Rose Kennedy Greenway

^whighlander... Let's move past OWS.

^Ron

I remember Mass Hort Garden under Glass financial problems at a different parcel. Same thing with YMCA proposal? Were development rights awarded to another entity for something in the future?

Scicil -- I think all of the development rights were subject to getting something beyond PR done in some time frame -- due to costs associated with building over ramps and the recession / lack of known entity to give to (e.g. at the same time the MFA, Gardner, PEM, MOS have rasised in excess of 2B$) -- but none of the Big Dig museums / glass houses / Y/s -- managed to get past the PR and rendering stage

My understanding is that the rights are gone and some sorts of temporary plantings and such will serve as placeholders for future developments
 
Garden Under Glass would have been on solid ground, not above ramps. It was to go on the Dewey Square lawn.
 
The problem with constructing a garage above the ramps is that the construction cost per space is prohibitive; prohibitive cost = prohibitive rates = little use = bankruptcy. If Don Chiofaro was willing to pay the expense of building a floating garage for Harbor Towers instead of proposing to build a garage over the ramps, one can envision the cost of the latter.
__________

As for why the various museum proposals failed to raise money, I think it was mainly due to nobody having a good idea of what would be exhibited. Its not like someone had this private collection, like the van Otterloo's, looking for a home.
 
The problem with constructing a garage above the ramps is that the construction cost per space is prohibitive; prohibitive cost = prohibitive rates = little use = bankruptcy. If Don Chiofaro was willing to pay the expense of building a floating garage for Harbor Towers instead of proposing to build a garage over the ramps, one can envision the cost of the latter.
__________

As for why the various museum proposals failed to raise money, I think it was mainly due to nobody having a good idea of what would be exhibited. Its not like someone had this private collection, like the van Otterloo's, looking for a home.

Uh, not to mention that it'd never get permitted. The parking freeze bank is exhausted, per Vineet Gupta at a recent community looneybin meeting in response to a question from Marty Walz. I can't see any private group with that much need for parking coming up with the funds to build it.
 
Not wanting to contradict Vineet Gupta, who I've always found to be reliably accurate in his traffic presentations, IMO the parking freeze is a political tool, not a constant number enforced by any dept. at City Hall or monitored by any public entity.

Parking spaces are routinely approved, added and subtracted to the bank.

What's more, lots are routinely restriped with additional spaces than permitted. Cars are routinely directed to yellow striped "spaces" without enforcement.

I know of one lot where hundreds of parking spaces were added to the South Boston Waterfront's parking bank without a blink (or single public notice). The South Boston Waterfront Parking Freeze is well known, just not administrated or monitored for accountability.

Edit: Added "IMO" where an opinion was registered.
 
Last edited:
Coincident with this ArchBoston thread, the ramp parcels made the news today.

From The Boston Globe:

The Boston Globe
Editorial
Cover Greenway’s highway ramps with public art, walkways
NOVEMBER 26, 2011

STATE AND city officials are finally starting a more realistic conversation about how to spruce up the so-called ramp parcels that break up the Rose F. Kennedy Greenway. It’s long been clear that three long-planned major cultural facilities won’t be built there anytime soon. So in conjunction with the nonprofit Greenway Conservancy, the Massachusetts Department of Transportation and the Boston Redevelopment Authority will soon be asking the public for new ideas about how to cover up - or at least dress up - the highway ramps that interrupt the linear park.

The new approach, which could result in public art, pedestrian walks, and perhaps small cafes or kiosks, marks a welcome acknowledgment that the Greenway will grow and improve organically, and that plans must be adapted to changing realities.

As the Big Dig project drew to a close, state officials approved concepts for three buildings - a YMCA, a Boston Museum, and a New Center for Arts and Culture. In doing so, they hoped to solve two problems at once: How do you hide the workaday highway ramps? And how do you attract people to the new park that was emerging where a forbidding expressway had stood for decades?


