Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: South Boston Seaport

Are they allowing new residences to be built on the BMIP (including the studio-shares that Menino is promoting) - or is this "one of the most unique locations on the eastern seaboard" going to literally be a high-tech and seafood office park?
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Are they allowing new residences to be built on the BMIP (including the studio-shares that Menino is promoting) - or is this "one of the most unique locations on the eastern seaboard" going to literally be a high-tech and seafood office park?

I'm skeptical.

If past is prologue, all the talk about "smaller unit sizes on a European" model may be a PR effort to reduce total residential density planned for the Seaport to allow for more commercial development, favored by property owners, elected officials and consistent with BCEC expansion.

We've already seen the BRA allow phasing of residential to be postponed indefinitely, or flipped back to office space after residential approvals.

I'm interested if we'll hear that the Seaport's 1/3rd residential density requirement has been reduced to 1/4th because the new "European" model will produce the same unit count in a smaller density of housing.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I have to vent...this whole 'innovation zone' pisses me off. Menino is such a damn dilletante/flake. This is just another hairbrained, halfbaked, notion that will be forgotten in six months and fall by the wayside. It's pathetic. Enough already...go tend your garden in Readville and leave us alone.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I have to vent...this whole 'innovation zone' pisses me off. Menino is such a damn dilletante/flake. This is just another hairbrained, halfbaked, notion that will be forgotten in six months and fall by the wayside. It's pathetic. Enough already...go tend your garden in Readville and leave us alone.

My thoughts exactly.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

One other thing I don't understand is why they are selling 3+ acres at a time for development. If you put three acres up for development, one of those acres, at least, will become a parking lot. The possibility of any structure coming up to the street and interacting with it seems very unlikely.

Why not learn from the past? Lay a street grid into those further reaches of the BMIP and sell small(er) footprint parcels. Research labs (or seafood canneries, or whatever the hell else has been decreed to live and thrive here) don't need three acres.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^ I wonder how this compares to the development pattern / process at Kendall Sq.? Those plots are huge, but not 3 acres...
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

One other thing I don't understand is why they are selling 3+ acres at a time for development. If you put three acres up for development, one of those acres, at least, will become a parking lot. The possibility of any structure coming up to the street and interacting with it seems very unlikely.

Why do you assume they're selling? Since it's an RFP I kind of figured this would be a lease proposal.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

this whole 'innovation zone' pisses me off.

"I want Boston's tallest tower here, I want high/bio-tech there, I want I want I want...."

He's like a little baby.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Propaganda for the "innovation district" makes the front page. "Oh look, of course this is a realistic vision and not some off-the-cuff fantasy. We found a lab down there!"

Did the mayor's office pay them to write this?

southie__1280138440_3985.gif

CECI N'EST PAS UN REBRANDING!!

Ideas percolate in Innovation District
Hopes are high for S. Boston area

They all believe they have invented the next big thing, these engineers, MBAs, and scientists with ideas as lofty as the view from their perch on the 14th floor of a new high-rise on Boston?s waterfront.

A bottle-top filter to solve the world?s drinking-water woes. A stiletto high heel that converts into a comfortable walking shoe. A wind turbine that uses helium to float up to 2,000 feet in the air to generate electricity in the steady breeze aloft.

The creators are among 110 nascent entrepreneurs who have won free office space situated in what city planners are calling the Innovation District, a 1,000-acre swath of South Boston that encompasses much of the view from the 14th floor of One Marina Park Drive at Fan Pier, where entrepreneurial teams will work.

The envisioned district stretches from Fort Point Channel to the Boston Marine Industrial Park, from the Seaport to the Convention Center.

?I would say that we are celebrating Yankee ingenuity here today,?? said Kenneth P. Morse, a founder of the MIT Entrepreneurship Center, speaking at a recent event where the 110 nascent entrepreneurs won not only free office space, but access to business mentors, legal advice, and a shot at a share of $1 million in prize money to bring an idea to market.

?I didn?t do the exact word count,?? Morse said, ?but I heard the word innovation come up 10 or 15 times.??

While the global recession may have stalled some larger projects, officials hope smaller startups could inject the area with creative character. Last week the city began seeking bids for two long-vacant waterside industrial buildings near the tip of the 191-acre peninsula that comprises the Boston Marine Industrial Park.

Planners remain open to offers from seafood companies or other traditional industries, too, but they hope to attract a life science firm, more biotech, or perhaps a pioneer that would redefine maritime industry, like a fish farm or a tidal energy company.

?Everybody expects us to build high-rise condominiums, offices, and retail in the South Boston waterfront; that?s anywhere America,?? Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday. ?I don?t want to be that location of anywhere America. I want it to be a special part of our city, a leader in the new economy.??

The Innovation District marks the latest effort in a once forlorn part of the city that had made great strides in the last decade, but has not yet gelled as the teeming urban neighborhood imagined long ago by city planners. While new hip restaurants and other amenities continue bubbling up, there remain lonesome stretches of highway ramps and parking lots.

