Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: South Boston Seaport

Having just returned from Germany, I found Cologne's "docklands" development much more impressive than Hafencity. It is smaller, more intimate, and is an extension of the city and what is already in place rather than trying to recreate and reinvent. It is not without problems, but it is not yet complete and already well ingrained into the urban fabric of Cologne, mainly due to the bike trails and great Rhine views.

http://www.cnbcmagazine.com/story/rheinauhafen-cologne/1158/1/
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

From Wollaston Beach in Quincy, 10/9

IMG_6671.jpg


Another similar pic to my other one from East Boston Harbor on 10/7

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Re: South Boston Seaport

http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=4913

click link for images

10.18.2010
Boston's Seaport Square Sails Ahead
Approval finally fixed for $3 billion, KPF-designed waterfront neighborhood


Late last month, the Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) gave the preliminary go-ahead for Seaport Square, a 23-acre, $3 billion mixed-use development in the South Boston waterfront district. Officials describe the 6.3 million-square-foot scheme as the largest single project in the city?s history.

The BRA approved Kohn Pedersen Fox?s masterplan for a 20-block, 22-building residential neighborhood with a mix of retail, office, hotel, civic, and cultural spaces and significant open space?almost 40 percent of the project?including several parks and linear green space. The pedestrian-oriented plan also includes connections to the waterfront and the downtown business district, with much of the development?s parking hidden below ground.

The former Penn Central railroad property, most of which has been used for parking since the 1970s, sits between the Boston Convention Center on Summer St. and Fan Pier, where Diller Scofidio + Renfro?s Institute of Contemporary Art opened in 2006. Seaport Square?s landscape will ultimately slope from the 25-foot deck of Summer St. to water level.

According to KPF principal and chief designer Jamie von Klemperer, the design draws on themes explored in the firm?s masterplan for the massive city of New Songdo, rising near Seoul, South Korea. While the scale and context are worlds apart, the experience has honed the firm?s skills at combining the elements of a mature urban environment with a clean slate. ?It?s this idea of creating a synergy of somewhat overlapping functions in a very tight space,? von Klemperer said.

Fifth-term mayor Thomas Menino has designated the waterfront district an ?innovation district,? and city officials are hoping to lure existing companies and startups in the high-tech, life sciences, and creative sectors to the area. To that end, the developers, Boston Global Investors, Morgan Stanley, and W/S Development Associates, recently added a high-tech business incubator and workforce housing to the project. Proponents of the plan note that it adds much-needed affordable and moderately priced housing.

?Decreasing the size of some of the housing units creates a denser and more livable pattern, and results in more affordable housing,? said Tom Piper, a research scientist in the MIT Department of Urban Studies and Planning. ?That means more people, which makes the streets more active.? Unfortunately, he added, the developers have to live with a tangle of highway on-ramps and access roads for the Central Artery, which skirts the site and runs through it in some places, creating a challenge for pedestrian links within the neighborhood and walkable connections to other parts of the city.

Over its five-year evolution, the project has shifted from an early emphasis on office space to residential, according to von Klemperer. The approved plan calls for 2.8 million square feet of residential space (70 percent market-rate), 1.15 million square feet of office and life sciences space, 1.25 million square feet of retail, 250,000 square feet of civic and cultural space, and 860,000 square feet of hotel space.

The first phase, scheduled to get underway in late 2011, will include several apartment buildings and the Innovation Center incubator. As of early October, architects for those projects had not been selected. While each building will be designed to LEED standards, the project as a whole will incorporate energy efficiency through co-generation plants and shared systems.

The developers have shown a willingness to accommodate neighborhood and city concerns, whether changing the orientation of buildings to avoid the canyon effect, reducing building heights, or providing playing fields, according to Vivien Li, executive director of the nonprofit Boston Harbor Association.

While the plan?s approval is encouraging, city officials are wary of getting left with acres of vacant sites should the development stall out. Indeed, Boston Global Investors CEO John Hynes III played a lead role in a condo and office tower on the site of the former Filene?s department store in nearby Downtown Crossing?a project that notoriously stalled after demolition and excavation in 2008. According to BRA director John Palmieri, the authority has since made final approval of developments contingent on a confidential review of project financing.

Ted Smalley Bowen
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

very nice. This story is also a top feature on planetizen.com

Im sure the rendering is already posted, but here it is from that story you linked to
Seaport-Square.jpg
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I just hope they don't go for amazingly banal, and pedestrian-hostile architecture. We don't need Kendall Seaport Square.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

What is this, a segment from Marty Stouffer's "Wild America"? What's with all the superfluous grass strips? Parks, like sheep, can be charming. But when the parks-to-buildings ratio approximates New Zealand's sheep-to-humans ratio, you've gone from charm to fail. ... I guess they can always build on those parcels later.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

IMHO, that rendering is propaganda peddled by Hynes, the BRA and the media, and has little if anything to do with reality other than it represents one possible 25-year full build of the Seaport. The rendering includes hypothetical buildings on vacant parcels that are not part of Seaport Square. 99% of the buildings and spaces shown are subject to change in future years and future administrations.

I challenge anyone to find the ACTUAL buildings that were approved and are currently moving forward in Seaport Square in that rendering. If that is possible, perhaps they could Photoshop in some bright red arrows pointing to them. The reason that we don't see direct views of any actual buildings is that the BRA does not want public scrutiny of the architecture and planning choices they have made in advance of construction.