But after spending so many billions of dollars on the Big Dig itself, the state had nothing left to deal with the ramp parcels, leaving these proposed institutions to compete with a host of other worthy nonprofits for funds from a limited pool of private donors. Building atop highway ramps, it became clear, would be complicated and expensive. And even cultural facilities have their own unsightly features - loading docks, driveways - that wouldn’t fit so easily in a linear park.

Fortunately, a different vision for the Greenway emerged on its own: that of a leafy urban canyon that would come to life as more shops, restaurants, and other businesses emerged along it - and as people figured out ways to use it. This past summer, activity on the Greenway finally reached critical mass; the Greenway Conservancy hit upon the right combination of food trucks, tables and chairs, and special programming. A park that seemed underused in previous years was suddenly attracting people.

The highway ramps are still there, of course, and installing public art and walkways could be a major improvement. Over time it may become easier to find public money, private donors, or both for more permanent structures - which don’t all have to be built at once.

There’s a larger lesson here about patience. The Greenway, it turns out, didn’t require new large-scale attractions to prove its worth to the public; it needed time. While buildings along Atlantic Avenue and (the depressingly named) Surface Road long turned their backs to the old expressway, developments in the future will face the new park. Newcomers to Boston don’t have any memories of the off-putting old highway; the children playing in the fountain on the Greenway surely don’t, either.
 
Move Beverly Street to the (relative) east about 50 feet. Extend Haverhill St south to meet New Chardon St. Then parcel off the remaining area from the ramps into small lots and sell them off to developers to build small 6-12 storey buildings like those already in front of North Station. Use the money from selling off these lots to fund construction of cultural buildings at the other two ramp parcels.

I still don't understand why the city refuses to do anything but a mega-project. The waterfront, west end, allston, the pike air rights, and even south bay all could have (and still can be) so much better if the city parceled off these areas into smaller lots and sold them to local interests. The back bay and south end were created this way, and I would argue they are a much more pleasing place than any of the examples listed above.

On top of that, doesn't it stand to reason that you would make more money selling off smaller lots one by one than a big chunk all at once? It works that way for... well every other commodity in the world.


edit: Allston is actually an example that should perhaps be redacted. Harvard is partnering with multiple developers to help restart their building boom, and I am hopeful that this will have the same (or at least similar) effect of a diverse stock of buildings with multiple uses vs a huge swath of the same thing.
 
^davem +1. Make that +20

I'd suggest there would be many more architects and construction crews at work today if the BRA followed your advice. I think the problem boils down to maximizing short-term return in the approval and development of large, vacant tracts instead of assessing long-term return and planning accordingly.
 
Coincident with this ArchBoston thread, the ramp parcels made the news today.

]The Boston Globe[/URL]:

Excelent -- ouside of a soft spot for the 'Garden Under Glass" -- my wife is big on horticulure -- but its not really a ramp parcel -- despite that ugly Vent

The rest of the "instutions" were a stupid use of the Greenway -- expensive to construct and an attempt to try to do it all at once

All proposed institutions should be built on the fringe -- leave the park to art, perhaps some statues?, (where is John Adams?), nice landscaping, temporary seasonal stuff (carousel, winter skating), low-key food and cart-based vendors, street performers, and then after a few years of seasoning -- if any permanent major construction is needed:

build a proper sized covered, but open sided public market
and perhaps eventually the Green House / Winter Garden with cafe and skating rink (winter), wading pool -- water feature / fish pond? (summer)

Also it is the Dewey Sq. area is the perfect location for a large, sophisticated --- Sun Dial -- to do some teaching about astronomy in a low-key manner -- such as how fleeting are shadows

Might also try some large parabolic sound dishes -- these work well at the Northpoint Park
 
There must be some down side to small lots for the city. I can't think of any parcel that has been subdivided this way. I get why developers prefer large plots but I don't know why the city always zone/sell large lots. There has to be some reason.
 
