Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Shots fired: http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2014/11/15/innovation/qhy7BbQiICARapsRJGsjaL/story.html

The Innovation District has all the charm of an office park in a suburb of Dallas.
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One street epitomizes the problem. It’s Seaport Boulevard, the main drag. It should have been designed as a busy Main Street that would have sewed the district together. Instead, it looks like a misplaced fragment of the interstate highway system.
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Short, fat buildings are the result. Standing on their separate parcels, they look like a row of isolated actors, each standing in lonely splendor on a different stage. Like teens with smartphones, I suppose the inhabitants of these buildings communicate electronically. In their sealed boxlike buildings, they certainly don’t get out much to meet one another, given the district’s barren lack of lively public space. Call it selfie architecture.
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

It's also the biggest story on the front page.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Too bad the story didn't run earlier this year, before the seaport square plans had been finalized (really the last hope). At this point it's really too late, and just a nice retrospective piece. The only place left for any significant neighborhood building is along D, and that has a lot less impact on the feel of the neighborhood.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Seaport boulevard can still be altered and the type of retail (small boutiques and cafes vs big box only) will make a difference as well. Not ideal but would go a long way.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I so agree with Campbell and have felt the same way ever since the first buildings went up in the district. I'd like to see Seaport Bvld reduced to two lanes and the extra land used for a series of small, connected row buildings built up to the sidewalks as retail and residential opportunities.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Or even, with one lane in each direction, a large center median that serves as truly usable public space - enclosed with cafe tables, plaza paving, planters, art etc. I've been looking for pictures of a similarly wide street with such an arrangement? I recall some similar boulevards in Paris but can't seem to locate them.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Shepard said:
Or even, with one lane in each direction, a large center median that serves as truly usable public space - enclosed with cafe tables, plaza paving, planters, art etc. I've been looking for pictures of a similarly wide street with such an arrangement? I recall some similar boulevards in Paris but can't seem to locate them.
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I think Barcelona's La Rambla fits that description quite well. La Rambla benefits of course from attractive architecture and a lively streetscape both inside the center median and across the street from it.

I liked Campbell's article, his diagnosis was spot on. I really don't see in the Seaport what other people do. I mean, it had potential, maybe 10 or more years ago, but we now have a pretty good idea of what it will look like all built-out. It's a shame, as Campbell notes, that private development in years past was able to produce neighborhoods like the Bay Bay and Beacon Hill, yet today this is what the free market produces (I'm mostly ranting. Obviously it's not a free market when developers are constrained by zoning, permitting, etc., but I think my point remains valid).
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Even a setup like the Commonwealth Avenue Mall would be nice
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

It is nice to have high standards, but the development of the Seaport isn't as terrible as the author makes it out to be. The Seaport is coming together as a dense, mixed-use neighborhood on mass transit with major public institutions (courthouse, ICA, convention center). Suburban Dallas development lacks all of these qualities.

Sure, it doesn't doesn't have the A+ urban and architectural quality of the Back Bay. But it also isn't the D- urbanism of the West End or Columbia Point. I think the Seaport's urban design scores a B and its architecture a B-. It is growth that is much needed in Boston, executed in a good, just not great, way.


bostoneophyte said:
Shots fired: http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2014/11/15/innovation/qhy7BbQiICARapsRJGsjaL/story.html
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheBostonian said:
It is nice to have high standards, but the development of the Seaport isn't as terrible as the author makes it out to be. The Seaport is coming together as a dense, mixed-use neighborhood on mass transit with major public institutions (courthouse, ICA, convention center). Suburban Dallas development lacks all of these qualities.

Sure, it doesn't doesn't have the A+ urban and architectural quality of the Back Bay. But it also isn't the D- urbanism of the West End or Columbia Point. I think the Seaport's urban design scores a B and its architecture a B-. It is growth that is much needed in Boston, executed in a good, just not great, way.
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I really agree with you. All of his complaints are completely valid and it would be far better if they were resolved; however, this is a solid area of development. It is by no means as horrible as he makes it sound.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I basically agree with Campbell. Some modest adjustments can be made over time but the damage is largely done.

The most important question is: have the lessons been learned for the Beacon Yards / Lower Allston area?

Good news - existing neighborhood involvement, 'single long-term' owner (Harvard), [lessons learned from Seaport].

Bad news - MassDOT driven process, seemingly little involvement from BRA or other planners (also there was plenty of planning in South Boston which didn't seem to help).

Big questions? Role of public transit (beyond West Station).
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

What I'm not clear on is: Why'd it take Campbell so long to write about the Seaport's urban planning (or what passes for it)?

The future layout, planning and architecture have been known for years; we've been complaining about them on this forum for years.

Meanwhile, it's not like there are that many other projects in Boston that Campbell couldn't get to this - the biggest single area of development in the city - until now.

