Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation District

By that standard, 'SoWa' is a success (even though I know you hate this name)
 
Re: Innovation District

Sicilian said:
I'm proposing a new thread to discuss the concept of Boston's "Innovation District."

The City of Boston has done a terrific amount of PR, including social media (Twitter, website, personal relationships and liasions) to coalesce a group of companies primarily in the tech / pharma sector, now hosting networking events, etc. in the district. The buzz is good, and increasing.

I'm suggesting here that beyond PR, there is really no significant Innnovation District planning under way which might revisit the South Boston Waterfront to actually build a sustainable and modern "Innovation District" far more attractive than Cambridge or other cities worldwide offer.

In its efforts to date, the Boston Redevelopment Authority has:

1. Directed the vast majority of "innovation economy" startups to relatively cheap leases in Fort Point wharf buildings.

Problem #1: Available Fort Point wharf building space is finite.
Problem #2: Prices are increasing in Fort Point, perhaps beyond what "innovation economy" startups will deem affordable. This experience was already borne out by the arts community in Fort Point.
Problem #3: I'm not sure, but I doubt startups would be interested in leasing the type of office space planned for Fan Pier, Seaport Square, Pier IV, Fort Point 100 Acres.

2. Directed "innovation economy" startups to subsidized (free) leases on Fan Pier.

Problem: Subsidies are unsustainable.

3. Mandated the creation of "Innovation Units" (e.g. small units <500 square feet) in recently approved residential projects.

Problem: There are fewer than 40 of these units in the pipeline for completion over the next 2 years. Does this matter, if perhaps hundreds or thousands more can be completed in 3-10 years?

4. Approved completion of a handful of "Executive Stay" units for visiting employees.

Problem: None recognized. It seems these types of units are in demand by startups. Or maybe they are for successful "Innovation Economy" companies (Vertex).

5. Announced the construction of a 12,000 sf Boston Innovation Center, possibly including meeting rooms and a cafe.

Problem#1: The Boston Innovation Center seems like a jewel box on the Seaport, with no large-scale support in abutting properties. Will this attract startups if the surrounding space is all Class A office space?
Problem #2: Location is remote relative to most of the startups in the district.

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SUMMARY

Is it possible to get a jump on an Innovation District in a way which would increase the odds of a positive outcome?

Should the City of Boston consider pulling approvals for any land on the South Boston Waterfront and/or Fort Point that remains vacant 3+ years after approvals, and starting over with a zoning plan that recognizes the actual needs of an "Innovation District?"

What are the needs of startups invited to an Innovation District and how do we get these things off the ground?
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Ron -- the key is what kind of Innovation District -- I don't think that your model for the innovator is what is likely to populate the SPID

These are the candidates:

The Cambridge MIT/ Kendall Cambridge Center model (e.g. Novartis, EMC, Pfizer, Googel, Microsoft) -- they don't care how much it costs -- Microsoft had the building personally wacked to make a 2 story window on the Charles -- the NERD

The traditional Boston Area start-up -- very price sensitive -- old card tables and folding chairs-- but mostly a thing of history these days

The fat -- Silicon Valley style start-up --- money is even less an object than for Novartis -- bowls of jumbo chilled prawns (e.g. Webvan) -- thankfully most of these are history

The new Knowledge Ecoomy spin-out / Carve-out or well financed start-up -- first class office space is fine for them (especialyy for software, webware, mobie aps) , unless they need special accomodations such as Bio or Nano labs

To date we have very little in the way of real data in the SPID -- the only major new campers in the SPID is Vertex a publicly traded company with lots of cash and some traditional office space users (e.g. law firms) and then there is the micro / nano campus of Babson

Note -- I don't include the 1 person consulting shotps and the various coffee shops, UPS, and specialized support companies as the primary customer for the space. Especially the latter and the consultants -- will just fill into what is left -- just as they have in the old warehouses and remnants of the blue collar parts of East Cambridge. In Boston these will most likely settle not in the SPID propoer but on Dorchester Ave and such in traditional blue collar Southy
 
Re: Innovation District

Shepard said:
Has anyone ever heard "Innovation District" be used colloquially?

-- "Let's go check out the new Legals in the Innovation District!"
-- "You mean the Test Kitchen?"
-- "No, the newer new one! Innovation District is full of Legals, dudebro!"

I don't think it's going to catch on, not even to a small extend, in everyday speech.

