Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[Sicilian]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

...anyone who thinks that residential development in the Seaport is stalled has been living under a rock...

HUH?

Pier IV has been approved and announced multiple times over the past 10 years. Guys like you pop up each year to toast the BRA for approving the same project year after year. I gave up keeping track of which parcel was residential 5 years ago since it switches around like wack-a-mole.

Same goes for Seaport Square. Final approval for residential construction has been announced multiple times on multiple sites over the past 5 years. Do you see any shovels?

Same goes for the project you cited in Fort Point. It's been approved, re-approved and re-approved for three years now. I heard a Notice of Project Change was filed two weeks ago, only a month after the last BRA "final approval."

As for this particular project, you stated...

...a company from Portland is starting construction on 250 units in Fort Point in a couple months.

WAH?

Construction starts in a few months?

Oops. Theres a building on the site that has to come down first. Tell me more about the current schedule for demolition. Permits pulled yet?

When you disappear in the breeze, the developer will no doubt file another Notice of Project Change, the BRA will approve it, re-announce it, and another guy like you will pop up to toast the BRA again.

You want to bet Pier IV goes through a few more Notice of Project Change filings and re-approvals before a shovel goes in?

Anyhow greenwayguy1982, how about you name the last residential approval on the SB Waterfront or Fort Point over the past decade that the BRA approved that actually got built. HINT: You'll need to go back a few years before the recession of 2008.

EDIT: Last paragraph, note to greenwayguy1982

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

YOU COULD HAVE SAID THAT IN A NICER WAY.

 

[blade_bltz]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Boston should be a world class city. When people talk about Silicon Valley . Do people realize that the most powerful companies were created in MASS.
MSFT & Facebook founders both created their companies while going to school at Harvard. They could not leave this state fast enough for the West Coast. I believe Mass has the higher education going for itself but the Politics chase out the Dreamers to make a better environment somewhere else.

I see. So, Politics with a capital P in fact has nothing to do with politics at all.

 

[greenwayguy1982]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sicilian, you're making my point perfectly. My point is simply that the "Politics" that Rifleman and others on this thread like to blame "stalled development" on actually has nothing to do with stalling development and that they should lay off the political conspiracy theories. Just like you said, the BRA approved (and in cases, re-approved) various residential developments all over the waterfront. If they're not moving forward, the global economic recession is to blame, not "Politics." Oh and the NPC you're referring to for 319A Rear isn't for 319A Rear, or 63 Melcher. It's for another building still owned by your favorite landlord so please confirm your facts before posting.

 

[greenwayguy1982]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Large swaths of Washington Street, Winter Street, Bromfield Street storefronts are vacant. Tremont Street across from the Common doesn't look so great either, except for Emerson College's properties. Have you taken a walk around there lately?

Ron, a few streets does not a downtown make. Not every street in a city can look like Newbury Street, and I certainly don't see how the plight of the few streets you mention (which I don't disagree with) has anything to do with the "political gaming" that was blamed for downtown's general run-downedness according to a previous poster.....for example, you mention Bromfield Street. As you know, the corner of Bromfield and Washington is the subject of a major tower proposal by a firm that owns the entire block...which has been stalled because the principal in the development firm making the proposal died suddenly last year. Is that project stalled because of "political gaming?"

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

YOU COULD HAVE SAID THAT IN A NICER WAY.

You're right, John.

Sorry for the tone GreenwayGuy. Just sensitive to these kind of remarks and also recalling similar past conversations about the Harborpark Plan.

As for my facts, I am standing by them. You stated "250 units," were "starting construction in a few months" by a Portland firm. The only project on that scale (over 200 units, Portland Company) is 319 A Street / 63 Melcher Street and it is being developed by Archon & Gerding Edlin (of Portland). It's actually just over 200 units. That has been approved and reapproved multiple times. The only other residential project moving forward (likely completed in 2012) is 381 Congress -- that's 44 units, of which 16 are exec stay hotel.

So I'm not clear what 250 unit Fort Point project you are referring to being developed by a Portland company. And certainly not one "starting construction in a few months."

I received a notice from the BRA's Impact Advisory Group that an NPC has just been filed for 319 A Street Rear. Again, not sure what facts you think I have wrong here.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sicilian, you're making my point perfectly. My point is simply that the "Politics" that Rifleman and others on this thread like to blame "stalled development" on actually has nothing to do with stalling development and that they should lay off the political conspiracy theories.

