancy in this instance.
 
atlantaden said:
In this case, it's very very easy to find something to pick on!!! Who decided what the salaries of the Greenway's managers such as Nancy Brennan? The state? The Conservancy? Where is the hundreds of thousands going in this "on the job" training for these kids? If indeed, the Greenway is a public park, then maybe it should be turned over to the Parks Department in which case, the services of the overpaid managers like Ms. Brennan and her crew will no longer be needed. I find it hard to believe, Greenwayguy, that you can actually defend the actions of the Conservancy in this instance.
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Just a comment that Menino turned down the opportunity to have the city be responsible for the Greenway, asserting that the city couldn't afford to do it. This was at a time when he was cutting back the parks budget. And the state didn't want to operate it either. Ergo,.....
 
^^
Atlantaden...I for one am very happy that the Greenway is NOT under the care of the city parks department, which already has too much to do with too few resources out in the neighborhoods. I think it is altogether appropriate that a private organization - even one that is partially funded by the state - be tasked with the management and maintenance of this incredible resource...per-acre maintenance budget comparisons are ridiculous and naive because of the compexity of the Greenway - how many regular city parks have the rings fountain, for example? Look at the nicest parks in NYC - Bryant Park, Battery Park Teardrop Park, Paley Park etc etc - all managed and maintained by private or quasi-private organizations.

I also find it interesting that a site devoted to Boston's built environment (which I would have thought would attract well-informed folks who want to make a positive difference) would instead attract so much vitriol around one of the city's newest, coolest amenities like the Greenway - instead of dumping on its management (which has done a great job if you could actually see the parks every day as I do, not throw bombs at them on them from Atlanta), or suggesting that one single development project would solve a problem that doesn't exist, if people here are so interested in the Greenway, how about making some meaningful suggestions for improving the parks? Or better yet, volunteering to help out? Enough with the baseless cynicism!
 
^^
Oh yah and Kent, how exactly is the Greenway a "blackhole [sic] sucking the funding from the city" ????
 
Hey Greenway, I have been to these "parks", and beyond the area with the fountain, most of it is a glorified, barely used median strip. There's so much vitriol because we ARE the well informed folks, most of the park isn't a park at all, and the city is doing everything in its power to prevent anything that might attract more people to the area. (see Aquarium garage, disappearance of all the museums, etc originally slated for the area, the BRA's request to dumb down and probably ultimately destroy the dainty dot building because the proposal was "too iconic", and probably more that I can't think of off the top of my head)

It's also beyond obvious that you are getting paid to market the greenway, or something else of that nature. All of your arguments run contrary to good public policy, which most of us who extensively peruse this site are aware of. You kind of remind me of our old friend Ned Flaherty, but at least we recognize him for what he is, one of the biggest NIMBY's in the city. You? I'm not sure about your angle, but insulting people because we don't like a dumbed-down "park" that was supposed to be a crown jewel after billions upon billions was spent on the Big Dig... well that's not going to earn you too many allies around here.

So tell us, do you work for the private firm maintaining the greenway? The BRA? The mayor himself? What is your real agenda here? Sorry, but as it currently stands, THE GREENWAY IS NOT THAT GREAT OF A PLACE.
 
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greenwayguy1982 said:
^^
Oh yah and Kent, how exactly is the Greenway a "blackhole [sic] sucking the funding from the city" ????
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How much funding was spent on the Greenway and how much quality returns did we get from said amount? Oh sure, we get an super awesome ring fountain, but what about all the other undelivered promises? Oh and just so you know, a ring fountain doesn't make a park special. You praise it like its the greatest innovation a park can have. If you want to see a real fountain, try the Buckingham Fountain in Chicago.

If anything, the most innovating part of the Greenway is the bamboo Garden and Waterfall near Chinatown, but they managed to place that far away from any pedestrian activity that the only people they attract are drug dealers.

Basically, the Greenway is a poor man's Post Office park.
 
greenwayguy1982 said:
^^
Oh yah and Kent, how exactly is the Greenway a "blackhole [sic] sucking the funding from the city" ????
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Im sure if you googled you could find a lot of information online. From Shirley Kressel's (I know she's hated in these parts) August 12th piece in the South End News:

"As the park construction proceeded, the ABC created a private non-profit dubbed the "Greenway Conservancy" (GC), which promised to rescue the beleaguered taxpayers by managing the park funded solely by private philanthropy. But first, they wangled a four-year start-up period funded by seven million dollars from the collapsing Turnpike Authority and a million dollars from the Mayor. They got another two million dollars from the quasi-public MassDevelopment, arranged by Governor Deval Patrick when the by-then moribund Turnpike Authority could not meet their demand for ten million more; the MassDevelopment grant approval declares that "the Greenway project is consistent with ... the prevention of blight, economic dislocation, economic distress or unemployment, or the alleviation of the shortage of housing.