Personally, I continue to refer to this area as the Seaport - from Fort Point Channel to the Marine Industrial Park. I think of Fort Point as a distinct area within the Seaport down the A Street corridor (although Fort Point technically crosses the channel I believe also?)

"Seaport" to me is irreplaceable. It has 1) Character, 2) History, 3) Is geographically determinate 4) Is descriptive without being constraining
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Shep -- sign up for any one of several Innovation Economy / Knowledge Economy Blogs / Forums -- the term Innovation District is in wide use

These days Seaport is just for Tourists -- there really is no port-related functions (even the fish pier is mosty Disney) until you get to the Black Falcon Cruise Terminal and the Conley Container Terminal

The dirty secret is that even most of the companies in the Marine Industrial Park -- could be in Needham just as easily as down on the harbor
 
Re: Innovation District

The company in this BRA tweet is moving to Atlantic Wharf.

The BRA again states today that Atlantic Wharf is in the bounds of the Innovation District.

4er53.png


Clearly, the City of Boston sees the Innovation District as a conceptual idea — not a subject of discussion for any particular district zoning or district planning.
 
Re: Innovation District

I don't see why the "Innovation District" couldn't include the Seaport and Dewey Square area. The Seaport could just be "in" the Innovation District.

As far as the Seaport goes individually (meaning the area across the bridge), I think it should remain as "The Seaport." It just sounds like a community and is perfect if Seaport Square or any part actually gets built...
 
Re: Innovation District

I'm also a fan of the term "Seaport," as well as the Seaport District.

The divisive politics 10 years ago that resulted in "Seaport District" being renamed "South Boston Waterfront" don't really exist anymore. It would be great to put down a FIRM marker on the use of that name and get on with it.
 
Re: Innovation District

Personally I think the acronym "ID" will stick with realtors and eventually with the public. Acronyms are trendy and easy for people to use freely without direct understanding or "buy-in" on the proper term.

On another topic, I'd like to get everyone's opinion on the residential "boom" that looks to be shaping up in this area.

Potential 2012 projects include: 319 A Rear, Pier 4 Phase 1, 381 Congress, D Street, Seaport Square Phase 1A, Fan Pier among various projects on the Southie/ID edge (1st + 1st, West Square, 50 West Broad, etc).

From reading forum posts on the ID, it seems that before a lot of these projects were proposed for residential, pretty much everyone agreed that residential should be the #1 objective for this area (besides transit expansion). Now after it seems to be shaping up, the negativity around the ID has shifted to things like lack of Blue Chips, Investor Firms, cheap rent for start-ups, innovation housing, etc.

A lot of the ideas and concerns in this thread specifically seem spot on - such as proposals that sit undeveloped for years. But in general it seems that the negativity is just shifting from one thing to another.
 
Re: Innovation District

I hear your point about negativity and am wary (and weary) of negativity in my own posts.

But first off, when it comes to Boston's waterfront, it's the whole package that matters. Land use, groundfloor, public realm -- and architecture.

For example, here is the groundfloor of 319 A Street - the most likely residential project to move forward of the batch you cited.

http://i.imgur.com/DTKvT.jpg

So the shifting negativity that you cite is often disappointment with elements of each whole package -- from groundfloor to architecture to land use.

Secondly, the reality on the ground over 10 years is far different than the press releases.

None of the projects you cited are under construction.

All of the projects you cite have been announced multiple times, some over a period of 5-10 years, others in varying configurations with respect to a larger (unbuilt) large project sitting on approvals for 5-10 years.

If you want to correctly cite unbuilt residential projects announced and approved over the past 10 years, there were 5,500+ units approved on Fan Pier, Seaport Square, Fort Point 100 Acres.

A lot of related commentary is posted on the Seaport Thread.

It comes down to this:

The BRA has upzoned the Seaport/ID by 27 million square feet over the past 10 years.

To property owners, that translated to a MASSIVE increase in property value.

When the land was (and is) flipped with those approvals for a higher price tag, that value ends up somewhere.

Figure out where the money goes. Not to seeing projects built, the land remains parking lots.

I'm suggesting to you that the BRA's powers of zoning could have been used to incentivize residential development over the past 10 years. There a reason no significant residential moved forward besides market forces.

There's a reason that upzoning and flipping vacant land and existing buildings has proved FAR more lucrative to property owners than building anything.

EDIT: Grammar
 
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Re: Innovation District

There definitely is a reason why flipping has been more lucrative than building, especially in a stale economy.

