Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[Bos77]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

And that would be a yes, and another drink, and one more after that!

Whoopsie, I'm gettin drunk...

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Whoopsie, I'm gettin drunk...

Instead of getting drunk in the Seaport enjoying the ballgames we get a bunch of mad scientists cloning everything in sight.

Should be a interesting area when biohazards products spill onto the waterfront instead of the BEER.

 

[Bos77]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Should be a interesting area when biohazards products spill onto the water front.

Hey, who invited Debbie Downer to the party?

 

[Shepard]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Boston Globe editorial:

EDITORIAL
At right price, tiny apartments could fuel big hopes in Boston

DECEMBER 22, 2011


THEY MAY sound unappealing to the average Boston resident, but small, dorm-like apartments offering occupants little more than a “pod’’ bathroom, galley kitchen, and pull-out couch to sleep on could be the key to jumpstarting life in the burgeoning Innovation District - but only if these “micro-units’’ are offered at a price that’s in reach of their target tenants: young entrepreneurs and start-up employees looking to live downtown.

The developers’ current proposal, to build around 300 of the 375-square-foot micro-units and put them on the market for $1,500 a month, misses that mark. Surveys suggest that a $1,500-per-month rent is simply too expensive for one young person to cover on his or her own, and the units are too small for two to share. The city should work with developers to adjust their plans.

A study by the Cambridge Innovation Center confirmed that young people are seeking more affordable housing options downtown and are willing to live in dormitory-inspired housing arrangements to do so. That’s good news for boosters of the Innovation District, which needs more permanent residents before it can hum with life. But in that same survey, the respondents - mostly twentysomethings who work in the tech and start-up industries - said they would only be willing to pay, on average, around $1,000 per month, or $12,000 per year, for innovative housing. That’s $6,000 less per year than developers are hoping they will pay.


If the city wants its micro-unit initiative to succeed, it must press developers to drop their prices - and work with them on how best to do so. Or, if that’s not feasible, developers should focus on building tiny apartments that can accommodate two residents, so that a pair of tenants could share the space - and the $1,500 rent. That could mean introducing shared bathrooms or kitchens in order to create enough room for another bed; plenty of young college grads, accustomed to dormitory-style living, would not be put off by the shared facilities.

Developers and the city are eager to get construction underway. But they should take the time to ensure micro-units will appeal to the people they hope will soon plant themselves in the Innovation District. More than just the economic fate of the development is at stake: Boston has waited a long time for a thriving neighborhood to emerge on the South Boston Waterfront. Once the numbers are right, this is a plan that could deliver it.

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I totally agree with the Globe here...$1500 is too much. Others have said it already...for that price you get a two bed/two bath place in the South End or Southie with a roommate. $1250 is probably the most they should be hoping for in a 300 - 400 sf studio.

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I totally agree with the Globe here...$1500 is too much. Others have said it already...for that price you get a two bed/two bath place in the South End or Southie with a roommate. $1250 is probably the most they should be hoping for in a 300 - 400 sf studio.

I agree. I think $1,000 would be right, and anything more would just led to those seeking a little more space (with a roomie) looking at better value housing options.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

~$1,500 for 300-400SF studios, $1,750+ for ~600SF 1 bedrooms is what I get for my Fenway units.

My Mission Hill properties used to be around $600-800 per bedroom depending on what a money pit the places were for utilities.

This is on top of requiring renters to also purchase renters insurance as part of their lease and forbidding sublets.

Illegally sublet one of my units and you'll find the new tenants arrested for trespassing and a 'friendly' collections agent hunting you down.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

You guys are missing the point. There is a market out there for young transient professionals who don't want a roommate but also like having toys (i.e. gym, roof deck, wifi, etc) and don't mind paying for them. If you, personally, don't think it's worth it then don't buy it. But there is a large market out there. Also keep in mind that for many of these kids their parents will be fronting some-to-all of the cash and in the parents mind the extra money is worth the security.

