Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[type001]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I agree with DarkFenX and JJ. What exactly is there to hate here when you have a model that is relative to the BackBay and you can't build over 220 ft for legitimate reasons?

 

[KentXie]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Generally when you plan on having more acres than buildings, the result will not be urban. Or fine grained. Or special at all.

The architecture sucks, too.

??? Is each plot the size of 1 acre? The buildings themselves can take up more than an acre of space and thus doesn't necessarily lead to something "less urban."

 

[commuter guy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

To restate Ablarc's mantra:

The footprints are too large. 19 buildings located over 20 blocks on 23 acres. Back Bay has hundreds and hundreds of buildings over this amount of space. It will be extremely difficult to recreate the visual vitality of the back bay using this template for development. It will likely have more in common with Kendall sq. than Back Bay when all is said and done.

But, that being said, it's definitely better than a parking lot.

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I was poking around looking at FP3 and Fan Pier websites, and FP3 had a list of developments in the area leading me to 368 Congress (next door, also by Berkeley Investments), which had this spectacularly awesome map of all development in the Seaport area, color-coded by project status. Big props to whoever did this, it's exactly the kind of thing we could use here!

The link:

http://368congress.com/FORT%20POINT%20future%20368.pdf

 

[czsz]

Re: South Boston Seaport

This map is horrifying. Look at all the unnecessary parkland - every other block. And Waterside Place appears to have survived in a rump form that won't even cover the highway. Superblocks and empty space all around.

Fortunately, it also appears to be old. The Renaissance is still under construction here, and Fan Pier hasn't started. Is Seaport Square still on, because from what I've seen, its plans were better than whatever's going on in that link.

 

[blade_bltz]

Re: South Boston Seaport

So I assume this 'Final 100 Acres' mega-development is just a pipe dream?

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

CZ-the only parkland I see is either already existing, part of the Fan Pier plan, or not actually part of a development scheme. The blocks don't represent the actual footprints, just the location, owner, and status of the development.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Fortunately, it also appears to be old. The Renaissance is still under construction here, and Fan Pier hasn't started. Is Seaport Square still on, because from what I've seen, its plans were better than whatever's going on in that link.

As of right now, Seaport Square is moving forward. Additional MEPA filing is going on now for the project, and the first phase is still pushing forward. As far as I understand it. Conceptual studies are being done across the entire site, and a couple of buildings have been designed and look pretty good from what I understand.

I have some newer massing studies and whatnot, but cannot share at this time.

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Nooooo, Seaport Square = Ugly!

 

[Boston02124]

Re: South Boston Seaport

could'nt find this(building FP3) thread so put this here

 

[Shepard]

Re: Liberty Wharf (Jimmy's Harborside)

Since this seems to be the active seaport thread (or maybe this is best placed under transit and infrastructure?) UniversalHub linked to this globe article a number of days ago - I found it interesting but astonishingly retrograde.

Boston has big plans for port
Hub applies for stimulus funds
By Casey Ross, Globe Staff | October 27, 2009

Boston officials are launching a multiyear effort to revitalize the city?s industrial port that includes expanding the cruise ship terminal, restoring freight rail service, and rebuilding docks to help compete for lucrative ship repair contracts.

The city-owned Marine Industrial Park is hamstrung by an outdated road and rail network and crumbling wharf structures that were largely built for the military in the early 1940s. City officials believe an $84 million upgrade financed by the government would trigger related investments by private businesses that would expand and redevelop under-used property in the area.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority has applied for federal stimulus money to pay for the upgrades, and yesterday Mayor Thomas M. Menino launched a campaign to win the funds by hosting a tour of the port area for US Representative Stephen F. Lynch and other officials who will lobby on the city?s behalf in Washington, D.C.

?This is an economic engine for our city,?? said Menino, who is seeking reelection next Tuesday. ?A lot of different types of businesses are starting to come here and we should use [the stimulus program] as an opportunity to push forward as best we can.??

The 190-acre Marine Industrial Park, at the eastern edge of the South Boston waterfront, is owned and managed by the Boston Redevelopment Authority. It includes the cruise ship terminal at Black Falcon Pier and dozens of businesses housed in other industrial buildings, from local printers and seafood merchants to chains such as Au Bon Pain and Legal Sea Foods.

Although it already handles substantial business now, the cruise ship terminal is too small to accommodate baggage and passenger screening needed for large vessels. The city wants to build a second terminal that could accommodate as many as three vessels simultaneously, including the world?s largest cruise ships, which are more than 1,100 feet long and typically contain multiple restaurants and nightclubs, basketball courts, rock-climbing walls, and other facilities.

City officials said the two terminals combined would be able to process ships carrying more than 4,000 passengers at one time.

A second component of the city?s plan would be to reintroduce freight-rail service that would transport products and supplies to businesses operating throughout the industrial park. Currently, businesses there ship in and out using heavy trucks, which are more expensive than rail and pollute more.