If these projects are simply proposals that will be sold, then my argument doesn't hold water. But with the need for apartments in Boston and the influx of company relocation to the ID (Vertex, Herald, A&G, dozens of start-ups) it seems very possible that the residential boom is on the horizon. Which of these projects do you think will not be built? All of them – with the exception of Seaport Square look to be in the hands of developers looking to build, at least from what I’ve read on this forum. And two of the projects on the Southie edge that I mentioned, 1st + 1st and 11 WB are currently under development.

I don’t think anyone would argue against the fact that we are in a very different position now then we were 10, or even 5 years ago. Let’s discuss what needs to be done after residential comes in - Entertainment, recreation, etc. If we continue to dwell on the shortfalls of the ID rather than focus on the successes we will miss out on important issues that could make or break the new district. This "conceptual idea" is slowly turning into something real.

Could the BRA have done more over the years? Absolutely – But I’d like to hear about what seems to be taking shape now. I’m not interested in the past.
 
Re: Innovation District

ParkerChris said:
I don’t think anyone would argue against the fact that we are in a very different position now then we were 10, or even 5 years ago. Let’s discuss what needs to be done after residential comes in - Entertainment, recreation, etc. If we continue to dwell on the shortfalls of the ID rather than focus on the successes we will miss out on important issues that could make or break the new district. This "conceptual idea" is slowly turning into something real.

Could the BRA have done more over the years? Absolutely – But I’d like to hear about what seems to be taking shape now. I’m not interested in the past.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my view on the SPID. There are frustrations without a doubt, but we are getting some progress, and ironically enough, it's of the more organic variety that people tend to praise. There are and will continue to be some bland buildings, but we are also getting some gems like the ICA, Jimmy's, and it would appear Pier 4. I suspect many of us will be quite surprised ten years from now.
 
Re: Innovation District

There is wisdom in your point(s) of view, Henry and Chris.

I think I'll remain a skeptic based on history over the past 10 years, including recent history.

Overall I am actually an optimist about Seaport/ID, we just need visionary leadership. Unfortunately, the BRA has already handed out the goodies (i.e. upzoning) typically used to ensure a quality outcome -- in other words IF NOT A QUALITY PROJECT, NO APPROVAL.

As for Chris statement:

If these projects are simply proposals that will be sold, then my argument doesn't hold water.
Click to expand...

Until you see a shovel, it's a proposal. BRA reversals or opposition to residential blow in the breeze from month to month. You'd never know about these from the Boston Globe or Herald, trust me.

Recent BRA reversals or opposition to residential:

1. 316 Summer Street approved as Condo, reversed to office, now vacant.
2. 322 Summer Street approved as Condo, reversed to office, now vacant
3. 5-10 Channel Center Street approved as Condo, reversed to office, now vacant.
4. Boston Innovation Center on Seaport Square - approved as Hacin condo now BCEC LITE
5. 399 Congress Street - property owner wants to build residential, BRA says NO

All of the above BRA reversals were announced to the Boston Globe as residential housing projects "moving forward." And all reversals followed 1+ years of publicity and meetings, with 11th hour conversions to office through the filing of a Notice of Project Change (30 days before a final approval).

And all of the above reversals occured over the past 5 years.

To look at what has residential been built, we have:

FP3 (existing building with rooftop addition, 2007)
25 Channel Center (the last new construction residential, 2002)
35 Channel Center (existing building, 2002)
Fort Point Place (existing building with infill, 2000)

That's it (excluding Massport, not subject to City zoning). This PALES in comparison to BRA variances/approvals for office space projects (COMPLETED DURING THE SAME PERIOD) through ID/Seaport.

The BRA continues to make questionable statements to the media about the residential. Some projects are stated as "housing" but are 90-day executive stay hotel units. Other large projects are "required" to have 1/3rd residential as part of the program but the BRA plays tricks with the numbers to lower the totals. Channel Center is an example of a project that is tipping in the direction of office space with no accounting for the 1/3rd housing number.

I do believe 319 A St Rear will move forward (because of a legal agreement binding the property owner). That said, I think the current owner will demolish the BWCo. building and then sit around until they can flip the pre-approved (undeveloped) project. The current property stated this was EXACTLY their plan when they purchased their Fort Point portfolio. The new owner will come in, go back to the BRA for a few more goodies based on hardship "WE PAID TOO MUCH, WE CAN'T MAKE PROFORMA WORK WITHOUT SOME MORE CANDY." That's my prediction before shovels go in.

