Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[elemenoh]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

my estimate right now among new(er) housing in the Seaport comes to at least 6,694 new residents since 2012.

That assumes people are actually living in the condo units. I expect a lot of them at these astronomical prices will be investment properties that aren't primary residences.

It will be interesting to see actual data on the number of people who end up living here... census data, voter registration, school enrollment and whatnot.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

That assumes people are actually living in the condo units. I expect a lot of them at these astronomical prices will be investment properties that aren't primary residences.

It will be interesting to see actual data on the number of people who end up living here... census data, voter registration, school enrollment and whatnot.

An "investment property" that you pay condo fees and property tax on while leaving empty is a pretty crappy investment. Typically "investment properties" are rented out, in which case people still live in them.

 

[jl326]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

An "investment property" that you pay condo fees and property tax on while leaving empty is a pretty crappy investment. Typically "investment properties" are rented out, in which case people still live in them.

Yup.. and if one were to look into the public records to see the property taxes paid, they are quite "astronomical" indeed.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

If someone can build upon this please, my estimate right now among new(er) housing in the Seaport comes to at least 6,694 new residents since 2012.

Don't forget Parcel K with 304 units and 100 Pier 4 Apartments with 357 units.

So that's another 714 from 100 Pier 4 and 608 from Parcel K for 1,322... pushes the number to just over 8,000.

I'd add another 934 from 467 units at Park Lane.

Thanks a lot. Very impressive, encouraging numbers. The narrative that the Seaport somehow represents illegitimate/failed planning is total horse shit. People who can't accept that Boston is an urban habitat and will act in its best interests to maintain its economic health can pound sand.

 

[CSTH]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Thanks a lot. Very impressive, encouraging numbers. The narrative that the Seaport somehow represents illegitimate/failed planning is total horse shit. People who can't accept that Boston is an urban habitat and will act in its best interests to maintain its economic health can pound sand.

The words 'Boston is' in your post would be more accurately articulated as 'a handful of well-connected developers own'.

viz. "People who can't accept that [a handful of well-connected developers own] an urban habitat and will act in [their] best interest to maintain [their] economic health can pound sand".

 

[CSTH]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

An "investment property" that you pay condo fees and property tax on while leaving empty is a pretty crappy investment. Typically "investment properties" are rented out, in which case people still live in them.

...NB the numbers look better if your unit of account is an illiquid, depreciating foreign currency...

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

...NB the numbers look better if your unit of account is an illiquid, depreciating foreign currency...

Huh? If one has the means to buy a condo in Boston then one clearly has access to the US financial system. You're way better off stashing cash in, say, any broad-based ETF than you are in an empty condo with its monthly fees and annual tax assessment.

The entire notion that Boston condos are bought up by rich foreigners as a means to store sketchy wealth is an absolute fantasy. As discussed approximately six thousand times on this forum, there is ZERO evidence that this is happening at any scale that would at all affect anything.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Huh? If one has the means to buy a condo in Boston then one clearly has access to the US financial system. You're way better off stashing cash in, say, any broad-based ETF than you are in an empty condo with its monthly fees and annual tax assessment.

The entire notion that Boston condos are bought up by rich foreigners as a means to store sketchy wealth is an absolute fantasy. As discussed approximately six thousand times on this forum, there is ZERO evidence that this is happening at any scale thrat would at all affect anything.

I personally don’t have the data on who is buying these condos but it ain’t the regular working class, local Bostonians or the poor.

There was a Chinese investor who bought 8 or 10 units in the milenial tower

I’m betting it’s
#1young professionals with family money
#2 foreign investors/buyers
#3 rich people

 

[TallIsGood]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

There are lots of professionals in the area too. Newly minted lawyers can get $190k to start right out of law school at big firms.

 

[JANAM]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

There are lots of professionals in the area too. Newly minted lawyers can get $190k to start right out of law school at big firms.

The vast majority of buyers at 50 liberty and One Dalton are empty nesters from mostly the western suburbs of Boston.

 

[jl326]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I personally don’t have the data on who is buying these condos but it ain’t the regular working class, local Bostonians or the poor.

There was a Chinese investor who bought 8 or 10 units in the milenial tower

I’m betting it’s
#1young professionals with family money
#2 foreign investors/buyers
#3 rich people

Sigh.. the one and only thing you've established as fact is that you truly have no grasp on the reality of the demographics (e.g., # of locals). Good job. Please, either understand the real facts or at least stop making yourself look foolish with these silly posts.

 

[Rover]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Claiming "rich foreign investors" are leaving condos empty is classic NIMBY boilerplate for their goal of opposing all major developments. Consider the following:

1) There is no actual evidence that this is occurring
2) Even if it was, who cares? The city is still reaping the benefits of the property taxes that the owners must pay regardless of how often they occupy their apartment.

It reminds me of the constant refrain that Don Chiofaro "paid too much" for the HT garage, when the facts are he's making a profit every year and the value of the property has gone up, which is the exact opposite definition of paying too much for something. Idiotic arguments like this need to be squashed, dumped and then flushed.

Finally, people don't seem to realize how much money even regular folks in this town are making. If a professional couple is pulling in 125K a year each, not an ungodly sum for the Boston metro area, they're probably taking home like 12K a month after taxes, health insurance, etc. Even with day care, half of that amount (6K a month) toward a mortgage gives you a pretty sizable pot of money to work with at today's interest rates.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The vast majority of buyers at 50 liberty and One Dalton are empty nesters from mostly the western suburbs of Boston.

