Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
Very interesting. Love secret retreats like that. Thanks.
Very interesting. Love secret retreats like that. Thanks.
Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
kz, I don't think that's office space now--I think it's still a home. About 8 years ago I represented a couple that bought that "house." It's huge. It consists of the a big chunk of the top floor of the original building, plus the house-like structure on the roof.
kz, I don't think that's office space now--I think it's still a home. About 8 years ago I represented a couple that bought that "house." It's huge. It consists of the a big chunk of the top floor of the original building, plus the house-like structure on the roof.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
They can't even be bothered to give signal priority. I'm not expecting much.
So, $44,000 per parking space. That's probably the low end, my guess is that the costs zoom up over $100 million.
Wonder who's going to end up paying for this monstrosity. My guess is the taxpayer. Or maybe they'll find a way to make the MBTA pay. Creative accounting. And the Silver Line will still wait for 90 seconds nearly every time it reaches D street.
Not to mention, how in the world does a 1,700 space parking garage even begin to comply with the spirit of the Clean Air Act? I always felt that the surface parking lots in South Boston were a hack to workaround the law and negate its benefits. Air pollution doesn't know neighborhood boundaries, after all. If the CLF was worth a damn anymore they'd be demanding serious mitigation in return for this thing.
They can't even be bothered to give signal priority. I'm not expecting much.
So, $44,000 per parking space. That's probably the low end, my guess is that the costs zoom up over $100 million.
Wonder who's going to end up paying for this monstrosity. My guess is the taxpayer. Or maybe they'll find a way to make the MBTA pay. Creative accounting. And the Silver Line will still wait for 90 seconds nearly every time it reaches D street.
Not to mention, how in the world does a 1,700 space parking garage even begin to comply with the spirit of the Clean Air Act? I always felt that the surface parking lots in South Boston were a hack to workaround the law and negate its benefits. Air pollution doesn't know neighborhood boundaries, after all. If the CLF was worth a damn anymore they'd be demanding serious mitigation in return for this thing.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
The Seaport was designed to fit the car-centric philosophy of the Menino administration. It's part of the DNA now.
"You can walk a few blocks to the bus!" = Silver Line connection.
Remember when Arborway restoration was canceled in exchange for building parking spaces in the suburbs? Same lunacy applies here.
The Seaport was designed to fit the car-centric philosophy of the Menino administration. It's part of the DNA now.
"You can walk a few blocks to the bus!" = Silver Line connection.
Remember when Arborway restoration was canceled in exchange for building parking spaces in the suburbs? Same lunacy applies here.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
I really don't understand the attitude here. Not everybody can conveniently ride their bikes or use mass transit. The seaport used to be one giant parking lot, and now slowly but surely they are all being built on. People still need to park, and this replenishes those lost spaces. Beats the hell out of surface lots too.
An expanded convention center will be an abject failure if people driving in have nowhere to leave their cars. Utopian visions are just that, visions. Reality does not jive with the opinions of many on this board.
I really don't understand the attitude here. Not everybody can conveniently ride their bikes or use mass transit. The seaport used to be one giant parking lot, and now slowly but surely they are all being built on. People still need to park, and this replenishes those lost spaces. Beats the hell out of surface lots too.
An expanded convention center will be an abject failure if people driving in have nowhere to leave their cars. Utopian visions are just that, visions. Reality does not jive with the opinions of many on this board.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
Except it's already there. Let's not play revisionist history. It's there, and the city is planning to expand it. Isn't that expansion basically set in stone at this point?
City hall is also a failure, but in 2014 we shouldn't be making arguments to still save Scollay Square. We have what we have, and need to look forward and make the best of it.
Except it's already there. Let's not play revisionist history. It's there, and the city is planning to expand it. Isn't that expansion basically set in stone at this point?
City hall is also a failure, but in 2014 we shouldn't be making arguments to still save Scollay Square. We have what we have, and need to look forward and make the best of it.
fattony
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
I'm going out on a limb to stand up for the Seaport for a minute. The BCEC reflects poor urbanism, but the stuff around it doesn't. And the BCEC has been the most important thing in the Seaport for a long time. That is barely true anymore and is definitely not going to be in the near future.
Walk out on Congress or Seaport Blvd and look at the forest of cranes. Then look down at the vast sea of parking spaces that still exist. The Seaport is going to be freaking awesome. It is going to be as urban and walkable as any neighborhood in Boston except the most ye olde tyme bits, regardless of oversized intersections. The worst things about Inman or Kenmore are their giant intersections, but they are still freaking awesome.