Lastly, I'm most optimistic about 381 Congress Street. The owner/developer has a terrific track record and the neighborhood is buzzing about that project.

Even if I'm a little off in the details above, I try to be EXACTLY accurate. Feel free to ask me for proof and I'll try to dig up supporting documents.

You might understand my skepticism.
 
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Re: Innovation District

It is disheartening to read these facts, and I fully understand the skepticism.

I really do hope 381 and even 319 move forward. 381 specifically looks to be exactly what the ID needs. Projects like this one, even if few and far between, will slowly help put the right pieces in place for the ID to truly have a chance at becoming something special in this city.

Thanks for the detail on these projects - it really does help put light to what is going on behind the scenes.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I don't know if there is a better place to post this, if so then this can be moved.

When phase 1 of the Silver Line was first talked about the papers said that it would be built for eventual conversion to light rail. F-Line can you offer any insight into this?
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Just like they said GLX would be built for easy conversion to heavy rail. Now it's a complete non-issue and is being utterly ignored from what I can tell.


Also, the MBTA recently said they're "happy" with the Silver Line and they "have no regrets" about being bus over light rail. Bunch of clowns.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Paul - I've tried to find a planning document that talks about the SL being converted down the road to LR. I can't find anything that confirms the tunnels were engineered for an easy conversion... alas I keep looking...
 
Re: Innovation District

Mayor pushes micro-units to lure young to Waterfront

The tiny apartments that are a staple of New York City may soon be more available in Boston. Mayor Thomas M. Menino is pushing developers to build units as small as 375 square feet - barely enough to squeeze in a bed, bathroom, and galley kitchen.

The administration is promoting the idea in the Innovation District on the South Boston Waterfront, where construction is expected to begin in coming months on scores of micro-apartments.


Beyond convenience, the chief attraction will be price, developers say. Such units are expected to rent for about $1,500 a month, about half the cost of a typical one-bedroom downtown.


The apartments, though roughly the size of a living room in a large suburban home, have the advantage of being near restaurants, stores, and offices for technology companies on the waterfront.

“The whole idea is to make housing units reachable so young people working in the innovation economy can afford to rent them,’’ said Kairos Shen, chief planner for the Boston Redevelopment Authority. It has made the development of smaller units a policy goal, but not a requirement for builders.

“It’s an important component of the strategy of the Innovation District,’’ Shen said. “A lot of these people are having a hard time finding the right housing.’’

The small units are meant to cater to a distinctly urban lifestyle, with the apartments used for little more than sleeping. Residents could entertain in lounges and work areas incorporated into the buildings, or at the many restaurants and bars expected to open along nearby streets. For transportation, residents can rent Zipcars, use public transit, or ride bicycles.

Current city regulations allow units as small as 450 square feet. The new recommended minimum would shrink them by 75 square feet, but more important is the statement the policy makes: that Menino wants builders to respond to his call for this type of housing.

So far, about 300 such units are planned on the waterfront. Most would be included in buildings that would also have one- and two-bedroom apartments.

“It’s more eclectic, funky space,’’ said developer John B. Hynes III, who is planning to build about 150 such units in three buildings at the Seaport Square project near the federal courthouse. The Hynes apartments would be 400 to 500 square feet and would rent for $1,500 to $2,000 a month, depending on size.

The renters, Hynes said, “will only be there to sleep and maybe do a little work. If they want to entertain people, there will be other common spaces within the buildings where they can host a Super Bowl party or whatever it happens to be.’’

Smaller units are also included in apartment projects that are proposed for Pier 4 along Northern Avenue, 63 Melcher St., 381 Congress St., and 411 D St.

The apartments’ layouts and sizes would vary, but the unifying trait would be extreme efficiency with space. Many would employ fold-out couches or Murphy beds and kitchen countertops that double as tables or desks.

Draft plans for 400- to 550-square-foot units designed by the architecture firm ADD Inc. show compact bathrooms and kitchens around an open room that could double as a living room and bedroom, or be divided with a sliding door. ADD is working on several projects on the waterfront that will include dozens of similar-size units.

Tamara Roy, a senior architect at the firm, said such apartments can be made to feel larger and more open with 9-foot ceilings and big windows that offer city views and a strong connection to the neighborhood.