So instead of taking responsibility for how the BRA planned the entire DTX area they blame it on the business's that were successful by implementing a new tax called BID. Why would the Politicans do that to these companies instead of helping them expand their business so they can help generate more tax revenue for the city?

Instead of just paying regular taxes you have to pay into BID? What is BID and what does it actually cover?

Its all politics that has kept this city from really growing.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Sicilian, you're making my point perfectly. My point is simply that the "Politics" that Rifleman and others on this thread like to blame "stalled development" on actually has nothing to do with stalling development and that they should lay off the political conspiracy theories. Just like you said, the BRA approved (and in cases, re-approved) various residential developments all over the waterfront. If they're not moving forward, the global economic recession is to blame, not "Politics." Oh and the NPC you're referring to for 319A Rear isn't for 319A Rear, or 63 Melcher. It's for another building still owned by your favorite landlord so please confirm your facts before posting.

I see your point, and agree that the recession has hit hard, but I think most folks on this thread would agree that politics has played a huge role in the development of the Waterfront -- a sea of parking lots through up and down economic times.

Even during these past few years, the BRA has played games with residential development. The BRA has increased development cost of housing by requiring the unit type du jour (artist live/work, microunit, BRA-qualified affordable) regardless of what the market itself was demanding or what types of housing the developers would like to produce. The BRA tacks on a laundry list of costs to housing development -- even signal lights a half-mile away from a project is being funded by one developer, not to mention the BRA's own budget which (I'm pretty sure) comes from fees paid for each project.

For you to suggest the residential market has not been stalled, it is just natural market forces operating on the waterfront, is belied by the facts.

Let me add that the reason I bristle at re-approvals is that the BRA has been capitalizing on PR over the years that it is building a significant density of residential units on the Seaport. That is what the perception is. If the developers are going to file 3 or 4 NPC's before putting a shovel in the ground, I'd suggest the BRA hold off on the marching band for each approved NPC. Residents in Brookline think the Seaport is well under way while only one major building (One Marina Park Drive) has been built -- this is due to BRA and Boston Globe's partnership in trumpeting approvals for unbuildable projects.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I guess the BRA and the city couldn't figure out how to get the development rolling before the recession we only had the biggest real estate bubble in history in 2000's. So let's blame it on the 2008 recession as the politicians bailed out the banks in the trillions then our federal govt issued hundreds of billions in stimulus money. see Fan Pier development

It's all politics.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

This isn't the Downtown Crossing thread, but since you brought the subject up ... sure, Washington, Winter, and Bromfield aren't the whole downtown, but they are the heart of the retail district ... and they look terrible.

 

[bolehboleh]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Will this help everyone get back on topic...pics from yesterday

I was standing on a pier near Maverick...it's a shame nothing's been developed in Eastie yet.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^^^

Maverick Station in EastBoston some of the Best views of the city.

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I think California may be the worst offender when it comes to politics, and particularly the Bay Area (San Francisco makes Boston look like a unregulated wild west), when it comes to politics. Which is why I think companies are expanding their operations in more business-friendly states.

What makes Silicon Valley tick is the ecosystem, a system that doesn't have that the conservative, "old-money", Bostonian mindset. Risks are supported.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Doesn't DC have a large college student body base as well? I know it's not Boston, but it's a good size demographic population.

If Boston is going to compete in the start-up, and maintain them as they grow, they need to figure out a way to make the cost of living attractive enough. It isn't just competing with Silicon Valley or New York City anymore, you're competing with the rest of the country, and the world.

Oak -- wel said

The resr of you are mostly too young or haven't read much history and / or don't know much about what the differnt types of entrepreneurs are and need

in the following I'm referring to the Metro Area unless otherwise specified

1st: Boston is World Class -- not as large as the giant cities but just as important in:
Finance
Educaion
Medecine
High Tech

2nd: The primary competetion is with about 20 Global Cities of comparable size (5 M in the economic infleunce region)

3rd: Much of the new development for the kinds of industry which Boston is good at:
technology centric
knowledge centric
mostly low volume production -- if physical objecs
mostly not enegy intensive
mostly not natual resouce intensive
dominated by a highly educated very well compensated small size workforce (both pay and stock optiions, etc)