The convention center isn't going to be the heart of the district for long. It is going to end up as that box AT THE END OF THE SEAPORT because the acres and acres of land between there and downtown will have filled in with much more stuff.
This parking garage is clearly a mistake, but not a fatal one. Just like the big roads - it is not the best way to do things but it isn't the end of the world either. But the Seaport - which already doesn't suck IMO - isn't going to suck because of a 1700 space garage.
And that is the nicest thing you'll ever hear me say about a garage.
I'm going out on a limb to stand up for the Seaport for a minute. The BCEC reflects poor urbanism, but the stuff around it doesn't. And the BCEC has been the most important thing in the Seaport for a long time. That is barely true anymore and is definitely not going to be in the near future.
Walk out on Congress or Seaport Blvd and look at the forest of cranes. Then look down at the vast sea of parking spaces that still exist. The Seaport is going to be freaking awesome. It is going to be as urban and walkable as any neighborhood in Boston except the most ye olde tyme bits, regardless of oversized intersections. The worst things about Inman or Kenmore are their giant intersections, but they are still freaking awesome.
The convention center isn't going to be the heart of the district for long. It is going to end up as that box AT THE END OF THE SEAPORT because the acres and acres of land between there and downtown will have filled in with much more stuff.
This parking garage is clearly a mistake, but not a fatal one. Just like the big roads - it is not the best way to do things but it isn't the end of the world either. But the Seaport - which already doesn't suck IMO - isn't going to suck because of a 1700 space garage.
And that is the nicest thing you'll ever hear me say about a garage.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
To me, I just see it as a slap in the face to air quality and environmental concerns. As I mentioned earlier, the Seaport has been abused for decades as a workaround for the Clean Air Act-mandated parking freeze in downtown Boston. Having the cars still show up and park just a mile away doesn't help with air quality. Legally, they are probably sound, with whatever dirty politics was played ages ago. But that doesn't make the pollution disappear. So I've been happy to see that the parking lots have been going away over the years and been replaced by urban uses. It's been slowly rectifying an environmental injustice.
But that's for naught if they end up rebuilding all those parking spots and attracting all those cars with their fume-spitting tailpipes. And at nearly $50,000 a parking space, too. Wow.
To me, I just see it as a slap in the face to air quality and environmental concerns. As I mentioned earlier, the Seaport has been abused for decades as a workaround for the Clean Air Act-mandated parking freeze in downtown Boston. Having the cars still show up and park just a mile away doesn't help with air quality. Legally, they are probably sound, with whatever dirty politics was played ages ago. But that doesn't make the pollution disappear. So I've been happy to see that the parking lots have been going away over the years and been replaced by urban uses. It's been slowly rectifying an environmental injustice.
But that's for naught if they end up rebuilding all those parking spots and attracting all those cars with their fume-spitting tailpipes. And at nearly $50,000 a parking space, too. Wow.
tocoto
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
Since it's a fait accompli, the best thing to do is work to mitigate its impact by making it look half decent by putting a park on top, or building housing or a hotel or whatever on top, and building something interesting along the sides.
Since it's a fait accompli, the best thing to do is work to mitigate its impact by making it look half decent by putting a park on top, or building housing or a hotel or whatever on top, and building something interesting along the sides.
FortPointGuy
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
It will be bordered/blocked by a HQ hotel on the south side and Waterside Place on the north.
It seems to make sense that a parking garage would be necessary to provide parking spots for folks looking to go to the current (and future expanded) convention center. And it covers up a really ugly gravel lot that is sandwiched by highway ramps.
If it's ugly, damn it. If it's tolerable, probably won't be too bad.
Frankly I'm surprised anyone is surprised at all by this. Either the Globe or Herald said 3000 spots in the Seaport have disappeared in the last few years. Within one, maybe two more RE cycles the existing lots will probably be all gone. Granted there will be spots under most of the commercial buildings, but they will command a premium as the Financial District garages do.
I agree with the prior comment about the BCEC starting to take a backseat (finally) to a rejuvenated Fort Point, Fan Pier, Seaport Square and Pier 4 (and let's not forget about the Sausage Parcel!). At full build this will not be very noticeable, but necessary for people, particularly locals who aren't flying in and staying in a hotel, to attend an event at the BCEC.
While I understand that many urbanists on this board would prefer everyone ride their bicycle or take a train into the area, that is easier said than done for someone coming down from NH or Maine to attend, say, the annual boat show. Tell them they need to park in Woburn, take the rail to North Station and figure it out from there. They'll just stay home and remember why they (or their parents) moved from Massachusetts in the first place. Fracking and hybrid cars undermine the oil argument and also the rising cost of gasoline.
