Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: South Boston Seaport

The major difference is that there is no superblocks in the Belfast plan and in European fashion, there is no grid.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Quite possible those little streets could wind up becoming service alleys a la Park Lane, though. Look closely and you'll see some lowrise lumps with garage entrances built in.

A lot of these European megadevelopments have much trendier architecture than the Seaport but come out just as bankrupt urbanistically.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^And a lot of them turn out to be just the opposite -- functional urban neighborhoods (ala Amsterdam, Hamburg).
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I'd say it's too early to tell with Hamburg. It's probably the prototypical "cool architecture, possibly poor urbanism" development.

Java Island in Amsterdam is really small and, since it's basically a moated residential enclave, really little more than a New Urbanist subdivision...again, it's sad that this is the best and maybe only precedent we have.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Ugh, that is depressing to look at (and wonder why we can't have it).
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

czsz said:
I'd say it's too early to tell with Hamburg. It's probably the prototypical "cool architecture, possibly poor urbanism" development.

Java Island in Amsterdam is really small and, since it's basically a moated residential enclave, really little more than a New Urbanist subdivision...again, it's sad that this is the best and maybe only precedent we have.
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Java Island really needs to be viewed as part of the larger waterfront reclamation effort -- I was actually referring to Sporenburg Island, it's neighbor.

Hamburg: agreed it's too early to tell but I'm hopeful.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

bdurden said:
^And a lot of them turn out to be just the opposite -- functional urban neighborhoods (ala Amsterdam, Hamburg).
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Success over time is largely based on land use, not architecture. The Seaport is not evolving as a neighborhood due to a rudderless vision, political considerations and market pressures.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

NYT features Seaport's Hamburg equivalent as a travel destination:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/travel/18Next.html

Here's a snippet to demonstrate the contrast:

There have been expensive mistakes and delays ? all witnessed by visitors drawn as much by its architecture as by its expanding construction costs. But the project, which has exceeded its initial budget by more than 200 million euros and its initial completion date by two years, is slowly taking its eventual shape: a glass wave 12 stories on one side and 18 on the other. When it?s finally done, the Elbphilharmonie will be HafenCity?s architectural crown jewel.

HafenCity itself won?t be finished for another 10 to 15 years. But since 2000, when Hamburg came up with the now nine-billion-euro master plan to transform 388 acres of its vast central harbor into a brand new district, increasing the size of the city center by 40 percent, things have been moving at a steady clip.

Richard Sennett, professor of sociology at New York University and author of ?The Conscience of the Eye: The Design and Social Life of Cities,? said of HafenCity recently: ?The western part of the project is state of the art and really intelligent. The sustainability is not just window dressing. It?s for real. They thought big in a way that makes sense in the future. And they managed to accomplish it by a kind of collective will of the city.?

Already Sandtorkai, one of the 10 neighborhoods that will make up HafenCity, is complete; 50 percent of the area is either under construction or ready for it to start. Roughly 1,500 people are already living in HafenCity, and about 6,000 people are commuting to work there.
...
Martin Haas, a partner in Behnisch Architekten, who oversaw both buildings, said that in the end, what is truly important to the people who live and use the HafenCity is not the splashy designer architecture but instead, ?the spaces in between the buildings.? He added: ?And in the HafenCity you find a lot of quality public spaces. You can see how important the urban planners understood the importance of that by seeing how much money was spent on designing public spaces.?
...
On the other hand, Mr. van den Broek said that even if the Elbphilharmonie ended up costing a billion euros, most people would eventually end up not caring, even if much of it comes from public financing.

?The Parisians also thought that the Eiffel Tower would cost too much,? he said. ?In 20 years, after the Elbphilharmonie is finally done, no one will consider it a waste of money anymore.?
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Some photos; overall, I think it still looks kinda Seaport-y, with slightly better architecture:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/07/14/travel/20100718HAFENCITY.html
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Sicilian said:
Success over time is largely based on land use, not architecture. The Seaport is not evolving as a neighborhood due to a rudderless vision, political considerations and market pressures.
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I would argue that success over time is most-closely related to having a population that actively embraces urbanity and uses the city's public spaces intensively.
Unfortunately Boston does not seem to have that.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

el raval said:
I would argue that success over time is most-closely related to having a population that actively embraces urbanity and uses the city's public spaces intensively.
Unfortunately Boston does not seem to have that.
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This is not true -- Bostonians have a long urban history, and a recent history of bad urban planning. These two things are not mutually exclusive, but obviously the latter alienates the former.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

bdurden said:
This is not true -- Bostonians have a long urban history, and a recent history of bad urban planning. These two things are not mutually exclusive, but obviously the latter alienates the former.
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Agreed that boston has a long urban history, but it has been coasting on that history for so long that it is now in a state of inertia and has completely run out of ideas.

If you visit other cities in Europe, or even South America or China, new districts are created and their success can be measured by how well they are used. Call it an active urban population or attribute it to appropriate land-use planning, but as Sicilian said, the architecture in and of itself does not guarantee any long-term success...

Let's face it, Park Lane in the Seaport is an abomination in terms of architecture. It is also technically a mixed-use project, although in a way that fundamentally misunderstands the very nature of urbanity and city life.