New development for the newer industries is splitting itself goegraoically and you could say demographically into the outer, middle and inner core:

a) ex-urban campus (e.g. IBM, Cisco out on I-495)
b) central core (e.g. Novartis, Pfizer, Microsoft, Google)
c) there are only a few in the middle sittig on a suburban campus which was pre-existing (e.g. fromer Raytheon now Shire in Lexington, and paradoxically Raytheon on the former Polaroid site in Waltham)

Meanwhile Boston remains a place with restrictive zoning, massive excessive govenmental interference and some really picturesque old harbor views

Given current demographic trends i.e. barely growing net population - the balancing act for the politicians is to continue to attract what wants to be here naturally without losing their voters faster than they can be replaced by new voters - but the process is definitely happening -- no one seriously talks of bringing back shores, or garment district sweat shops and automation of clerical tasks is reducing the need for back-office "piink collar" and lower priced 'white collar" -- the only blue collars to remain are in construction, building maintenance, retail, logistics and government

Times they is a changin - Happy New Year

PS: Boston because of its preminence in Universities is leading this transformation just as it led many of the previous transfomations in the past 400 years

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I think California may be the worst offender when it comes to politics, and particularly the Bay Area (San Francisco makes Boston look like a unregulated wild west), when it comes to politics. Which is why I think companies are expanding their operations in more business-friendly states.

What makes Silicon Valley tick is the ecosystem, a system that doesn't have that the conservative, "old-money", Bostonian mindset. Risks are supported.

oak -- have you been drinkng riffs punch -- you were doing so well until you bought the old line about SV versus Hub

The ecosystem as you call it was invented here -- entrepreneurship and risk taking are in the local DNA -- the whole history is of innovation -- litterally thousands of examples from household items (e.g razers) to sophisticated financal concepts (e.g mutual funds), medical, education, etc.

What the Hub has lacked is the native high profile west coast-style start-up consumer company such Apple, Microsoft, Google or Facebook -- but for every innovation by one of those there are many ohers by others -- by the time the 'Names" make the press they are mostly buyers of other's innovation --- made by small mostly anonomous start-ups and young (e.g. 3 to 5 year old companies)

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

More housing for the SPID
http://bostonherald.com/business/re...ear_convention_center/srvc=home&position=also

Boston developer plans housing near convention center

By Greg Turner
Friday, December 30, 2011 - Added 2 days ago
Cresset Development has filed plans for a pair of buildings with 197 residential units and ground-floor retail at 411 D St. in South Boston, city planners announced today.

The $60 million, 200,000-square-foot project will replace a two-story warehouse located near the convention center and Westin Waterfront Hotel.

The existing two-story property, which Hub-based Cresset bought earlier this year for $7.3 million, used to house the headquarters of commercial printing company Bowne Inc."

It even includes some "Innovation Housing"

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

A pot pouri of SPID related development stuff

Cresset Development 197 residential units 411 D St. South Boston

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...72lEWD_EuCUr_cF4w&sig2=Ql0YdShQusI-q_P-npYY5w


Transatlantic Cities Forum on
Waterfront Development
City Presentation: Boston
Lowell L. Richards III
Chief Development Officer, Massachusetts Port Authority,
Boston, MA
Edward G. Nardi
President, Cresset Development, Boston, MA

This presentation has some excellent photos of Fan Pier and the related area when it was an industrial complex filled with rail cargo tracks, etc and some later photos when it was a wasteland of parking and some warehouses

Great perspective on the evolution of the area envisioned over 50 years (1980 - 2030)



http://www.boston.com/Boston/busine...nge-project/4XU6zNkYSynsGztqMYFkJP/index.html

Daniel Johnson to lead $69 million American Seafood Exchange Project
12/28/2011 10:16 AM
By D.C. Denison, Globe Staff

Daniel Johnson of IN-SITE LLC, Project Advisory will serve as project director for the American Seafood Exchange, a $69 million project planned for Boston’s Seaport District, the company announced today.

Johnson, who has overseen numerous large-scale industrial projects, will guide the seafood processing and distribution center from its current stage – planning and permitting – through its opening. He will lead the project team through all aspects of the development process, including market analysis, design and construction, and final tenant lease agreements.

