Rose Kennedy Greenway

Ron Newman said:
Figment brought a lot of people to the Greenway in June. Other than Occupy and the farmers' markets, it's the only active use I can recall for the Dewey Square park.
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When Clover first started parking there, the Greenway had chairs scattered all over the grassy area where people were eating. It was pleasant.
 
Sicilian said:
^Boston02124

Thanks for that image of South Station... this is the kind of extraordinary perspective on great architecture (and Dewey Square itself) that you can't get no matter how long you live in town.
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ur welcome,when and if the SST gets built this will be my favorite Sq in the city!
 
On the last page or so we were talking about ramp parcels. I've always been extremely concerned about the ramp in front of the Hard Rock garage - I believe that really injects blight directly adjacent to Quincy Market.

Interested to hear what people think about a "quick fix" like this - essentially, not building over the ramps, but rather bounding and activating the existing public space on the Surface Road side and building a small residential/retail development where North Street intersects:

greenwayrampaltbuild.jpg

(Sorry for the rough Google Earth drop)
 
When I visited Dewey Square this afternoon, the lawn and a small part of the adjoining hardscape was still barricaded off, with workers continuing to replant. So they're going to miss their self-imposed deadline of December 15 by a few days.
 
Shepard said:
On the last page or so we were talking about ramp parcels. I've always been extremely concerned about the ramp in front of the Hard Rock garage - I believe that really injects blight directly adjacent to Quincy Market.

Interested to hear what people think about a "quick fix" like this - essentially, not building over the ramps, but rather bounding and activating the existing public space on the Surface Road side and building a small residential/retail development where North Street intersects:

greenwayrampaltbuild.jpg

(Sorry for the rough Google Earth drop)
Click to expand...

I like this idea, with or without the building. All of the ramps should receive some sort of similar covering treatment. The real blight issue with this spot, though, is the MassDOT parking lot by the tunnels.
 
which is designated by the BRA for housing development, but I have no idea what bids (if any) they have received for it.
 
I did some primary empirical research today to build more solid facts into this Greenway discussion. What I chose to focus on was not the Greenway parks themselves, but the uses that currently front these Greenway parks on Atlantic, Surface, Cross, etc.

Methodology:

My focus is on the Greenway "median" from Summer Street on the south side to New Chardon/Stillman Streets on the North side. Note therefore that Chinatown parks, for example, are excluded. I walked this corridor multiple times over the past few weeks cataloging the uses, and used Google Earth to estimate distances along the curb of the different uses I noted.

I split uses into four categories:

  • Active: active uses including storefronts or cafe seating. Obvious examples include the Panera at High Street and the North End shops along Cross Street by Hanover and Salem. I counted this generously, including for example things like the tourist trolley vendors in the Marriott Long Wharf that face Atlantic.
  • Curb-cut/Parking: Where the pedestrian experience is interrupted by curb cuts (e.g. in front of hotels), garage entrances, parking lots adjacent to the sidewalk, harbor tunnel chasms or first-floor garages up against the sidewalk.
  • Public park/Open space - Examples include Columbus Park, as well as currently-undeveloped empty block along Blackstone Street.
  • Blank wall: Built up streetscapes that are neither active nor parking. Examples include the International Place perimeter, the wall keeping the proles out of Harbor Towers, and so forth.

Results:

I tallied the harbor side and the FD side separately and counted the total sidewalk length on each side (meaning that cross streets are excluded from the total length).

FD side (total sidewalk length 4000 feet):
- Active use: 11.4%
- Curb-cut/parking: 22.7%
- Public park/open space: 9.4%
- Blank wall: 56.5%

Harbor side (total sidewalk length 4700 feet):
- Active use: 17.4%
- Curb-cut/parking: 25.1%
- Public park/open space: 11.7%
- Blank wall: 45.8%

Greenway total along the "median" corridor:

- Active use: 14.6%
- Curb-cut/parking: 24.0%
- Public park/open space: 10.6%
- Blank wall: 50.7%

Analysis:

The results speak for themselves. More than half the sidewalk surrounding the Greenway abuts blank walls. In addition, more than a quarter of it is curb cuts, parking lots, and other uses that degrade the pedestrian experience. Thus, 75% of the surrounding sidewalk abuts no active use. Some of the remainder is open space. Tallied generously, only 15% of the building facades by length fronting the Greenway present an active use.

My measurements are not definitive, and some of my judgments were to an extent subjective. I wouldn't mind if anyone wants to independently verify this. I don't think the result would come out radically different.
 
Shepard said:
I did some primary empirical research today to build more solid facts into this Greenway discussion. What I chose to focus on was not the Greenway parks themselves, but the uses that currently front these Greenway parks on Atlantic, Surface, Cross, etc.