[BTW, These last few posts should really be under the Seaport Square thread.]
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Even One Marina isn't in that rendering as it was actually built.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Without commenting on the actual prospects for this build-out, I do have to say that I'm not especially irked by many of the proposed open spaces, which seem more like large residential courtyards or pocket parks. If they'll actually build out residential and ground floor retail, I think the urbanism is, for the most part, there. However, what grates me is the park at the top - right across the street from the Fan Pier park! This has been in every Seaport Square rendering and I truly don't understand it - a gaping dead zone right up against the water.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I challenge anyone to find the ACTUAL buildings that were approved and are currently moving forward in Seaport Square in that rendering. If that is possible, perhaps they could Photoshop in some bright red arrows pointing to them. The reason that we don't see direct views of any actual buildings is that the BRA does not want public scrutiny of the architecture and planning choices they have made in advance of construction.

You've asked for this a few times, and I would have to say it does not exist. I don't believe that buildings have been approved. A "development" has been approved. As stated in the article, architects for the proposed buildings have not been selected. Cannot submit and approve buildings without an architectural set. The concept and or massing may be approved. Or a written description.

I would like to see some actual stuff too, but I don't really think it exists. The PNF/ENF was completed with the massing study, basically this rendering

SeaportSquare-1.jpg


Blocks A, H, & J have drawings somewhat developed with elevations and perspectives. We've all seen A (next to barking crab.) I'll work on extracting the other 2 if someone else doesn't have them.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Hey Seamus, is it okay if I use that picture in a discussion on another forum? I already put it up, not realizing it was from your photostream, but will take it down if you prefer.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^^Seamus

With respect to the current state of approvals, your explanation makes sense. Thanks for this clarification.

Some comments...

I recall public meetings where the office building across from Fan Pier was presented in renderings and comments solicited from attendees were fairly detailed, down to the articulation of cornice lines to reference some abutting buildings, etc. My memory on this is admittedly sketchy and perhaps such details are normally talked about when massing is the issue.

Certainly we are not seeing even primitive renderings of Phase One in the media to being an educated discussion of massing and land use.

I'd also point out that that Hacin condo has been widely presented in renderings and discussed on this forum. My impression, perhaps mistakenly was that if the condo was that far along, the office piece must also be available in some final form.

Architecture aside, the real premise of my continued disgust is based on the fact that while the BRA has spent 10 years on a public relations effort getting continual coverage about the 24/7 mixed-used Seaport they are planning, the reality is that we are seeing one office tower after another (and soon one hotel after another) on the Waterfront's prime real estate. The BRA has handed out zoning changes for new density without pressing for a modicum of residential units to be developed concurrent with the office space.

I don't see how anyone can believe that 2500 residential units can simply be offloaded to the final phase of Seaport Square. Nothing supports the idea that the market will shift to support that much residential development at one time. All the while, the Mayor and BRA get glowing coverage year after year for all the residential units they are approving.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

But Sicilian, as far as I can tell, the market IS still weak for new residential. You seem to be concerned that the entire seaport will be developed as office space and hotels and then Menino will one day smile guiltily and say "oops, no more room for the residential component!" ... I just don't see the conspiracy. You know as well as I do that the pace of development in this city won't see the Seaport built out on a purely office/hotel model before the residential market picks up. Prior obligations aside (I do realize this is a big 'aside') it's hard to fault developers for trying to build what they feasibly can, and it's also hard to fault Menino for still promoting a residential neighborhood vision - I don't think it's pure political expediency, and I don't think he's being disingenuous.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^Shepard

First off, I'm not in the development business so I won't pretend to know the details. But what I don't understand seems pretty simple.

Let's say you buy a piece of land. The seller and you both know the existing zoning.

After your purchase, you visit the BRA and the BRA agrees to triple the density.

The value of your land appreciates significantly with the new approvals. Let's say it triples, and the value after construction is hundreds of millions of $$$ more than you originally purchased.

Suppose the BRA insisted on a including a modicum of residential development with your project. Could you honestly claim the economics didn't work for you, or the market didn't support residential? The BRA just handed you development rights worth hundreds of millions of $$$ more than you paid for it.

On top of that, the taxpayer continues to invest in your district. Should there be an expectation that the zoning reflect goals that are consistent with the new value and property rights?

Scenario Two really gets me...

A property owner goes to the BRA for changes to zoning. Once the approval is in hand, the owner sells the property with new zoning for a premium, and then the new owner who paid a premium claims the economics don't allow for a top-notch project. In other words, the owner who won the BRA approval left town with the appreciated value of the property.

I can't see how anyone operating on the Seaport can claim economic conditions prevent residential development in Phase One given the zoning changes and taxpayer investments that are changing the valuation of their properties.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Here's what I think should have happened: The city should have floated a bond to purchase the entire Seaport land, then split that total purchase into much smaller parcels each with zoning and approvals already in place in accordance with some sort of master plan. In the meantime they could have developed a fast track build-approval process for developers working within the parcel guidelines. Those parcels would sell, especially because the capital barrier to entry would be so much lower. After the city repays the bond, the land sale would yield a profit for the city because of the value baked in to the new approvals - this profit could have be set aside for public transit improvements to the area, which would in turn inspire more confidence among developers with the neighborhood.

That's what should have happened, anyway.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

^ Makes too much sense. Flies in the face of what's taught in planning schools.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

But Shepard do you really think the city should be in the "zoning for profit" business. I mean, imagine if the city bought out Chiofaro for $XM tomorrow and then rezoned the Aquarium garage for an 800 and a 600 foot tower (as Chiofaro originally proposed). Brilliant, then the city could flip the property for $2XM! Kind of egregious, no?

I'd rather the city had just zoned for smaller footprints and uses from the get go. Then stick to those footprints and uses (as Sicillian so often requests).
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Agree with AFL -- why should the city play middle man? It can only inflate the per lot price and is a huge incentive for corruption. Zone and get the hell out of the way!
 

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