In March of 2011, the Boston Redevelopment Authority approved the tentative designation of American Seafood Exchange’s project for parcels M & N of its Marine Industrial Park at 3 Dolphin Way. The 422,000-square-foot seafood processing and cold storage facility is expected to revitalize Boston’s seafood processing industry and re-establish the city as a working port. American Seafood Exchange will include a public display auction, public cold storage, fresh transfer and public packing houses and retail space in close proximity to Logan International Airport, Conley Cargo Terminal and the interstate highway system,"

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

"Welcome to the Innovation District, your home AND fresh seafood to the trade district!"

 

[Oakley]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

oak -- have you been drinkng riffs punch -- you were doing so well until you bought the old line about SV versus Hub

The ecosystem as you call it was invented here -- entrepreneurship and risk taking are in the local DNA -- the whole history is of innovation -- litterally thousands of examples from household items (e.g razers) to sophisticated financal concepts (e.g mutual funds), medical, education, etc.

What the Hub has lacked is the native high profile west coast-style start-up consumer company such Apple, Microsoft, Google or Facebook -- but for every innovation by one of those there are many ohers by others -- by the time the 'Names" make the press they are mostly buyers of other's innovation --- made by small mostly anonomous start-ups and young (e.g. 3 to 5 year old companies)

Boston lacks the investment and support environment that Silicon Valley and New York City has, particularly on the angel front. It has gotten much better in the last 5 years or so, and I think it will improve even more as the number of start-ups increase (and succeed). Angel investors need to make decisions, and write the checks, quickly into new ideas.

A lot of start-ups in Boston tend to relocate out west, thought hopefully that slows down in the future.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Boston lacks the investment and support environment that Silicon Valley and New York City has, particularly on the angel front. It has gotten much better in the last 5 years or so, and I think it will improve even more as the number of start-ups increase (and succeed). Angel investors need to make decisions, and write the checks, quickly into new ideas.

A lot of start-ups in Boston tend to relocate out west, thought hopefully that slows down in the future.

Oak -- are you speaking from experience or press

If from experience yours is different from mine if from press you are deluded by the Silicon Valley PR machine

Boston invented the VC and Angel approach to Entrepreneurship hundreds of years ago -- these built the great shipping trade of the 18th / 19th and the textile, shoe industry of the 19th / 20th (pre war) and then the process was re-invented in the 1950's that built DEC and the minicomputer industry

What almost never happened here was the company that grew big based on advertising to the general public as its primary or "virtual customers" (major exception was Gillette and the "World Shaving HQ"0 -- these (consumer tech) kind of companies have grown into some mega successes that predominate on the west coast in SV and Seattle

The common ingredient of most of the West Coast-style companies is relative de-emphasis on core technology (Intel and the other original HW-oriented SV companies connected to Stanford and lesser extent U Cal Berkeley excluded) and a major focus of soft technology (GUI) and in aesthetics (Apple) and / or mass-end-user features (Facebook, Apple, Microsoft)

Case in point -- DEC which was built to sell to big companies, government agencies and public / private institutions:
1) developed the core of OS technology (VMS / Ultrix) acquired by MS (NT)
2) developed the fast low power core HW chip technology (Alpha) acquirement by Intel (Itanium and the later Pentium cores)
3) and DEC even out manufactured Intel even in semiconductors in Hudson (since acquired and used very productively by Intel)
4) what DEC and most of our companies failed at was marketing (particularly to the small customers) and figuring how to transition customers to new products (Intel's planned obsolesce aka selling Moore's Law)

Recognizing the nature of the SV / Rt-128 dichotomy -- many successful West Coast and others have come to Rt-128 for help with technology and to have access to people with strong technical backgrounds:
Intel
Microsoft
Sun -- now Oracle
Oracle itself
Google
IBM
Cisco

Now we have begun to attract the rest of the world -- many in Bio/Pharma who recognize the value proposition of the core tech and tech people located here and who can be attracted to come here -- many buy in -- ut others such as Novartis just launch themselves as mega start-ups:
Nokia,
Siemens
Philips
Novartis
Shire
AstraZeneca
Schlumberger
Mitsubishi
Dassault Systèmes
Sanofi-Aventis (Genzyme)
Merck KGaA (EMD Serono, EMD Millipore)
Takeda Oncology Company (Millennium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.)
Saint Gobain (Norton)
Alcatel-Lucent


As for New York:
the Cornell / Albany / Hudson Valley (IBM) axis has some good technology -- particularly in the nano area
NYC has only marketing / PR and real soft tech fluff to offer -- that's why the NYC gov is trying to attract some university with the tech status of MIT / Stanford to build in the City