Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
I can't believe the price discrepancy Boston vs Cambridge
$56 vs $66 Sq-Ft
That's pretty significant--

Saw this in the comment field.
rkiley212/25/16 08:04 PM
The Seaport presents a notoriously difficult for those who work there, the Silver line is not as reliable as Red Orange, Blue or Red lines and traffic is horrid.
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The funny part is the whole article goes on saying how the Seaport is the new "place to be" and that's why companies are moving out of Downtown, but I think this figure ($56 v. $66) proves them wrong.. that the "place to be" for new or hip companies is still Kendall Sq/Cambridge.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

stefalarchitect said:
The funny part is the whole article goes on saying how the Seaport is the new "place to be" and that's why companies are moving out of Downtown, but I think this figure ($56 v. $66) proves them wrong.. that the "place to be" for new or hip companies is still Kendall Sq/Cambridge.
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Stefalarchitect -- as usual its more complicated than just comparing locations without context

The Cambridge [Kendall] market is driven by the need / desire to be in walking distance of MIT. Therefore if you are a Biotech / Pharma with a lot of R&D -- you want to be in Kendall. The same is true for Tech / New Tech companies researching or developing such as Google or Schlumberger or Shell or Facebook.

However, if you are Microsoft with a contingent of R&D [@ the NERD] and also a regional business office, then you have a decision to make -- and they made it. Microsoft moved a number of its non-directly R&D folks -- sales and marketing for the region to Burlington [the former Nokia complex]. On the other hand Microsoft has expanded the number of R&D and other tech-support function people into the two main spaces it has in Cambridge especially [the NERD].

Recently, VC's and some other entities supporting the start-up part of the R&D sector are relocating to Cambridge [although not necessarily Kendall]. Kendall doesn't offer much to attract the traditional financial management, banking and law firms from the Financial District or the Back Bay -- they wont pay the premium.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
I can't believe the price discrepancy Boston vs Cambridge
$56 vs $66 Sq-Ft
That's pretty significant--
Click to expand...

So I just received the Transwestern 4Q16 OfficeSTATus report, which I believe is the source of the Globe numbers.

The numbers are reporting Class A Office Space in each market. Cambridge is killing Boston in rates!

Boston CBD Class A Office asking rates: $55.09 per square foot

Cambridge Class A Office asking rates: $65.62 per square foot

East Cambridge sub-market (which includes Kendall Square) Class A Office asking rates: $76.93 per square foot.

East Cambridge (Kendall) vacancy rate is also at a dysfunctional 2.7% -- insane!

https://download.transwestern.com/flyers/Boston/4Q16_OfficeSTATus_Transwestern.pdf
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

JeffDowntown said:
So I just received the Transwestern 4Q16 OfficeSTATus report, which I believe is the source of the Globe numbers.

The numbers are reporting Class A Office Space in each market. Cambridge is killing Boston in rates!

Boston CBD Class A Office asking rates: $55.09 per square foot

Cambridge Class A Office asking rates: $65.62 per square foot

East Cambridge sub-market (which includes Kendall Square) Class A Office asking rates: $76.93 per square foot.

East Cambridge (Kendall) vacancy rate is also at a dysfunctional 2.7% -- insane!

https://download.transwestern.com/flyers/Boston/4Q16_OfficeSTATus_Transwestern.pdf
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Looks to me we have a new sheriff in town. --Cambridge Ma--
I heard rumors flying around about them building a skyscraper:
Cambridge ponders high-rise rules for Kendall Square
Boston Globe
The Volpe-National Transportation Systems Center in Cambridge’s Kendall Square currently includes a 13-floor building. One city councilor says a 1,000-foot tower should be authorized.

Imagine if Cambridge builds the first 1,000ft tower over Boston. That would be embarrassing in my opinion.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
Looks to me we have a new sheriff in town. --Cambridge Ma--
I heard rumors flying around about them building a skyscraper:
Cambridge ponders high-rise rules for Kendall Square
Boston Globe
The Volpe-National Transportation Systems Center in Cambridge’s Kendall Square currently includes a 13-floor building. One city councilor says a 1,000-foot tower should be authorized.

