Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation District

JohnAKeith said:
Ugh. Don't mean to drag this out, but after the stop light on D Street, it enters a tunnel (eventually) and joins Ted Williams Tunnel traffic all the way from there under the Boston Harbor until it splits off above ground inside Logan Airport.

Is this accurate?
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Yes. The eventually is the problem.

On the way back, the bus stops at the word trader center....twice. Once above ground, once below ground.

Even though theres a direct access tunnel right by silver line way. Just sitting there, unused.
 
Re: Innovation District

jass said:
Even though theres a direct access tunnel right by silver line way. Just sitting there, unused.
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The State Police need a secret tunnel for nap time.
 
Re: Innovation District

They already have the secret driving range out there.... why not nappy rooms? Of course in my late night walk throughs of the city tunnel systems, I found plenty of GIGANTIC sleepy time areas. I should show some of those pictures to Chuck Connors up there (Rifleman), to show what his tax money built below this city. His head might explode though.
 
Re: Innovation District

Would anyone object if I was to combine this thread with the South Boston Seaport thread into a greater Waterfront/Innovation thread? I just see the two overlapping too much. Individual projects will still have their own threads.
 
Re: Innovation District

But... but... but! This is the Innovation District! NOT the Seaport! Menino says they're very distinct entities.
 
Re: Innovation District

^vanshnookraggen

I started this thread to talk specificially about "Innovation District"-related issues but you're right... I'd say go for it!
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Does anyone know where to find the FAA height restriction map?
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Leaving room to be corrected, my best recollection was that there was no single map defining flight patterns over the Seaport. With the fairly recent changes to Runway 27 flights plus wind variations, flight patterns routinely shift around.

A quote:

It’s a change that has happened without much public debate, driven mostly by behind-the-scenes edicts by the FAA.
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From a 2007 reference here. The public FAA / SB Waterfront discussion dates back as far as the late '90s.

Each project went through FAA analysis individually. Fan Pier restrictions by FAA arrived startlingly late in the planning process -- I don't think it was even referenced in the BRA Seaport Public Realm Plan of 1999 which was a prequel to the Pritzker's planning process. You can find references to Fan Pier height restrictions (~300 feet?) and Seaport Square restrictions (~250 feet?) through a Google search of the project filings at the BRA — possibly see Municipal Harbor Plan as well.

All said, my recollection is that the Seaport was maxed out at 300 feet. I think Frank McCourt came in with some heights approaching 400 feet, but that didn't move beyond conceptual stages.

As a footnote, I'm pretty sure that the proposed South Station tower at 1000 feet would be within FAA limits. That height has moved through State legislation to exempt it from Chapter 91 regs.

EDIT: Changed the part about Runway 27, where I had suggested it was new. Runway 27 is not new, but its uses changed over the past decade with the addition of Runway 14/32.
 
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

For those of you who wonder who / how to fill the SPID -- here's something from a different district of the city -- but directly relevant to this and a couple other threads related to demand for space for tech Co's

From today's Herald Business pages
http://bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1389512&position=0
Church and tech’s concrete ties
Christian Science building home to up-and-coming Hub companies
By Brendan Lynch
Monday, December 19, 2011 - Updated 10 hours ago

If technology is the new religion, then it’s found a fitting home in Boston’s Back Bay.

At the northeastern corner of Christian Science Plaza is a brutalist-style concrete tower — but rather than housing the church’s administrative workers, which it was built to do in the 1960s, it’s now home to a cluster of cutting-edge technology companies.

“From the outside, the first thing you notice is the concrete,” said Niraj Shah, CEO of e-commerce company Wayfair. “But it has these wide open, huge windows with these great views on the inside. I thought the location was great, but I wasn’t sure what it would be like on the inside. It’s been great.”

Wayfair moved to the building at 177 Huntington Ave. in 2009 from the nearby Prudential tower. The company has 700 employees on 10 floors about 90,000 square feet.

Shah said the church was offering leases that ran on the short side, until 2014, because it wasn’t sure what it would do with the property.

“That’s good for tech companies like us who are growing really fast, because you don’t really know how much space you’ll need,” he said.