I agree with the article that there are some "good enough" fixes, but here is what I would envision as a compromise between decking everything and throwing up my hands and leaving things as-is:

Occupy/Vent/Ramp parcel north of Dewey Square: this one really needs to be sold for hotel or residential development. Please. I think engineering constraints limit height here, but perhaps more girth could be added by cantilevering over the ramps themselves. As it is, this parcel is unusable (except for long-term protest) and development here would really define Dewey Square as a major public space.

Ramp parcel in front of International Place: Begrudglingly I think this parcel can remain as it is. The walkway between the ramps down the center of the Greenway is pleasant and surprisingly does seem to get pedestrian use.

Ramp parcel in front of Hard Rock Cafe Garage: It kills me that you can see this fenced-off dead space from within Quincy Market. I'd propose trying to salvage the Hard Rock side - I think the North End side is unworkable. On the Hard Rock side I'd like to see a 20 foot decorative wall erected along the curvature of the ramp itself (see http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...ll=42.360891,-71.054045&spn=0.002628,0.005681 for my proposal) and a glass canopy covering the area, open to the sidewalk, containing cafe kiosks and seating underneath. I also wonder whether a small residential infill could be built on the solid land where North Street intersects the parcel. Finally, encoraging the owner of the Hard Rock garage to put some retail on the first floor facing the Greenway.

Haymarket Square ramps: These are truly depressing and difficult to envision without building over them. What a planning disaster! I wonder if the Government Center Garage redevelopment could in any way improve this. In the meantime, the "walkway" theme mentioned by the article could help improve connectivity from the North End to the Haymarket T with a walkway across everything from the T to what Google Maps calls the "Endicott Triangle" (Endictott, Stillman, and Cross Streets). Definitely not easy to pull off.
 
Last edited:
Worst waste of space -- giant lot (Police and other official vehicles) right between greenway and Noth End

that's where a big developmnts should be located - about 50 to 100 "3 bedrrom type units designed for families" and a local elementary school -- surrounded by Parks, near to shops, excelent transit access, walk to work in Fin Dist even walk / bike to Back Bay, the SPID or even Kendall Sq. in good weather -- T in misearable weather
 
clearing out!
037-27.jpg
038-26.jpg
 
^thats amazeing,I took those pixs around 10 am 24 hours later gone! like it never was there!
 
I'm glad to see so many people using the greenway as a public gathering space. We need more urban events like this!
 
^thats amazeing,I took those pixs around 10 am 24 hours later gone! like it never was there!

What's most amazing is how fast the place was restored to dirt and then replanting immediately began


given as the Dewey-north parcel was supposed to be the Garden Under Glass and further given as there is a huge proliferation of the "Garden Crasher' type shows on HGTV, etc -- I suggest the following:

1) Take the Dewey North parcel and subdivide it into 2 to 4 lots

2) Invite the top landscape designers to design in the Winter,
3) let the 'craher landscape contracters build the hardsape "bones' in the late winter,
3) binng Montovia or local nursies to plant in Spring a

and then let the "new urban gardens" remain until the process begins again next year

Each team would have the same budget for materials, rental equipmnt and labor - -with the mateials and equipment provided by sponsors and with the labor costs covered by the cable broadcast rights

It could be called Urban square crashers to differentiate it from the GBH 'Victory Garden"
 
What the hell are you going on about?

Just as the case of Copley Sq. -- it is quite possibe that it will be decades before a "final design and implemenation" is settled for the parcel just north of Dewey Sq, most recently "occupied"i

Meanwhile as there is no real long term plan for the parcel -- various possible temporary or rotating long-term temporary uses should be part of the dialogue about the evolution of the Greenway
 
A rendering of how the RKG was supposed to look, before the grass seeding union muscled out the asphalt layers union behind the scenes:

widest-street-in-the-world-9-de-Julio-Avenue-from-top.jpg
 

Back
Top