?Absolutely, I had to slow down over the past couple of years, but the world slowed down,?? said developer Joseph F. Fallon, who has proceeded cautiously with plans for more offices, stores, and residences, but donated the space for the entrepreneurs at One Marina Park Drive. ?We are starting to see some upticks. I need these small companies in a building like this. I can?t just do it with one major tenant. I need diversity in any building.??

The Innovation District is not an attempt to reinvent the Seaport or Convention Center area, say planners from the Boston Redevelopment Authority, but rather an effort to embrace new industries. The neighborhoods will not work, they say, with just office towers, five-star hotels, and luxury high-rises.

?I think we forget that the development is tied to the bigger economic picture,?? said Gregory Vasil, chief executive officer of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board. ?We want it to happen in an instant. If I can?t get that huge employer to come in here and bring 400 or 500 jobs at one time, maybe smaller companies [can] come in and take up some space. I think it?s smart.??

The city?s new endeavor includes a push for some inventive housing that would cater to the laboratory and startup set. At a recent symposium, architects pitched plans to developers for studio apartments with shared kitchens and other common rooms, almost like a dormitory without the college.

The goal would be an inexpensive place to sleep for people such as David Perry, a 23-year-old recent grad from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and one of the forces behind OsmoPure, the bottle-top water filter.

Perry was one winner in the entrepreneurs contest, MassChallenge, sponsored by the state, the city, and private organizations including law firms and businesses. He is moving his infomercial-esque enthusiasm to Boston without a place to live.

?I?ll be couch surfing for a while, I guess,?? said Perry, who has been staying with a cousin in upstate New York.

But city planners do not want to create a hipster playground for the techno elite. The Boston Marine Industrial Park, for example, remains home to almost two dozen seafood companies that scale, filet, and debone an ocean of fish and mollusks, from dayboat stripers caught off Cape Cod to Indonesia crab.

Take North Coast Seafoods, a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week operation on Drydock Avenue that employs 160 with knives and hairnets. Even this traditional company boasts high tech innovations: super-cold slush ice, seawater purified with ultraviolet light, and a micro lab so precise it detected when dayboats in Gloucester cut back on ice because of the high cost of diesel.

A few factory buildings away, the DNA hackers at Ginkgo BioWorks toil in jeans and gym shoes, cerebral entrepreneurs who make jokes about microbes and use the word bootstrap as a verb. Their airy lab has the familiar hallmarks of a startup.

Outside its windows, workers repair a 950-foot-long naval freighter parked in one of the largest drydocks on the East Coast. It may only be a 30-minute ride on the Silver Line to MIT, but it is a world away from Kendall Square.

?You get a much better deal out here on lab space than in Cambridge,?? said one of the founders, Jason Kelly, 29. ?More people have been coming to ask us about the area, people we know from MIT, looking for space.??

While the area will never become a biotech research cluster like Kendall Square, it could become a hub for other life sciences, said Mark Winters, managing principal of the global life sciences for the real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield.

?There?s a really positive buzz to that whole area,?? Winters said. ?The single biggest challenge facing it, unfortunately, is the state of the economy and the Boston real estate market.??

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...07/26/ideas_percolate_in_innovation_district/

Meanwhile, the ICA continues to do cool stuff without hand-holding. Is this a projection of the BRA's excuses for how the Seaport has turned out?

539w.jpg
 
Last edited:
Re: South Boston Seaport

Apologies if this has been posted in the past . . . but speaking of Innovation Districts, did anyone catch that last year Boston was ranked the most innovative city in the world?
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Does anybody actually see the SEAPORT DISTRICT as being successful in this decade? I don't.....
I just think for the price tag that the developers have paid, it will be very difficult to develop something very desirable in this area.

Unless the middle class could get bargains in the Seaport District for 100 to 300K which would bring a better quality of life for a certain group of people. Then I really don't see this area selling condos or Townhouse boxes for 400-900K.

I think the reality is that Boston is a very expensive place to live and do business. It's very tough to start a small unique business without owning the property in the first place. What creates a great place to live is good diversity of Educated people with core values.
Until prices become affordable and job creation starts to happen, I just don't see people flocking to the Seaport District unless they get a great deal to live in that area.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

From what I read of the innovative district, I think its a good idea. It's trying to address importance of having economic activity in an area. If done well, it will help supply the forces necesary to build this neighborhood. Especailly if they plan to keep the marine activity alive. Something tells me we arn't a leader in marine technologies. And there really isn't one reason why we shouldn't. Boston has arguably the smartest brain pool, coastal, with a long and rich marine past, we should be all up in it.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

There's an economic raison d'etre for developing this area: the need for housing. But don't tell anyone at City Hall, since they presume the need for commercial development offhand.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

If past is prologue, all the talk about "smaller unit sizes on a European" model may be a PR effort to reduce total residential density planned for the Seaport to allow for more commercial development, favored by property owners, elected officials and consistent with BCEC expansion.