.....Twenty-two of the 24 leaseable floors are occupied, Bashor said, and a 23rd is committed for the fall.

Tenants include:
Northeastern University’s IT department,
Kentucky-based energy analytics company Genscape,
search engine marketing-software company WordStream,
digital marketing firm One Pica,
online fundraising platform-maker Charity Partners
and “cloud” data-backup company Carbonite.

“It’s I.M. Pei,” said Carbonite CEO David Friend, referring to the architect of the Christian Science Plaza. “It’s one of the first buildings to use the open floor plan and exoskeleton model. If you’re into architecture, it’s a significant building.”

Carbonite moved into the building in 2009, and has about 200 employees on four, 8,000-square-foot floors.

“A lot of startups fit nicely into that floor plan,” Friend said. “And with the open floor plan, you put cubes in it and you’re ready to roll.”

Between Carboite and Wayfare -- you have 1100 tech co employees occupying (in the good sense) over 120,000 sq. ft. -- mid sized law firm equivalent

Note neither of those companies existed in 2005

GO SPID!!

Come Cranes!! Come and nest for a while!!
the soil is good and the NIMBYs are on the (dare I say it) the wain
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The SPID acronym is StuPID. It's even more obnoxiously forced and artificial than 'Innovation District'.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

whighlander said:
Come Cranes!! Come and nest for a while!!
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The tech cluster mentioned in the Herald article are tenants of a building built in the 1960's.

Similarly the tech cluster arriving in the Innovation District are tenanting existing buildings -- mostly Fort Point warehouses occupied by tenants who were rolled for slightly higher market rates.

No new construction in the ID except subsidized leases at One Marina Park Drive are tenanted by pre-IPO (small, startup, etc.) tech companies.

So Whighlander, tell me more about your plan for building new construction to house tech clusters in the Innovation District.

How is that possible if ALL new construction will be Class A office space, or on spec for a client like Vertex?

Using the words "cranes," "new construction" and "technology startups" in the same context is a mythology continually worth poking at until someone shows me a plan.

I'd suggest that young techies arriving in Fort Point will more likely be displaced in 10 years as leases escalate (guaranteed in Fort Point) and more affordable neighborhoods look attractive.

We've seen this movie before -- when Fort Point was touted by the BRA as Boston's Cultural District. That was possible as long as the cultural community and non-profits could afford existing space -- now they are largely gone save for a few co-ops.

Geographically, Kendall Square is not Fort Point or the South Boston Waterfront. Kendall Square didn't benefit from $8 billion in public investment over the past 20 years, nor did it have pressure for Class B office space from the Financial District.

Without a plan, zoning and legal framework to match all the jabbering, I'd suggest that the tech clusters will remain migratory.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sicilian said:
The tech cluster mentioned in the Herald article are tenants of a building built in the 1960's.

Similarly the tech cluster arriving in the Innovation District are tenanting existing buildings -- mostly Fort Point warehouses occupied by tenants who were rolled for slightly higher market rates.

No new construction in the ID except subsidized leases at One Marina Park Drive are tenanted by pre-IPO (small, startup, etc.) tech companies.

So Whighlander, tell me more about your plan for building new construction to house tech clusters in the Innovation District.

How is that possible if ALL new construction will be Class A office space, or on spec for a client like Vertex?

Using the words "cranes," "new construction" and "technology startups" in the same context is a mythology continually worth poking at until someone shows me a plan.


Geographically, Kendall Square is not Fort Point or the South Boston Waterfront. Kendall Square didn't benefit from $8 billion in public investment over the past 20 years, nor did it have pressure for Class B office space from the Financial District.