As a local to the neighborhood, I would be flipping out if this was being put in a more valuable (from an urban, not economic view), more conspicuous place. But the location is logical, out-of-the-way and the garage seems like it will be covered up by the rest of the pending development.
My two cents.
It will be bordered/blocked by a HQ hotel on the south side and Waterside Place on the north.
It seems to make sense that a parking garage would be necessary to provide parking spots for folks looking to go to the current (and future expanded) convention center. And it covers up a really ugly gravel lot that is sandwiched by highway ramps.
If it's ugly, damn it. If it's tolerable, probably won't be too bad.
Frankly I'm surprised anyone is surprised at all by this. Either the Globe or Herald said 3000 spots in the Seaport have disappeared in the last few years. Within one, maybe two more RE cycles the existing lots will probably be all gone. Granted there will be spots under most of the commercial buildings, but they will command a premium as the Financial District garages do.
I agree with the prior comment about the BCEC starting to take a backseat (finally) to a rejuvenated Fort Point, Fan Pier, Seaport Square and Pier 4 (and let's not forget about the Sausage Parcel!). At full build this will not be very noticeable, but necessary for people, particularly locals who aren't flying in and staying in a hotel, to attend an event at the BCEC.
While I understand that many urbanists on this board would prefer everyone ride their bicycle or take a train into the area, that is easier said than done for someone coming down from NH or Maine to attend, say, the annual boat show. Tell them they need to park in Woburn, take the rail to North Station and figure it out from there. They'll just stay home and remember why they (or their parents) moved from Massachusetts in the first place. Fracking and hybrid cars undermine the oil argument and also the rising cost of gasoline.
As a local to the neighborhood, I would be flipping out if this was being put in a more valuable (from an urban, not economic view), more conspicuous place. But the location is logical, out-of-the-way and the garage seems like it will be covered up by the rest of the pending development.
My two cents.
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
In addition to below-grade parking at nearly every new construction site, I think this will be the 3rd above-grade garage approved or built in past few years.
1. Channel Center (970 spaces)
2. D St at West 1st St (1,350 spaces) BCEC land, eminent domain taking at former approved Cathartes residential site.
3. Massport (1,700 spaces)
Lessons learned from Harbor Garage?
In addition to below-grade parking at nearly every new construction site, I think this will be the 3rd above-grade garage approved or built in past few years.
1. Channel Center (970 spaces)
2. D St at West 1st St (1,350 spaces) BCEC land, eminent domain taking at former approved Cathartes residential site.
3. Massport (1,700 spaces)
Lessons learned from Harbor Garage?
C
cozzyd
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
How much can a parking spot hope to net in a month? $200? $300? Let's assume we can allow a similar subsidy to public transit, then it will only take 75 years for it to pay for itself!
What a bargain!
How much can a parking spot hope to net in a month? $200? $300? Let's assume we can allow a similar subsidy to public transit, then it will only take 75 years for it to pay for itself!
What a bargain!
citylover94
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport
What exactly makes the seaport so "special" or different from downtown a couple blocks away that most people on here seem to want the seaport to be similar to?
I realize previously it was just parking but that doesn't make it a good idea to try and replace those parking spots even partially as it has been proven that without as much parking people will still find a way to get there or they won't and thats okay too Boston isn't exactly reliant on a thousand tourists from Maine and NH plus I guarantee if they wont drive in they won't automatically not go as there are these things called buses that work pretty well. Additionally someday it is almost certain that all or most of these aboveground garages will be redeveloped.
Also is it really a good use of monetary resources to spend $50,000 per parking spot that is a ridiculous amount of money to benefit a pretty small portion of the population that will probably be redeveloped in 20-50 years which is before it could possibly pay for itself?
What exactly makes the seaport so "special" or different from downtown a couple blocks away that most people on here seem to want the seaport to be similar to?
I realize previously it was just parking but that doesn't make it a good idea to try and replace those parking spots even partially as it has been proven that without as much parking people will still find a way to get there or they won't and thats okay too Boston isn't exactly reliant on a thousand tourists from Maine and NH plus I guarantee if they wont drive in they won't automatically not go as there are these things called buses that work pretty well. Additionally someday it is almost certain that all or most of these aboveground garages will be redeveloped.
Also is it really a good use of monetary resources to spend $50,000 per parking spot that is a ridiculous amount of money to benefit a pretty small portion of the population that will probably be redeveloped in 20-50 years which is before it could possibly pay for itself?