Imagine if Cambridge builds the first 1,000ft tower over Boston. That would be embarrassing in my opinion.
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Riff -- that wont happen -- the story is quite old and predates the Feds putting out their RFP

Subsequent to that -- MIT was named the master developer for Volpe

First you have to recognize that the Volpe2 will not be a tall tower as the form factor they favor is large floor plates [Pru sized]. The Feds want about 400k sq ft -- Roughly the same size as the GE HQ [12 stories + the 2 brick and beams]

That would translate into about 10 stories [Pru floor plates are about one acre]. Now Volpe might want some just office and small conference rooms which could be accommodated in a thinner mini tower on top of a pedestal -- so you could get to 15 stories or so [5 story pedestal with 10 story minitower].

That leaves a residential tower as a possibility -- unless you find another Four Seasons willing to provide about 20 floors of hotel occupancy below -- the most recent residences in Kendall area either under construction or proposed are in the 20's of stories

I would imagine that any possible tall tower which MIT would favor would be about the size of the Pierce [approx 350 to 400 ft including the mechanicals] -- still a Giant for Cambridge and easily ID-ed in a Google Satellite Image
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Two quick comments.

1. Joe Cronin transferred the deed from one holding company to another, today. (Whiskey Priest project) for $1. New holding company. Still him, though, listed in paperwork. Not that interesting of news but if he's spending money on lawyers to file deeds, hopefully showing continued movement.

2. The Globe reported that Waterside Place is going to turn the "innovation space" at street-level into regular retail space. They say they couldn't find start-ups / new companies who wanted the space (7,000 sf) at the price they were offering, $40 / sf, vs. $65 / sf market rate. (Total space available was 10,500 sf but S. Boston Health Center took 3,000 sf and opened an office a couple months ago.)

No doubt!

I don't know of any small businesses who want to pay anywhere near $40 / sf. I considered it, myself, as real estate space, but ... unlikely. It would have been 1,500 sf or so, but $60,000 for "start-up" space is impossible, even though they were likely to accept me as "innovative". I would have had to build out the space, too!

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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

$40 psf, plus tenant fit up? I never thought of bankruptcy as "start-up innovation", unless Bialystok and Blum are looking for space.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Maybe a real small shop grocer will come in now
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

JeffDowntown said:
That is a lot of cost for a grocer to cover on their thin margins. It would need to be a super high end shop!
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I would assume the Drew Company (LL) would provide a warm dark shell and a significant tenant allowance ($25-$40psf). However, from a LL perspective, they most likely can find another dry goods use for a significantly lower capital cost. I assume this is how the JPace deal at Park Lane and the Frank Anthony deal on Fan Pier were structured.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

tobyjug said:
unless Bialystok and Blum are looking for space.
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Yes!
First, Oliver Wendell Holmes quote in the bike thread, and now this!
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

My list of Seaport / Fort Point / Innovation / South Boston Waterfront / Parking Lot District projects I fear won't start construction any time soon:

- 660 Summer Street, Harbinger Hotel
- 150 Seaport Boulevard
- Drydock Avenue, Parcel Q1
- 315 Northern Avenue, Parcel K
- 501 Congress Street, Waterside Place Phase 1B
- 399 Congress Street, The Residences at the Sausage Parcel
- 145 Seaport Boulevard, Block M
- 318 Northern Avenue

- Fan Pier Parcel E
- Fan Pier Parcel H
- Seaport Square Parcel D
- Seaport Square Parcel G
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

From what I know, 150 Seaport is full steam ahead at this point. Only red tape holding them back. Waterside is full go, and Block M already has construction equipment staged in the parking lots.

I agree some of the further out projects may get delayed so the developers can gauge the market demand i.e. office, resi, or hotel
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

falcon42 said:
From what I know, 150 Seaport is full steam ahead at this point. Only red tape holding them back. Waterside is full go, and Block M already has construction equipment staged in the parking lots.

I agree some of the further out projects may get delayed so the developers can gauge the market demand i.e. office, resi, or hotel
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FWIW...that equipment on Parcel M has been sitting there since at least late October. Since the machinery showed up, that site has been awfully quiet and there has been next to no press on the development.

Isn't that equipment usually rented and isn't it costing somebody money to have it sitting their ideal for weeks and now months on end?
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

JohnAKeith said:
Two quick comments.