I have a friend who grew up on a cul-de-sac in Lexington full of 5-bedroom colonials. On the street where he grew up and his parents still live, the abutting neighbors on both sides have downsized and moved into Millennium Tower.

For all the talk about Millennials and young professionals, an underappreciated driving demand base for these new urban "luxury" condos is baby boomers in their 60s. Retired upper-middle-class professionals whose kids are out of the house and who have paid off the 30-year mortgage they took out in the 80s are still 100% "local," even if they don't go by Sully or Murph. People like this can easily have $1 million + in equity in the suburban homes they've owned for decades where they raised their kids. Trading in yardwork and maintenance for an all-inclusive condo can be very appealing, especially as they age, and given the dearth of smaller homes and condos in the suburbs the City is where these people increasingly move.

Finally, people don't seem to realize how much money even regular folks in this town are making. If a professional couple is pulling in 125K a year each, not an ungodly sum for the Boston metro area, they're probably taking home like 12K a month after taxes, health insurance, etc. Even with day care, half of that amount (6K a month) toward a mortgage gives you a pretty sizable pot of money to work with at today's interest rates.

Right. Even your "stereotypical middle class couple" of a public school teacher and a firefighter can easily make close to $200 grand in combined income in Boston.

 

[DominusNovus]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Claiming "rich foreign investors" are leaving condos empty is classic NIMBY boilerplate for their goal of opposing all major developments. Consider the following:

1) There is no actual evidence that this is occurring
2) Even if it was, who cares? The city is still reaping the benefits of the property taxes that the owners must pay regardless of how often they occupy their apartment.

It reminds me of the constant refrain that Don Chiofaro "paid too much" for the HT garage, when the facts are he's making a profit every year and the value of the property has gone up, which is the exact opposite definition of paying too much for something. Idiotic arguments like this need to be squashed, dumped and then flushed.

Finally, people don't seem to realize how much money even regular folks in this town are making. If a professional couple is pulling in 125K a year each, not an ungodly sum for the Boston metro area, they're probably taking home like 12K a month after taxes, health insurance, etc. Even with day care, half of that amount (6K a month) toward a mortgage gives you a pretty sizable pot of money to work with at today's interest rates.

That math really doesn’t add up - 12k a month after taxes would imply 144k a year after taxes, rather than 125k before. If a household is earning 125k, then they’re taking home about 90k, or about 7.5k a month (that is a very rough estimate). From there, all the other bills come out.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

That math really doesn’t add up - 12k a month after taxes would imply 144k a year after taxes, rather than 125k before. If a household is earning 125k, then they’re taking home about 90k, or about 7.5k a month (that is a very rough estimate). From there, all the other bills come out.

"If a professional couple is pulling in 125K a year each" - that's $250k before taxes.

$125k combined income is only about $63k / year each. That's around what a 22-year old college grad would expect to make in his or her first job out of school in Boston in 2018. An established professional couple in Boston would expect to make much more than that.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sigh.. the one and only thing you've established as fact is that you truly have no grasp on the reality of the demographics (e.g., # of locals). Good job. Please, either understand the real facts or at least stop making yourself look foolish with these silly posts.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...oney-magnet/keC5sjXE546tpvGmGsTVlM/story.html

I guess the globe might be lying:

China, Bingyi Chen, who lives in a modest townhouse in Concord and has bought at least 16 condos on behalf of investors in his native country, according to property records and his real estate agent. He paid $15.6 million in total. All cash.

The only thing the Boston Locals did was give Millennial Group 12 Million in tax breaks. (Hopefully that will help them with their situation in San Francisco with the sinking tower)
Like I said if your going to give tax breaks give them to all developments at this point. It creates Jobs right? Why should anybody take a risk on a dream or a vision. Let the taxpayers build the dream instead at no risk.

Thanks for your advice by the way.

 

[jklo]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Wouldn't be surprised if there were 4-5 Adults living in one of those "luxury" 2 bedrooms. Wouldn't be surprised if several of those units were on AirBnB or similar.

 

[DominusNovus]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

"If a professional couple is pulling in 125K a year each" - that's $250k before taxes.

$125k combined income is only about $63k / year each. That's around what a 22-year old college grad would expect to make in his or her first job out of school in Boston in 2018. An established professional couple in Boston would expect to make much more than that.

Ah, missed the ‘each’

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...oney-magnet/keC5sjXE546tpvGmGsTVlM/story.html

I guess the globe might be lying:

The very next quote in that article says that the units are rented out. So people (probably "locals") live in those units; they're not empty.

Who cares what the ownership structure is? Whether the owner lives in Beijing or Belmont, the residents still live in Boston.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The very next quote in that article says that the units are rented out. So people (probably "locals") live in those units; they're not empty.

Who cares what the ownership structure is? Whether the owner lives in Beijing or Belmont, the residents still live in Boston.

I never said I cared what the owner does with the units they buy. That's Capitalism-- Real estate goes up and down--
I just responded that the 3 main demographic buyers in the Seaport are in my opinion without no data backup were.
#1 Young Professionals (With Mom & Dad's) Down payment
#2 Foreigner's
#3 Rich People

Then Somebody claimed I have no clue what I'm talking about.