 

[Tombstoner]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The article didn't mention amenities, but if the afore-mentioned deck, pool, wi-fi, plus library, screening room, BBQ space, party space stuff (Atlanta in-town condos have all that and more), the $1500 may be worth it. As Lurker says, $1500 for a well-located studio is not unheard of in Fenway, Back Bay and Cambridge (I paid that for a studio in Brookline when I first moved here).

 

[GW2500]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I don't think people who truely are trying to save money, would call 1500 affordable. Really its more like, affordable amenities for the trendy. 1500 can get you a lot in lively, T accesible Allston.

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

You guys are missing the point. There is a market out there for young transient professionals who don't want a roommate but also like having toys (i.e. gym, roof deck, wifi, etc) and don't mind paying for them. If you, personally, don't think it's worth it then don't buy it. But there is a large market out there. Also keep in mind that for many of these kids their parents will be fronting some-to-all of the cash and in the parents mind the extra money is worth the security.

I thought the purpose for this was for to attract and keep young, aspiring entrepreneurs with low rates so they can invest their time, money, and energy into their businesses, not the professional, career-oriented or college student crowds.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I thought the purpose for this was for to attract and keep young, aspiring entrepreneurs with low rates so they can invest their time, money, and energy into their businesses, not the professional, career-oriented or college student crowds.

I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.

 

[briv]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I agree with Oakley. The biggest challenge facing this city's future is retaining and attracting young educated people to create the new businesses and occupy those jobs. We are currently in the midst of a housing crisis in this city, where the cost of housing has increased pretty much beyond the reach of your average recent college graduate, or even young working professional. Blue collar? Forget it.

Unless the skyrocketing cost of housing here is addressed this city has a grim future. These $1500-a-month shoeboxes certainly are not the answer. Why spend that kind of money to live a bare existence here when you could live quite comfortably for much less in some other happening, young-person friendly city like Austin or Portland. Does anyone actually believe people are going to continue to pay this ridiculous premium to live here because this city is that special?

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Yes. Boston wouldn't be one of the most expensive cities to live in if it didn't have something special.

 

[briv]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I dont mean to bad mouth the city. I love Boston. But the annual double-digit percentage rate rent increases are extremely frustrating and I now find myself asking if it's really worth it anymore.

It's odd how people seem to tout the city's skyrocketing cost of living as if that's a good thing. It's like, "look how much people are spending to live here, it's gotta be super awesome!." I don't think it's necessarily a reflection of Boston's 'specialness' as much as a product of really shitty to nonexistent planning policy and absurd restrictions on new construction. You can also probably add an exploding student population to that list as well.

Regardless of its source, I dont see the high cost of living here as a positive by any measure.

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.

You need entrepreneurs to create those jobs. I understand what your saying, but you need to make Boston an affordable enough place for entrepreneurs to survive and grow.

I posted a thread on Boston's high-tech scene, which I think is starting to develop a strong ecosystem due to a number of factors, but the cost of living might deter a lot of out-of-state talent from coming. Silicon Valley and New York are expensive, but they have very strong, well-established ecosystems, without the conservative, New England way of thinking, that Boston struggles with.

I would love to come to Boston as a financially-limited start-up entrepreneur, but the cost to live in the area can deter a lot of people, myself included. When you start-up a tech company, you usually offer your initial members with equity, not big salaries. In the long-term, the metro area may be missing out a lot of hits in terms of success, along with long-term potential job and wealth creation.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

You need entrepreneurs to create those jobs. I understand what your saying, but you need to make Boston an affordable enough place for entrepreneurs to survive and grow.

I posted a thread on Boston's high-tech scene, which I think is starting to develop a strong ecosystem due to a number of factors, but the cost of living might deter a lot of out-of-state talent from coming. Silicon Valley and New York are expensive, but they have very strong, well-established ecosystems, without the conservative, New England way of thinking, that Boston struggles with.

I would love to come to Boston as a financially-limited start-up entrepreneur, but the cost to live in the area can deter a lot of people, myself included. When you start-up a tech company, you usually offer your initial members with equity, not big salaries. In the long-term, the metro area may be missing out a lot of hits in terms of success, along with long-term potential job and wealth creation.