Too bad he wasn't able to speak up years ago, when the city could have felt a bit more pressure, and had a bit more ability, to change things.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I remember seeing BRA plans in the mid 90's which were covered in the Boston Globe that envisioned a seaport with a tighter street grid. It was more akin to a fort point channel extension with similar street scale etc. Those original plans gathered dust, little or no construction occurred. It seemed that when construction finally took off in this area a much different type of neighborhood arose.

I wonder if Campbell is feeling a bit more bold now that Menino has passed. I don't know if he would be subject to political pressure, but I can't help but wonder? Campbell in general seems to be much less active in penning opinions like this compared to years ago.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I think it's important to remember that the Seaport in its development era has never been a public project. The BRA can set standards for development, and it should be setting tighter ones. However, while Menino pushed the area, he had no official power to dictate what was proposed or built (in the way that the BRA or Harvard can do at Beacon Park). This vision is Hynes' and Fallon's, not Boston's.

It's also worth pointing out that the Seaport is designed to attract the sort of businesses that require large floorplates, most notably biotech labs, but also large financial operations like PwC. In the Financial District, those footprints get projected more than twice as high, so the buildings don't look so squat. New office space simply isn't in quarter-block buildings anymore, and it might have prevented companies like Vertex and PwC from moving to the Seaport had the BRA insisted on such a thing. The SPID doesn't look like Dallas, it looks like Kendall, and that's precisely what the BRA wanted since Kendall is some of the most successful office/industrial space on the planet.

Also, I know Campell is a critic and not the BRA head, but he doesn't really have any solutions - he just complains. I mean, at one point he basically implies that the SPID can't be successful without a university moving in.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I do agree with a lot of what he is saying, but this was a wasteland and its now a place that I actually enjoy going. The median on seaport blvd in many renderings shows that it will be replaced with shrubs and grass, and I think once all of pier 4 is complete that will make another destination that compliments the waterfront nicely. The only real disgrace that I see right now is waterside place and the silver line, the rest is not incredible but its not terrible either. Seaport Blvd can be fixed after the fact unlike waterside place, they can choose to drop a few lanes, add a bike lane or 2, hell even light rail, put tables and grass on the median, theres a lot of options, its not like they build a long waterside place down the middle of it that would be a huge pain to replace.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

commuter guy said:
I remember seeing BRA plans in the mid 90's which were covered in the Boston Globe that envisioned a seaport with a tighter street grid. It was more akin to a fort point channel extension with similar street scale etc. Those original plans gathered dust, little or no construction occurred. It seemed that when construction finally took off in this area a much different type of neighborhood arose.

I wonder if Campbell is feeling a bit more bold now that Menino has passed. I don't know if he would be subject to political pressure, but I can't help but wonder? Campbell in general seems to be much less active in penning opinions like this compared to years ago.
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From a Wiki biography, Campbell is 77, and, in recent years, seems to have been busy elsewhere. Writing for the Globe these days, he seems to limit himself to big spaces and cultural buildings, e.g., museums.

This is a link to a 12 year old article (and series) he wrote about what should happen to the space under the Central Artery.

http://www.boston.com/beyond_bigdig/news/artery_052602.htm
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I think parcels B and C and the parcels across tbe street are going to be huge in getting Seaport Blvd to tie everything everything, and there are still a lot of shovels that haven't hit the ground and a lot of parking lots still to close. Did Campbell somehow forget this? Every sentence in Campbell's solution-less rant was predictable, and he absolutely should have wrote this years ago when it was relevant. At least he did acknowledge that the floorplates and heights being why they are.

Big business is moving in, the destinations are already there, and it will be dense. Given the proximity to Logan, I'd say the ends justify the means.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

In the Innovation District, by contrast, there are too many isolated buildings on empty lots facing streets that are too wide to support a vigorous pedestrian life. This is a suburban world, just at the moment when center cities, with their street life and density, are coming back into favor.
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This comment says it all--Most people on this board saw the vision for Seaport a long-time ago---Nothing more than Taxpayers enriching the developers and in the end we get a development similar to Route 128 Burlington Office park--on the Water
(Terrible Vision)

The one issue I can't figure out is what happens when all these BOX buildings are built on this prime real estate---The road infrastructure over the bridge to the Seaport is two lanes on both sides--This could be a traffic nightmare--

I actually can deal with the bad Architecture---I can't deal with Constant Traffic especially since Boston and the surrounding areas are starting to face real challenges at this point.
 
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

How does proximity to Logan justify poor design? All of Boston is essentially proximate to Logan. I routinely drive to the airport from Brighton in 20 minutes. Meanwhile there's only one seaport. Explore google street view around the new formerly industrial waterfront areas in Amsterdam and Copenhagen - or hell, even San Francisco - and you will see what kind of opportunity was missed.

Caveat: not that I think the opportunity was missed entirely. We are hardly at full build and there is still time to correct mistakes. Some large squat corporate boxes were always going to be necessary here, but can we find a way to limit them to just what's been built? Can the politic will be found to place the entire area on a wholesale road diet? These are the questions that will determine ultimate success or failure.
 
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