FD side (total sidewalk length 4000 feet):
- Active use: 11.4%
- Curb-cut/parking: 22.7%
- Public park/open space: 9.4%
- Blank wall: 56.5%

Harbor side (total sidewalk length 4700 feet):
- Active use: 17.4%
- Curb-cut/parking: 25.1%
- Public park/open space: 11.7%
- Blank wall: 45.8%

Greenway total along the "median" corridor:

- Active use: 14.6%
- Curb-cut/parking: 24.0%
- Public park/open space: 10.6%
- Blank wall: 50.7%

Analysis:

The results speak for themselves. More than half the sidewalk surrounding the Greenway abuts blank walls.

My measurements are not definitive, and some of my judgments were to an extent subjective. I wouldn't mind if anyone wants to independently verify this. I don't think the result would come out radically different.
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Shep -- what would you expect:

Original wharf buildings were cut to insert streets (e.g. Cross St.)
Many were cut again to insert the Green Monster (aka the Central Artery)
Then there was the dig itself for a decade

So the street / sidewalk life in the area turned inward and away from the traffic, noise, stench, etc.

Today there are significant changes already occuring as you see summertime tables and people where there had just been steel, ramps and darkness underneath the monster -- I'd loved to have seen your study done about 2 years ago to compare with toda, and then again about 2015 after the current major building is done and the landscape has matured
 
I'm not surprised by the results and I understand the history. My more salient point is to those who look at the Greenway and say more parks and better programming will bring more people. No... we should not be looking to the quality of the parks but to the quality of the street. Currently the only reasons to walk the Greenway corridor is if you're crossing it or walking your dog. Atlantic, Surface and Cross need more active uses, and those who want to "activate" the Greenway need first and foremost to give the blank walls, garages and curb cuts a careful look.
 
Yes, really good work Shepard.

Maybe this assessment can be republished or posted so it doesn't just disappear.

Also, consider sending to Kairos Shen and Nancy Brennan at the Conservancy. Who knows -- it might have some effect, even as a catalyst to the type of planning Beton asked about at the Greenway planning study meeting.
 
This had been discussed ad nauseum, but the parks in and of themselves are fine. Not great, but fine.

The city needs to fill in any parcel abutting it with density and active uses, and give up on the idea of a continuous greenway and infill specific parcels to knit the fabric back together. It is simple in concept and difficult to execute.

The greenway is only a "median" inasmuch as Bostonians fail to appropriate it and use it as part of their city. There are quite literally hundreds of examples in other cities around the world that have more poorly designed urban spaces but that somehow manage to survive and thrive because their residents make it so. But if I may generalize, I'd opine that Bostonians don't really embrace urban living.

I would wager that if the internet had been around in the 19th c we would have more than 241 pages decrying how disastrous it was. It took over 100 years to get it right. The greenway was flawed in it conception, but that doesn't mean those flaws will not be corrected eventually.
 
el raval said:
The greenway is only a "median" inasmuch as Bostonians fail to appropriate it and use it as part of their city. There are quite literally hundreds of examples in other cities around the world that have more poorly designed urban spaces but that somehow manage to survive and thrive because their residents make it so. But if I may generalize, I'd opine that Bostonians don't really embrace urban living.
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I like you. A lot. You finally "went there" to the root of the issue. I really enjoy taking a stroll down the Greenway from Faneuil Hall to South Station on a nice day or evening when I have time "just because." It's a nice walk. It's nice to be able to take a stroll on something other than the congested streets of downtown or the common/public garden. It gives another option for both recreation and a way to get from point A to B.

There's no T service in the financial district and it's actually a long trip to get from FH to S Sta via the T. A walk down the Greenway is often the fastest, most direct route.
 
datadyne007 said:
I like you. A lot. You finally "went there" to the root of the issue. I really enjoy taking a stroll down the Greenway from Faneuil Hall to South Station on a nice day or evening when I have time "just because." It's a nice walk. It's nice to be able to take a stroll on something other than the congested streets of downtown or the common/public garden. It gives another option for both recreation and a way to get from point A to B.

There's no T service in the financial district and it's actually a long trip to get from FH to S Sta via the T. A walk down the Greenway is often the fastest, most direct route.
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I agree, walking is often nicer, and depending on starting point, I'll make that RKG walk to South Station. But I much prefer walking through the Financial District itself, emerging from it at Dewey Square. Why? Because I love seeing all the other people, all the stores, all the crowded spaces. When I walk the RKG, I am sometimes overwhelmed by the vast emptiness.
 
I too am an inveterate walker, and the RKG would be a much nicer stroll if you didn't have to cross traffic ever hundred yards or less. If you're going to have to do that, might as well go through the FD as HenryAlan suggests and look at the people and buildings.
Ideally, however, a few well-placed over-ramps would make the RKG much more of a real parkland. I think it has good bones but all the crosswalks make it less pedestrian friendly.
 
HenryAlan said:
I agree, walking is often nicer, and depending on starting point, I'll make that RKG walk to South Station. But I much prefer walking through the Financial District itself, emerging from it at Dewey Square. Why? Because I love seeing all the other people, all the stores, all the crowded spaces. When I walk the RKG, I am sometimes overwhelmed by the vast emptiness.
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Sometimes I want hustle and bustle, sometimes I want quiet. Just as in the Back Bay, there are times for walking Newbury or Boylston Street and times for walking the Comm. Ave. mall.