We are rehashing a lot of previous discussion -- here's a very brief summary:

Boston Pros:

1) Incomparable technical environment led by MIT -- I don't say this casually -- I have an advanced technical degree and have traveled to essentially all the top tech places on the planet

2) Tradition of innovation and entrepreneurship going back to the China Trade and such in the late 1700's

3) world class cultural resources (e.g. BSO, MFA, MOS)

4) opportunity for life long learning with the best and brightest

5) Manageable-scale city with a pleasant mix of historic and modern architecture, public amenities (e.g. Esplanade, Emerald Necklace)

6) Technical, financial, business support infrastructure on par with the global best

7) tradition of devotion to hard work and differed gratification

8) good local, regional, national and international transportation access

Cons:

1) Climate is not real pleasant for 3 to 4 months of the year -- not clear any given year which 4 months

2) Too much government interference -- too much government spending, taxing, regulating

3) Expensive energy

4) Expensive food during the non-local season

5) Lousy Public Schools -- no place in the Central and several peripheral Cores to raise children without large investment in private education

6) cost of housing both in the Central and other Cores due in-part to policy


The result is that a lot of the kids who come here for an education end up leaving (typically in their mid twenties) -- a lot of them or similar substitutes return in their late 40's as people in senior positions when $ become less a concern

BUT we are losing-out on the young typically just starting family types in their 30's -- they have trouble living and raising a family without having to undertake very long commutes (e.g. from NH)

I'm convinced that the most impactfullsily and fixable problem (in principle) is the public schools -- get the cost of a private education out of the equation and lots more young professional couples can and will live in the Cam/Bos Core

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

You need entrepreneurs to create those jobs. I understand what your saying, but you need to make Boston an affordable enough place for entrepreneurs to survive and grow.

I posted a thread on Boston's high-tech scene, which I think is starting to develop a strong ecosystem due to a number of factors, but the cost of living might deter a lot of out-of-state talent from coming. Silicon Valley and New York are expensive, but they have very strong, well-established ecosystems, without the conservative, New England way of thinking, that Boston struggles with.

I would love to come to Boston as a financially-limited start-up entrepreneur, but the cost to live in the area can deter a lot of people, myself included. When you start-up a tech company, you usually offer your initial members with equity, not big salaries. In the long-term, the metro area may be missing out a lot of hits in terms of success, along with long-term potential job and wealth creation.

I'm interested in REAL ideas, not gimmicks. What do you mean by:

"... they have very strong, well-established ecosystems, without the conservative, New England way of thinking, that Boston struggles with."

Can you describe the ecosystem and what makes it tick? Are there lessons here?

 

[Lurker]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Housing in Boston is not expensive compared to housing in other cities like NYC. There is plenty of affordable housing in Boston, it is unfortunately located in neighborhoods dominated by slumlords renting to college students or in formerly nice neighborhoods overrun with gang activity.

Brighton was and should be a solidly middle class neighborhood, but BU and a few large landholders have turned it into a defacto dormitory ghetto. Large swathes of Roxbury, Dorchester, and Mattapan would be desirable housing stock for people starting out if it weren't for the somewhat deserved reputation as being dangerous. It also doesn't help that dense parts of the city kept getting obliterated for highways, government buildings, suburban parks, and lower density housing projects in the past half century. The BRA's insistence on squat buildings and mandatory parking ratios has also stifled high density mid-rise construction which the city DESPERATELY needs. Very few of these projects have been built which aren't some sort of subsidized housing, which is useless to recent graduates.

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I'm interested in REAL ideas, not gimmicks. What do you mean by:

"... they have very strong, well-established ecosystems, without the conservative, New England way of thinking, that Boston struggles with."

Can you describe the ecosystem and what makes it tick? Are there lessons here?

Here is a good article (with a follow-up one):

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...next-google/O90EMAerdirqGTVTQQOifL/story.html

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/innoeco/2011/12/building_more_pillar_companies.html