Boston these days is urban-lite.
In its new developments it offers vague gestures of a generic cafe here or maybe even a Borders there, but the bar is set so low that we entirely miss a critical mass of city life, let alone civic grandeur. It is no wonder that we end up with the disasters like the Seaport (or Kendall, or any number of new districts over the last 50 years).
It is a shame, but I don't see any other way around it, and our urban planners, architects and planning officials are all complicit. But I don't think they would be able to perpetrate this if Bostonians demanded something better... let's face it, people did buy apartments in Park Lane. It actually appeals to people who want to live in the city but not embrace city living.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

It actually appeals to people who want to live in the city but not embrace city living.
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This sums up Boston to me. Boston seems to have a whole lot of people who don't like anything about city life. There's a very anti-urban additude amongst a lot of people, so maybe they're getting the non-city they deserve.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^^Pink hat urbanists.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

This sums up Boston to me
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Doesn't this sum up most of the country (excepting perhaps Manhattan and parts of Chicago)? I went to visit friends in the Buckhead neighborhood of Atlanta last year. Their pride and joy was their tiny front yard. Their friends and neighbors envied it.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I think many "Pink Hat urbanists" want real neighborhoods. What's the point in living in a city if you can't walk to a market? Is it the water views - but then why not live in Revere or Quincy?

I think the real problem is a pink hat attitude towards development in this city. And it isn't even necessarily the developers either, although sure some are going to do the bare minimum... remember when one was recently told to tone down their overly-bold architecture lest they detract from the Greenway?

I've said it before, though - seaport developments at least have solid bones, and Park Lane and Harborview Lane can probably be reconfigured to support ground floor retail. Liberty Wharf will probably spur some of this, and go a long way towards bringing the neighborhood into quasi-reality.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Doesn't this sum up most of the country
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Ya, Boston is becoming just as bland as the rest of America, only here its much more expensive and the people aren't as friendly.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Shepard said:
I think many "Pink Hat urbanists" want real neighborhoods. What's the point in living in a city if you can't walk to a market? Is it the water views - but then why not live in Revere or Quincy?

I think the real problem is a pink hat attitude towards development in this city. And it isn't even necessarily the developers either, although sure some are going to do the bare minimum... remember when one was recently told to tone down their overly-bold architecture lest they detract from the Greenway?

I've said it before, though - seaport developments at least have solid bones, and Park Lane and Harborview Lane can probably be reconfigured to support ground floor retail. Liberty Wharf will probably spur some of this, and go a long way towards bringing the neighborhood into quasi-reality.
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The real problem is we need political change. When you have 20 years of the same people's views in charge, the Mayor, the BRA, the same developers building boxes then we get the same Bullshit year after year. If Boston ever elects a new mayor he needs to step back and hire credible people for the BRA and let them do their job. Not determine what should and shouldn't be built in the city.

If those two elements are changed in the city then Boston would actually start looking like it belongs in the 21st century.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

A BRA Press Release.

Mayor Menino Takes the Innovation District 'To Market'
City Releases 2 RFPs on Boston?s Spectacular Waterfront

Mayor Thomas M. Menino announced that the Boston Redevelopment Authority is releasing a Request for Proposals (RFP) for the first two parcels within the City?s emerging Innovation District. The City of Boston seeks to embrace new technologies and innovative businesses within the Boston Marine Industrial Park (BMIP) while retaining and celebrating the existing industrial and seafood related businesses that currently make the BMIP a coveted business location. The two prominent parcels, known as Parcels M & N, offer one of the most unique locations on the eastern seaboard with more than 6-acres of land and direct access to the highway, airport and maritime transportation.

The creativity is already building within the Innovation District and the BMIP with a number of cutting-edge companies, including Artaic, Dana Farber Cancer Institute, Next Step Living, and Ginkgo BioWorks. Additionally, MassChallenge is running a start-up competition from Fan Pier?s One Marina Park Drive office building.

The ideal developments on Parcels M & N could include high-tech manufacturing; life sciences; research & development; seafood processing, distribution, cold storage; general manufacturing and aquaculture related industries. Sustainable development and green building strategies should be guiding principles for new construction or redevelopment of the existing buildings and be incorporated into the project from the earliest stages.

The RFPs are being issued separately for each parcel, which allows prospective developers to consider utilizing the parcels individually or as a package. Both parcels are offered for lease in ?as-is? condition. Parcel M, located at 3 Dolphin Way, consists of a 3.4-acre parcel with a currently vacant building that was last occupied by Cavalier Coach Corporation. The company utilized the building for vehicle maintenance, storage and ancillary office uses. Parcel N, located at 25 Fid Kennedy Avenue, consists of a 3.25 acre parcel with a currently vacant building that was last occupied by Boston Sand and Gravel Company. The company utilized the building as a concrete batch plant.

All proponents planning to respond to the RFP(s) must register their intent by email. Registration emails are to be submitted to Dennis M. Davis (dennis.davis.bra@cityofboston.gov) by 5:00 p.m. on Monday, August 2, 2010. There is no fee to pick up the RFP(s) however a refundable initial deposit of $10,000 is required from each proponent due upon the submission of the proponent?s response to the RFP(s). Submissions are due by 12 noon on Monday, October 18, 2010.
Posted by Communications at 12:41 PM
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Re: South Boston Seaport

^My favorite part:
The ideal developments on Parcels M & N could include high-tech manufacturing; life sciences; research & development; seafood processing, distribution, cold storage; general manufacturing and aquaculture related industries.
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Yeah, because seafood processing and life sciences go hand in hand.
 
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