?Rail would provide an environmental benefit and a cost benefit for us,?? said Dan Kenary, president and cofounder of Harpoon Brewery. ?Some of our malted barley comes from Canada and the upper Midwest, and anecdotally our suppliers tell us we could save some money if we take it here by rail.??

The BRA?s plan calls for restoring about 2,700 feet of rail track, and building another 5,900 feet to reach throughout the industrial park. The new tracks would accommodate 6,000 rail cars of freight a year, thus eliminating the need for 24,000 truck trips, according to the proposal.

Other components of the port plan include rebuilding three dilapidated jetties to receive and repair cargo ships, and improve the road system within the industrial park.

The city?s grant application predicted that the $84 million in improvements would result in $380 million in private investment and the creation of more than 5,000 jobs over the next 20 years. Federal officials are expected to decide on the funding request in February.

Lynch, a South Boston Democrat whose district includes the industrial park, pledged to spearhead the effort in Congress, where he said competition for a dwindling pool of stimulus dollars will be fierce.

?These are basic infrastructure needs that have been here for a long, long time,?? Lynch said of the proposed improvements. ?I don?t think there?s any collection of projects in the country that have the solid foundation that these do.??

During yesterday?s tour, officials emphasized that the improvement projects have already received required environmental permits and other approvals needed to begin construction in 2010.

?We are actually shovel ready,?? said Lawrence Mammoli, director of engineering and facilities management for the BRA. ?We will be putting people to work almost immediately upon receiving these funds.??

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.

 

[GW2500]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I really hope we get the money, this is a good investment for Boston.

 

[Shepard]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Really? I don't agree. Why are we proposing to run trains now to the seaport again? Oh right, because

?Some of our malted barley comes from Canada and the upper Midwest, and anecdotally our suppliers tell us we could save some money if we take it here by rail.??

...Huh?

Aside from, um, Canadian barley, how much freight really comes through the port that can't be trucked right onto or from the pike?

And seriously, we're going to run a freight train to ship in barley, but passenger trains arrive in the form of a 15mph bus?

Boston needs to admit the seaport era is behind us. The London Docklands should be the model for the future.

 

[jass]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Aside from, um, Canadian barley, how much freight really comes through the port that can't be trucked right onto or from the pike?

.

Isnt that the problem? Truck traffic, which will one day be coming from even further when the csx yard moves?

Theres already a rail line that runs past the BCC, I think this is an extension of that?

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I think all the rail is there isn't it? They just want it updated. Updating an existing rail line is obviously is 100x cheaper than a new heavy rail line. Not saying I agree with it, but I get it.

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

'fraid to say it, but Shepard is dead on. Shipping has past us by. The market for cruise ships coming to Boston is small, and the mayor needs to stop imagining that Boston is a true tourist destination. Redevelop it, just like the London Docklands. Potential for some extremely valuable waterfront property. When the economy starts to swing back, the city could sell all that land for a killing.

Now, if they want to talk about improving high-speed passenger rail, I'm all ears. Maybe a better solution would be to make a city like Worcester, Lowell, Springfield, New Bedford, or Fall River a freight center. It would be far less expensive, and create a far greater benefit to the state, for smaller cities to receive the influx of revenue from the shipping trade.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: South Boston Seaport

^I gotta completely disagree. Shipping hasn't "past" us by. The more trains and ships and the less trucks you use the more you save in shipping costs. Boston isn't the biggest port in the country, but the closer to the distribution point you get large loads the more money you make.

I think they're thinking about capturing more of the local traffic taking cruises to the warm south. Seems like a lot cruise out of NY making ppl either drive or fly down to hop on their boat. If they can make Black Falcon big enough to allow the bigger cruise ships in, the cruise lines will send them here and ppl won't have to travel to NY to get their boat.

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Why would a cruise line give up a slip in New York, for a slip in Boston? Why wouldn't a more efficient, newer heavy freight yard west of the city make more sense? It would allow more organized distribution across the entire region.

 

[jass]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Why would a cruise line give up a slip in New York, for a slip in Boston? .

Im assuming its cheaper to dock here?

Also, Boston does get regular cruise traffic in the fall. Ships usually start at NYC and make their way up the coast to canada stopping in boston and bar harbor.

No reason the round trip couldnt just start in Boston instead.


As for "make it like the docklands"....eh, have you folks ever been to the docklands? If you think kendall square is bad, I have very bad news for you.


"Why wouldn't a more efficient, newer heavy freight yard west of the city make more sense? "

Because its cheaper to ship by train than it is buy truck. If fuel costs do continue to go up (and they will) then youll see even more freight moving back to rail. You could probably plot CSX's profits and gas prices on the same chart and see a very positive correlation.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Potential for some extremely valuable waterfront property. When the economy starts to swing back, the city could sell all that land for a killing.

There's already enough available land in the Fan Pier area. For now I say let's try to make industrial uses flourish here, as it'll be a good few decades before we really need the land for the more dense stuff.