Without a plan, zoning and legal framework to match all the jabbering, I'd suggest that the tech clusters will remain migratory.
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Sicil -- you are starting to sound like Riffy

First -- the occupyers of the Christian Science complex are not really start-ups anymore -- when you've been playing in the big leagues for 3 or more years -- they don't call you a rookie

Second -- when you are looking for about 100,000 sq ft. --e.g. Wayfair -- you start to command the attention of developers

Third the SPID -- like the Christian Science and Kendal may have the kind of cache that the "young gazzels" look for as they start marking out their terrirory:
a) Kendall - connect to MIT
b) Christian Science the views and the Pru-area location
c) SPID -- unmatched harbor views and a place to be seen by people landing at Logan

Fourth -- you would have a hard time claiming Kendall didn't get a lot of public investment -- begin with the acquistion and clearing of the "old Kendall" for NASA; then the reconstruction of the station itself; and finally the reconstruction of the square and the surrounding road network

Fifth and Finally -- after a bunch of false starts -- the SPID may be getting its "raison d'etre" -- just like Kendall after laying fallow -- finally blosomed -- Kendall was absolutely empty for many years with an ersatz soccer field where a Billion dollars of labs exist or are being constructed -- teh SPID will take time and at least one more building cycle -- BUT come back about 2025 and we can review the status
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Show me examples of a cluster of small tech companies (not established co's leasing 100k sf) that are leasing Class A office space in new construction.

Or tell me how new office construction in the Seaport won't be Class A office space.

The rest is conjecture.

Let me add that I am 100% confident in the success of the Seaport, perhaps not reaching its full potential but still vibrant.

I'm just suggesting that there is no REAL plan for an Innovation District, with zoning and a legal framework -- or developer motivation -- to support all the conjecture.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sicilian said:
Let me add that I am 100% confident in the success of the Seaport, perhaps not reaching its full potential but still vibrant.
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The Seaport will be something, successful or not?

My personal thought:
I think it will be a place for the ULTRA Rich, Politicans,Upper management working professionals, and rich International students as a hang out close to the city.
The area will feel like a private Suburaban Office park for the rich right next to the city on the water. Nice views........
They never had a real vision for it. Fallon is just another developer who took advantage of the taxpayers like the bankers did.

McCourt, Kraft had real vision and the political hacks did not like their visions because they weren't paying off the right people.

I have to give it to McCourt to have the vision to even buy the parking lots.
 
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
McCourt, Kraft had real vision and the political hacks did not like their visions because they weren't paying off the right people.

I have to give it to McCourt to have the vision to even buy the parking lots.
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Kraft vision=football stadium. close enough. DRINK!
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

choo said:
Kraft vision=football stadium. close enough. DRINK!
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Football/Soccer Stadium, Patriots Place and possibly an entertainment mecca for Boston. Probably could justify a BCEC expansion and a complete MBTA overhaul for the entire area.
Create an new type of Football/Soccer stadium open to the public with Ice Skating Rinks in the winter.

This area would have been a MONEY MACHINE.
 
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^Tombstoner

The single largest concentration of artists in New England occupied Fort Point warehouses between 1980 and 2000. The number of artists in the district as of 2000 was approximately 600.

By 2000, Fort Point also had a tremendous concentration of cultural non-profits.

Between 1980 and 2000, the Fort Point's incorporated arts organization was negotiating a few 100k in space in negotiations directly with the Boston Wharf Co., as its single largest tenant.

In the same way you hear about support for tech clusters today, the BRA publicly recognized the value of this cultural engine (Fort Point arts community) to the City in its public Seaport Master Plan, including the Fort Point 100 Acre Plan. Fort Point was presented as Boston's new SOHO, an arts and cultural mecca.

As recent as 2005, the BRA was still presenting the SOHO vision for Fort Point.

But there was no meat on the bones to support any claims made about the long-term viability of Fort Point as an arts and cultural district.

The arts organization that was leasing 100's of 1000's of square feet in 2000 leases no space to artists today. Market rate escalated beyond affordability.

I'm suggesting that the current influx of tech companies sensitive to price may realize the same fate. Do you see lessons learned?

Not a great reference, but some flavor here.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
McCourt, Kraft had real vision and the political hacks did not like their visions because they weren't paying off the right people.
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For drinking game purposes, does this count as a stadium mention?


TheRifleman said:
Football/Soccer Stadium, Patriots Place and possibly an entertainment mecca for Boston. Probably could justify a BCEC expansion and a complete MBTA overhaul for the entire area.
Create an new type of Football/Soccer stadium open to the public with Ice Skating Rinks in the winter.

This area would have been a MONEY MACHINE.
Click to expand...

And that would be a yes, and another drink, and one more after that!
 
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