We've already seen the BRA allow phasing of residential to be postponed indefinitely, or flipped back to office space after residential approvals.

I'm interested if we'll hear that the Seaport's 1/3rd residential density requirement has been reduced to 1/4th because the new "European" model will produce the same unit count in a smaller density of housing.

You raise a good point, Sicilian; I'm also baffled on the "studio shares," as Menino calls his latest flavor of the day (if it wasn't moving City Hall to the Seaport, building the "Tommy Tower" / "TransNational Place", or bicycling, it had to be something, I guess).

It looks like Menino is trying to draw high-skilled workers and entrepreneurs to Boston by promising them ... really small communal apartments.

To any recent college grad this sounds like a freshman dorm: really small studios around some communal kitchenettes and TV rooms. It's not a senior dorm, or even a junior one; as an upperclassman, you at least get a suite, which means your small studio empties into a communal living area that you're sharing with selected friends. Mumbles' plan makes it sound like you get dumped into the communal space with a bunch of strangers. No better than a frosh.

If you're some PhD geneticist or optics specialist or what have you, why on earth would you want to deal with the hassle of a "studio share"? When I got out of college, I was pretty thrilled to be able to live in a "real" apartment. And to this day, when I get home from work, I'm happy to be able to cook when and what I want, over what time period I want, and while singing along to "Take a Bow" if I'm in that sort of mood. I would not by any means ever feel like coming home only to wait an hour or two till I can access the stove after the quasi-strangers down the hall finish cooking their cod aspic, or hope that the TV and couch are going to free up so I can watch my allotted 30 minutes of television. And is it likely that these apartments, being part of expensive developments in pretty prime real estate, would be that much cheaper than Somerville, which seems to be doing a pretty good job attracting recent grads?

This sounds very fishy (riffing on the cod aspic, perhaps), and really unattractive. Is there any way this is getting built, other than under Sicilian's scenario?

Assuming that that somewhat-cynical (though possibly accurate) scenario isn't what's at play, is there any due diligence being done -- or, like the Greenway, the Seaport in general, and so many of Boston's other big projects, is it a fairly poorly thought-out, faddish idea that, because Mumbles likes it, gets decided more-or-less behind closed doors (or with input from the few non-working, super-passionate and thus non-representative "community representatives" who invariably are worried about shadows, open space and parking), then unrolled with some fancy graphics and hype by the Globe?
 
Last edited:
Re: South Boston Seaport

I'd never noticed that san francisco had the EXACT SAME situation as Boston.

EVERYTHING is the same. It's freighting.

South of downtown, right past a major train station, across a channel, a wasteland of parking lots. Anchored by hopes of future development and their very own silver line.


1. South Station
2. Harborwalk and channel
3. Fan Pier
4. Silver line (aka T-line. It's light rail (+1 for many of you) but is above ground (-1)

sanfrancisco.jpg


You can explore it on google maps here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...67,-122.391837&spn=0.010482,0.030212&t=k&z=16

If you scroll south a bit, youll note they have their very own innovation district redevelopment going on, courtesy of UCSF.


Thinking about it, their downtown is an awful lot like ours. Embarcadero = greenway, but they have their heritage trolleys running on it (when will we?). Ferrys depart from the waterfront. Their light rail terminates nearby. A subway crosses under the harbor.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

One difference is that north of Mission Creek, the area has seen a ridiculous amount (by Boston standards) of new housing centered around the 4th and King st station. It's all very urban and dense, ranging from pretty nice (Arterra) to pretty bleh (akin to 1330 Boylston). SF also benefits immensely from that funky row of houseboats in the channel. This is just a taste of the low rise stuff (height increases along King):

mn-nevius11_ph8_0501467997.jpg


As for the actual Mission Bay...well, from what I've seen the architecture is mostly puke worthy (Park Lane sez "wutup?"), increasingly so as you move further south into UCSF territory. I think one of the new hospital buildings actually comes with a new surface lot attached...

Also, here's a rendering of what's planned for Mission Rock, SF's very own Fan Pier (lucky them: no courthouse):

2010_05_missionrock.jpg
 
Last edited:
Re: South Boston Seaport

To Itchy's post above:

It does seem like this "communal" housing is just low-cost housing. Nothing about it encourages innovation necessarily. Is the Mayor going to check people's resume's at the door? No one without a graduate degree degree need apply! Couldn't we just end up with alot of service employees and/or blue collar workers living in the "innovation district"? (Not a bad thing because it provides affordable housing, but certainly not innovative).
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

the 14th floor of a new high-rise on Boston?s waterfront.

So that's what is called a high-rise now? We are really defining down our expectations. No doubt the next 14 story "high-rise" built in the Seaport will cast a shadow on the RKG, or maybe even the Common.
 

Back
Top