2. The Globe reported that Waterside Place is going to turn the "innovation space" at street-level into regular retail space. They say they couldn't find start-ups / new companies who wanted the space (7,000 sf) at the price they were offering, $40 / sf, vs. $65 / sf market rate. (Total space available was 10,500 sf but S. Boston Health Center took 3,000 sf and opened an office a couple months ago.)

No doubt!

I don't know of any small businesses who want to pay anywhere near $40 / sf. I considered it, myself, as real estate space, but ... unlikely. It would have been 1,500 sf or so, but $60,000 for "start-up" space is impossible, even though they were likely to accept me as "innovative". I would have had to build out the space, too!
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JohnAKeith -- One quick comment --only ridiculously over capitalized Silicon Valley "start-ups" would ever be interested in paying that kind of money

Boston start-ups, even the well capitalized in their early stages would look for an unrenovated brick and beam warehouse

The less well capitalized would look for a "just short of being condemned" brick and beam warehouse to host the banquet tables and folding chairs -- been there done that several times
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

More "start-ups" I see going into the REIT owned incubator buildings where the backbone equipment is already provided.

The really small start-ups try to get into an incubator like LabCentral that has employee and revenue limits on who can occupy.

Over the last few years I have been a part of fitting out 620 Memorial Drive, 1030 Mass Ave., 200 Sidney, 40 Erie, and 50 Hampshire which have all utilized the similar "we provide all the backbone equipment and services, and you just move in and fit out on the cheap". Anything special or extra comes out of the tenant pocket, but can sometimes be rolled into the backbone system if it will benefit the building owners marketability. They might split the cost.

Start-ups don't often buy or lease an existing falling down building anymore. They do that when they have some more capital from their leased start up space.

Each of those buildings I mentioned above are all 100% occupied by a mix of start-ups, smaller companies, and outsider companies looking for a Kendall foothold.

The shelled out "innovation" space that Menino pushed, offered nothing to a prospective tenant, and was a failure before it even started. District Hall at least offers something to the local "innovators". The innovation spaces, offer nothing but blank street walls.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Menino was political buffoon:---

Steven Jobs and Wozniak start-up space was garage.
Zuckerberg start-up space was a dorm room.

Company's that finally get VC funding are not going to spend 40% of that capital for rental space.
Maybe companies that are beginning to experience insane growth but a good CEO would not risk this unless the rental space or the location had to do with the business model.

Menino Innovation district was just a ploy to justify given taxpayers money to the developers/corporations that wanted to build in the Seaport to call it Job creation.

Vertex goal was to stay in Cambridge Ma but they got a great deal from Fallon because of all the tax incentives Menino/Democrats gave Fallon to get this started. (this is what they call gaming the system)

That's it.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
Menino was political buffoon:---

Steven Jobs and Wozniak start-up space was garage.
Zuckerberg start-up space was a dorm room.

Company's that finally get VC funding are not going to spend 40% of that capital for rental space.
Maybe companies that are beginning to experience insane growth but a good CEO would not risk this unless the rental space or the location had to do with the business model.

Menino Innovation district was just a ploy to justify given taxpayers money to the developers/corporations that wanted to build in the Seaport to call it Job creation.

Vertex goal was to stay in Cambridge Ma but they got a great deal from Fallon because of all the tax incentives Menino/Democrats gave Fallon to get this started. (this is what they call gaming the system)

That's it.
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Riff -- you got part of it

The problem with the "Innovation Space" besides its cost was that really early stage startups don't care about the street vibe -- what they want is a nice work space -- it doesn't matter whether its in a basement, or a penthouse behind the freight elevator machinery -- I've had companies start in both. In fact to a certain extent anonymity and privacy is exactly what in needed when you are very young.

Thus for example a well known very early stage start-up did it fabrication in a relatively public incubator like space -- But when it came to the crucial experimentation that led to the ground shaking patent -- that was done in a attic above an apartment.

Oh for the curious -- the above describes the invention of the Telephone in Boston. The two locations were: Charles Williams, Jr. Co, @ 109 Court st. where Watson fabbed the equipment, and Bell's apartment and lab at 5 Exeter Place -- where "Mr Watson, Come here I want you" was uttered.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

 
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