By the time the GC finally took on some actual work in February 2009, it had also managed to get itself a special law, negating its founding mission of using exclusively private funding and requiring the state to fund half of whatever budget it proposed. Their plans called for a budget of $11 million, apparently pegged to the maximum state commitment, $5.5 million a year, that they could push through the legislature."


Okay, so it's mostly state money.


The piece above links to an article on Northendwaterfront.com:

"The Conservancy has not been able to raise the private money it expected, resulting in a budget that is a far cry from the $8 million originally proposed, but still up from the $4.8 million expended last year. In a time of tight budgets, the State is examining the Conservancy?s reliance on public funds, forcing greater accountability and disclosure. "
 
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mass88 said:
International Place is easily the finest development in the Downtown/Financial District area.
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Agree 100%.......I also think the NEWS MEDIA, MOVIE INDUSTRY, TV SHOWS, BOSTON SPORTING EVENTS. Use IP backdrop to represent Boston.

Maybe some people might not like the architecture but overall International Place has become one of the symbols of Boston's skyline.


I think one of the biggest mistakes Menino made was not working with KRAFT and help putting Patriots Stadium in the Seaport District. This would have added much value to Boston in that area. We should have also built a new Fenway park in that area also.
 
TheRifleman said:
I think one of the biggest mistakes Menino made was not working with KRAFT and help putting Patriots Stadium in the Seaport District. This would have added much value to Boston in that area. We should have also built a new Fenway park in that area also.
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no we shouldn't have, becasue then we would just be left with giant parking lots and mostly empty stadiums for all eternity. Even though all the development in the South Boston Seaport is not the cream of the architectural and planning word, it is amazingly better than what you suggest.
 
The residents of South Boston were adamant and vocal in their opposition to the Patriots and/or the Red Sox having a stadium in South Boston. They didn't want the crowds, the traffic, the noise. IIRC, even blue collar support from the unions (looking for construction work) was unable to counter their opposition.
 
found5dollar said:
no we shouldn't have, becasue then we would just be left with giant parking lots and mostly empty stadiums for all eternity. Even though all the development in the South Boston Seaport is not the cream of the architectural and planning word, it is amazingly better than what you suggest.
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If the stadiums, T-Bus routes and Infrastructure was well planned what better spot than across Downtown to put these staduims with a nice planned development of residential. It could have been like Wrigley field neighborhood on one side. And Patriots place on another.

Seaport would have been rocking with that type of atmosphere. I like the old Fenway but it was time to upgrade.
 
TheRifleman said:
Agree 100%.......I also think the NEWS MEDIA, MOVIE INDUSTRY, TV SHOWS, BOSTON SPORTING EVENTS. Use IP backdrop to represent Boston.

Maybe some people might not like the architecture but overall International Place has become one of the symbols of Boston's skyline.


I think one of the biggest mistakes Menino made was not working with KRAFT and help putting Patriots Stadium in the Seaport District. This would have added much value to Boston in that area. We should have also built a new Fenway park in that area also.
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In a perfect world the Patriots would have built Gillette on the SB waterfront. The stadium would have been a 70-75,000 seat retractable roof stadium. I hate the roofs, but it would allow Boston to host the NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four and the Super Bowl. I think both the NCAA and the NFL would love to be able to host their premier events in Boston. Also, it could have tied into the BCEC. I also think you would see other events, like the Women's NCAA Final Four and perhaps event the Frozen Four be played there.
 
On a selfish note, I'm glad I'm not dealing with 70,000 people in Chevy Tahoes trying and drive into Boston all at the same time. I think the Patriots are fine out in the suburbs where those people can all get to it without bothering me.
 
gooseberry said:
On a selfish note, I'm glad I'm not dealing with 70,000 people in Chevy Tahoes trying and drive into Boston all at the same time. I think the Patriots are fine out in the suburbs where those people can all get to it without bothering me.
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I have to agree with this.
 
Not that I'm advocating it here, but Pittsburgh seems to like its new football and baseball stadiums that are right across the river from downtown. Now if only they could get a Major League baseball team again some day.
 
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