A friend and I found the Greenway to be a very pleasant way to walk from Dewey Square to Faneuil Hall Marketplace after Occupy Chanukah finished this evening.
 
Ron Newman said:
Sometimes I want hustle and bustle, sometimes I want quiet. Just as in the Back Bay, there are times for walking Newbury or Boylston Street and times for walking the Comm. Ave. mall.

A friend and I found the Greenway to be a very pleasant way to walk from Dewey Square to Faneuil Hall Marketplace after Occupy Chanukah finished this evening.
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I think you are right about this, but I mostly don't find the Greenway to be the antidote to the hustle and bustle. If the choice is between Boylston and Comm Ave., for example, I'll likely choose them evenly. But the Greenway is hustling from the cars (made ever more present by the issues Shephard charted), and therefore not quiet and relaxing most of the time. I have occasionally found that enjoyably peaceful solitude there, but only at night. I am among those who believe it will organically improve over time, so I'm not all that up in arms about the issue. But for me, it still isn't a pleasant walk most of the time.
 
HenryAlan said:
I am among those who believe it will organically improve over time...
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I'm glad for the optimism, but if we're talking about even the short-to-medium term there's probably going to be very little change. The only two I can think of - and both are not definite - are the Blackstone parcel and the ventilation-garage-Haymarket building which may, potentially, get a ground floor market (I believe these are, respectively, known as parcels 7 and 9).

Medium-to-long term changes along the Greenway would include the Government Center Garage and Aquarium Garage redevelopments. (Worth noting that, actually, Aquarium Garage presents an active ground floor towards the Greenway - something, as I've shown, you can't say about 85% of the rest of it)

Longer term? Here are some ideas:
  • International Place develops a restaurant between its two towers facing the Greenway (between Olver and High Streets)
  • Redevelopment of surface parking lot at India Street
  • Marketplace Center adds retail facing Surface Road
  • Dock Square Garage (the Hard Rock Cafe garage) redevelopment
  • Large surface parking lot fronting the North End at Fulton Street redevelopment
  • Surface blacktop in front of Northern Ave bridge with the weird Hook Lobster gift shop (whats up with that?)
 
datadyne007 said:
I like you. A lot. You finally "went there" to the root of the issue. I really enjoy taking a stroll down the Greenway from Faneuil Hall to South Station on a nice day or evening when I have time "just because." It's a nice walk. It's nice to be able to take a stroll on something other than the congested streets of downtown or the common/public garden. It gives another option for both recreation and a way to get from point A to B.

There's no T service in the financial district and it's actually a long trip to get from FH to S Sta via the T. A walk down the Greenway is often the fastest, most direct route.
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You seemed to miss the point of my post and zero in on one sentence. I didn't say that it was the root of the issue, just an observation that urban living in Boston is 'urban lite'. If more residents were actively using the streets and parks 24/7, then we'd have better, more lively spaces. The residents would then in turn demand better design and better civic amenities from architects, developers and the city.

But the fact that you like to stroll from Faneuil Hall to South Station doesn't comment on nor seem to understand the initial critique, which is to say that the conception of the greenway was flawed from the beginning: it should not have been conceived as a continuous green ribbon, but should have been designed as intermittent parks between urban fabric that knits the city on either side back together.

For linear parks to stroll along, I'd argue that Boston has that in spades, between the Esplanade, the Southwest Corridor Park, the Fenway/Riverway/Arborway, and the Harborwalk there are over 20 miles or urban linear park. Or Bremen St in Eastie or the Neponset River trail in Dorchester if one is more intrepid.
 
el raval said:
You seemed to miss the point of my post and zero in on one sentence. I didn't say that it was the root of the issue, just an observation that urban living in Boston is 'urban lite'. If more residents were actively using the streets and parks 24/7, then we'd have better, more lively spaces. The residents would then in turn demand better design and better civic amenities from architects, developers and the city.

For linear parks to stroll along, I'd argue that Boston has that in spades, between the Esplanade, the Southwest Corridor Park, the Fenway/Riverway/Arborway, and the Harborwalk there are over 20 miles or urban linear park. Or Bremen St in Eastie or the Neponset River trail in Dorchester if one is more intrepid.
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Actually quite a lot of residents use the streets and sidewalks to commute to work -- Boston has one of the highest percentages of pedestrian commuters in the US

There are also a lot of residents and visitors who walk on streets / sidewalks:
the Common / Public Garden and the esplanade for passive recreation
the harbor walk in the vicinity of the Marriott Long Wharf to Roes Wharf and the area near Christopher Columbus Park
the streets in the North End for restaurants
and believe it or not DTX - despite the Filene's Hole and demise of the bookstores
Boylston near the Pru and Public Library
vicinity of Fenway Park
Huntington / Ave des Artes near MFA , NEU and Symphony
Comm Ave at BU
Newbury St
Charles St.
Franklin St and P.O.Sq Park
 
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