If the effort succeeds on the waterfront, Shen said, the city will expand it to other neighborhoods. The current 450-square-foot minimum was put in place to prevent developers from meeting their affordable-housing targets, required under city code, exclusively with tiny units.

Under the new regulations, the smaller units would be counted under a separate “innovation housing’’ category and cannot be used to meet affordable-housing requirements.


Builders are having less trouble securing construction funding for apartments than for other housing projects. But some industry specialists caution that extremely small units may be difficult to finance because so few have been developed.

“The question becomes, how deep is the demand for this?’’ said David Begelfer, chief executive of NAIOP Massachusetts, a commercial real estate association.

“And can you quantify it to the point where it will be acceptable to a lender?’’ he asked. “If you move out of the comfort zone of the banks right now, the money is not going to be there.’’

City officials say the potential for such units is strong. Boston has had a huge surge of residents 20 to 34 years old and boasts the largest percentage of residents in that age group among major US cities - around 35 percent of the population, according to recent census data.

Boston recently surveyed that age group and found, not surprisingly, that housing was a major concern. A large percentage of respondents said they would make compromises to live downtown, however.

“What we found is that they were willing to give up many of the comforts that housing developers thought were standard,’’ Shen said.

That includes expansive entertainment rooms, which can be built as common areas elsewhere in the buildings, as well as dining rooms and large kitchens.

And having communal areas, Shen said, creates more opportunities for socializing and discussion among residents who may be working in related businesses.

“We’re trying to build a living environment that fosters interaction with neighbors and [professional] collaboration,’’ Shen said.

“That’s really the theme of the Innovation District.’’
Click to expand...


http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...OdXNMV3Dl5NESi50K/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

I think this is a very positive initiative on the surface, but eager to hear thoughts from those who are more knowledgeable..
 
Re: Innovation District

If there is a demand for it then it will work. If not then the apartments will go unrented or they will combine two studios into a tiny 1 bed.

Not everyone needs a house.
 
Re: Innovation District

I'm glad the Globe picked up on this story and the idea sounds reasonable. But most of the research seems conceptual based on informal discussions -- not data evidenced by actual salaries, market conditions and alternatives.

The question becomes, why would an innovation economy worker -- probably 20-30 years old -- pay $1k to $1500 for 400 sf when they could take a roommate or two and live in a reasonably decent flat in Southie?

I do think the microunits will rent very successfully, more likely for luxury pied-a-terre apartments in close proximity to downtown.

As always, I think the real key to Seaport / Innovation District success is a significant amount of residential density, not gimmicks such as imposed "microunits," "artist live/work units" etc. On the "artist live/work" units, while a smattering of BRA units exist here and there, the Fort Point community did much better on its own developing a number of independently financed co-ops.
 
Re: Innovation District

I think they will be successfull too...but it's an interesting change of heart from the city and a good example of why they should stop getting their hands all over the process.

Two anecdotes:

1. A few years back when trying to develop condos the ZBA refused to allow us to permit one bedrooms smaller than 750 sf, even though smaller units are more affordable to build and rent. Despite the demand for such units, I was told we were being "piggy" by trying to squeeze more dollars out of each unit. Now the city is doing an about face on that same policy and taking credit for being "innovative".

2. I was at a breakfast about a month back at which Peter Meade was speaking. He was doing the usual song and dance about how spectacular and wonderful Boston is and how we are the envy of the world and then touched upon the groundbreaking which had recently occurred over at Vertex. The mayor, he said, had approached him and said, "well, you've only been on the job a few days, can't wait to see what you've got planned for next week!' 'No,' Meade responded,' you've done all the hard work here mister mayor!"

This self congratulatory attitude among city officials drives me nuts. The best a mayor can do is to set clear development rules and then get the f*ck out of the way. Nothing is clear in Boston. We propser in spite of our government, not because of it.
 
Re: Innovation District

Sicilian said:
I do think the microunits will rent very successfully, more likely for luxury pied-a-terre apartments in close proximity to downtown.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this same thing - I can definitely see upper-management of Vertex/Start-up renting out one of these units to use as their "crash-pad" during the week, while their "proper" residence is in the burbs.

I'm not 100% convinced that the 20-30 yr old demo is going to take to these quite as well - like you said, Southie is a short distance and is very popular amongst 20-30 somethings. However, 1 bedrooms are very difficult to come across, and not everyone wants a roommate (esp within this age group), so I could be wrong.
 
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